Rand's Arc (Full Spoilers)

[CanUFeelTheLove?]

As suttree said, they're connected by being the Creator and the DO's number one guys. They've also been connected since Moridin and Rand both launched a stream of balefire in Shadar Logoth. That's why Moridin has been hiding his hand behind his back since Rand lost his, etc. Their personalities even changed since then. First Rand went Dark - that started right after the Shadar Logoth scene and then Moridin went a bit softer than usual. 

[Heronz]

1) interesting tibit: Not all of mashadar is killed right? there is that bit AND the DO poison still in Rand's old body. And i bet you the fire doesnt destroy those evils.

 

2) "Bareback would have to do." - pg(bottom)905 AMOL

 

so we know what Rand will do next...

[Ryan52]

I am the eclectic reader type, especially in regards to things philosophical or theological, and came across this randomly during the past week that concerns Gnostic beliefs; it made me look at this series in a whole new light.  I know RJ was a Mason and there has always been talk about the higher secrets of the Masonic Order containing similar beliefs to this,  it parallels Rand's story too closely to be coincidence.  If you take a lot of RJ's more cryptic answers about major things such as the conditions of victory for the Dark One or the nature of the universe they make a lot of sense from this perspective.     http://www.theforbiddenreligion.com/diagram.htm    

 

It certainly explains a lot of the imagery and ties between Lucifer and Rand.  It also makes a lot of sense of why the DO has such a penchant for referring to Rand as Adversary among other things he/it does, and why the Shadow approaches Rand like it does that seem puzzling at times.  The last couple chapters also talk about the White and Black Lodges, which mirror the White and Black Tower themes respectively to a deep degree on numerous levels.  I was not looking for Wheel of Time stuff at all when I found this but it was all I could think about once I started reading it.  It is a bit of a long read but if you are a big enough fan of this series to read it, re-read it, and then discuss and argue on the internet about it then it should be right up your alley.  There were a million other comparisons and parallels to both obvious and subtle degrees I found reading it, I would like to hear somebody else's take on it without biasing their opinion too much.  I know at least a couple people here have to be game. 

[wRAR]

Body Switch Theory - right before Alanna dies, she releases the Warder bond.  Right after that, Moridin stabs his own hand to hurt Rand.  My theory is she somehow passed her warder bond to Moridin and that's how the two of them were linked together - we've explored throughout the series women bonding men and vice versa, women with women (elayne and birgitte) and extensively two people bonding each other, but never a man bonded to another man who can channel, both of whom can channel, and the effect of that.

 

Perhaps they were linked in a way that allowed them to both feel one another (so what one felt, the other felt) and also allowed for the body switch - thoughts?

They were linked since Shadar Logoth including shared pain.

[flinn]

 

Body Switch Theory - right before Alanna dies, she releases the Warder bond.  Right after that, Moridin stabs his own hand to hurt Rand.  My theory is she somehow passed her warder bond to Moridin and that's how the two of them were linked together - we've explored throughout the series women bonding men and vice versa, women with women (elayne and birgitte) and extensively two people bonding each other, but never a man bonded to another man who can channel, both of whom can channel, and the effect of that.

 

Perhaps they were linked in a way that allowed them to both feel one another (so what one felt, the other felt) and also allowed for the body switch - thoughts?

They were linked since Shadar Logoth including shared pain.

I am not sure how people missed this, but it sure seems that they did. It was alluded to several times throughout the series.

[Guest Xeena]

I like Rand and the 3 women he loves, but wonder about his finding Ilyena reborn in the future.  Rand is still very young and Lews Therin did not meet Ilyena until he was older because he had relationships before.  I also wonder how many children and generations of children Lews Therin must have had since he was older when he killed everyone of his blood.  

[vicegod]

Hello, long time reader here (since1997) and I've stopped in here a few times before, but I have a question that may have been addressed, but I don't see it, so here it is: Why is Rand's body burned? Every other death ritual in this world is done through burial unless I'm missing something. When did cremation come into the picture? Obviously this was written by RJ and therefore his intention, but it seems like a strange thing to suddenly bring in. Not a huge complaint, I loved the ending, but weird, huh?

[JTmin5]

I would like to make a thread of this statement/question but the forum wont let me.  I dont eve post so I am not sure why I cant start a topic but eh whatver.

 

So at the end Rand miraculously gets transfered into Moridin's old body.  This is all fine and dandy, but now he can't channel.   I know the pattern will bend to his will since he can light his own tabac by thinking about it, but whats the deal there?  I thought channeling was a thing of the "soul" and not the body.  All I can think is he was burned out when he resealed the bore.  Any thoughts?

[Asha'man Steve]

I would like to make a thread of this statement/question but the forum wont let me.  I dont eve post so I am not sure why I cant start a topic but eh whatver.

 

So at the end Rand miraculously gets transfered into Moridin's old body.  This is all fine and dandy, but now he can't channel.   I know the pattern will bend to his will since he can light his own tabac by thinking about it, but whats the deal there?  I thought channeling was a thing of the "soul" and not the body.  All I can think is he was burned out when he resealed the bore.  Any thoughts?

That seems to be the running theory, that he burned himself out sealing the bore (though he was in a link) you'd think he would have burned out either of the girls or moridin, but hey, who knows. Him bending reality around him is probably from his understanding of the pattern and universe from when he was fighting the DO weaving possible futures without the DO, he knows how the pattern works so he can bend it like Perrin or Egwene could Tel'aran'riod 

[XXX]

I like to go with the other theory on the forums. That Rand can now touch the true source so does not need Saiden or Saidar.Basically the OP is used to mainipulate the pattern using the 5 elements.If you do not need the tool which is Saidin or Saidar and can directly touch the true source then what is the point of having ability to use OP?

[avernite]

Maybe the Aiel have the right of it; life really is just a dream (after all, the dreamworld can be pulled into the world by the horn, Perrin can hop between the two...), and Rand is now aware enough to do it.

 

Alternatively, we know Birgitte managed to hang around a bit after the battle. Maybe this is just Rand-the-hero hanging out (which might also explain why he needs to be tied to the horn... while Mat and possibly Perrin aren't: none of them are called up by the horn into the last battle, but Rand has use for a tie to it afterwards). We never saw any chanelling from any other Hero, that I know, but they could make things 'happen'.

[Torome]

I think I have figured out who Nakomi is!  She is the last Champion of the Light!  She was able to light the fire in the Waste without weaves-similar to Rand after TG...  when she appeared to Avi she was middle-aged, but to Rand she was very old!  Perhaps because now that Rand has taken her place she can die?

 

Also, who else would understand what to do with the body swap.  Who said the Champion of the Light has to be a man every time; and even if the champ was a man everytime, the body taken afterwards does not necessarily have to be male.  As for looking Aiel, perhaps she(in that body) is also an Aiel ancestor, going back to the previous Third Age. 

 

This is all stuff that I came up with about 5 minutes ago in the shower.

[wRAR]

Who said the Champion of the Light has to be a man every time

 

RJ.

[Torome]

Okay, I missed him sayin that, but I still covered my backend with what immediately followed!

[Guest B_art]

I finished the book a few days ago and while I initially was somewhat disappointed with Rand's battle with the DO and the epilogue in which he just rides away from everyone (and I notice it ticked off more readers), the ending has grown on me for different reasons.

 

First of all, while the boyish part of me would have liked Rand's fight to end with a big bang (e.g. The battle with Ishamael at the end of TGH), it was always gonna be a stretch to fight the DO in a duel and the phylosophical mind games probably did more justice to the overarching theme of the book (which has been discussed in lenght already). The scene which, to me, added the most to understanding the role of the DO throughout the series was Lanfear's final scene with Perrin. Here is the woman who was responsible for creating the Bore in the first place and at the end of it, she attempted to put herself in the position where she could doom the entire world in favour of her gaining absolute power. This is what I understood in Rand's final scene with the DO where he says that the DO never was the enemy. The DO is just an entity outside of the pattern, attempting to corrupt the mind of people by promising them powers beyond belief. Real evil is done by those people who get their character corrupted by this promise and in a way, at the end of the series Lanfear is probably the embodiment of evil more than the DO.

 

Secondly, I too was not entirely satisfied with the way Rand's treatment to his 3 women was discribed in his final scene. But then again, their relationship has always been somewhat bizarre throughout the books. Prior to AMoL, the only time Rand had spent any significant amount of time with Elayne (apart from that one night in Caemlin) was the beginning of book 4. Similar to Aviendha, who disappeared from Rand's side after book 5. Only Min had much screentime with Rand in later books. Furthermore, I find 2 scenes from AMoL helpful in framing Rand's behaviour. First, when Aviendha comes to Rand's tent in Merilor, he asks her whether the girls had decided who came to him and his response is somewhat like "Light, I will never get to choose, will I?" This already seems to foreshadow that the women will decide how and when to meet him again. And then there is a second scene with Aviendha, when they stand shoulder to shoulder, looking towards Shayol Ghul. She describes how they don't lay their arms over each other's shoulder because she doesn't belong to him and he doesn't belong to her. But the fact of looking in the same direction is far more meaningful. I think that further describes the relationship they have, of being still independent. Loving each other, but not being possessive.

 

On another note, the scene should also be seen from a purely literary POV. The way Rand looks at his three women and how to handle the situation is reminiscent of the early books, when he would be complaining that he did not understand women as well as Mat or Perrin. In the epilogue we then come full circle again and Rand, just Rand, is again that somewhat naive adolescent boy that does not fully understand how three women can really be in love with him. It shows how he went from sheepherder to lord to Dragon Reborn to saviour of the world and again to sheepherder.

 

Anyway, that's my take on it. Sorry for the rambling. Oh yeah, and one final thought, in the end Rand did have the body of Moridin, so I could understand it would not be so convenient to walk in on his own funeral, he might have been balefired without being able to say a single thing.

[Jtric]

Ok, more about the pipe finish here. I know Sanderson has said RJ didn't explain how Rand lit the pipe at the end of the book, and I accept that, but I was wondering if Rand did anything himself at all. Is it possible Elayne or Aviendha feel his desire for a smoke and light his pipe with the one power?

 

I truly hope this is not the case, but I haven't seen anything saying otherwise. I would hope Sanderson could at least clarify this possibility unless I'm missing something.

 

Jtric

[Entreri]

Rand can manipulate the Pattern at will.  His children with Aviendha indicates that even they have some special powers.  

 

Like I said a couple of years ago, after Dragonmount, Rand has moved well beyond LTT. Another impossible thing he could do was break a shield created by 13, as Egwene knew he could do this in ToM. 

 

In FoH, the author said if LTT has taken over, Rand would have beaten Lanfear. This is a Rand who is nowhere near full strength.

In LoC, he was easily shielded by a circle of 13, even with that angreal. 

AMOL, a full circle (implied to be 72), he overcame with the same angreal.  "At least three dozen Dreadlords" attacking him with shields.  "Light that had to be a full circle".  It would make no sense for Taim to use merely 13, given he had so many channelers. "Full circle", same reference Egwene states about Demandred.

 

Finally, he uses enough Power to be able to destroy the Creator or Shai'tan. He has moved beyond a mortal man.  

[The_Underage_Asha'man]

 

I would like to make a thread of this statement/question but the forum wont let me.  I dont eve post so I am not sure why I cant start a topic but eh whatver.

 

So at the end Rand miraculously gets transfered into Moridin's old body.  This is all fine and dandy, but now he can't channel.   I know the pattern will bend to his will since he can light his own tabac by thinking about it, but whats the deal there?  I thought channeling was a thing of the "soul" and not the body.  All I can think is he was burned out when he resealed the bore.  Any thoughts?

That seems to be the running theory, that he burned himself out sealing the bore (though he was in a link) you'd think he would have burned out either of the girls or moridin, but hey, who knows. Him bending reality around him is probably from his understanding of the pattern and universe from when he was fighting the DO weaving possible futures without the DO, he knows how the pattern works so he can bend it like Perrin or Egwene could Tel'aran'riod 

So if somebody's "soul" is burned out so that it can no longer channel the One Power, does that cross over into their next life? I know LTT took in more power than he was able to hold, but he didn't neccessarily burn himself out, he just died.

[Agitel]

 

 

I would like to make a thread of this statement/question but the forum wont let me.  I dont eve post so I am not sure why I cant start a topic but eh whatver.

 

So at the end Rand miraculously gets transfered into Moridin's old body.  This is all fine and dandy, but now he can't channel.   I know the pattern will bend to his will since he can light his own tabac by thinking about it, but whats the deal there?  I thought channeling was a thing of the "soul" and not the body.  All I can think is he was burned out when he resealed the bore.  Any thoughts?

That seems to be the running theory, that he burned himself out sealing the bore (though he was in a link) you'd think he would have burned out either of the girls or moridin, but hey, who knows. Him bending reality around him is probably from his understanding of the pattern and universe from when he was fighting the DO weaving possible futures without the DO, he knows how the pattern works so he can bend it like Perrin or Egwene could Tel'aran'riod 

So if somebody's "soul" is burned out so that it can no longer channel the One Power, does that cross over into their next life? I know LTT took in more power than he was able to hold, but he didn't neccessarily burn himself out, he just died.

 

RJ was somewhat inconsistent with his descriptions. On one part, channeling is an inherited trait. That's made quite clear. On the other, it's the soul. My understanding of burning out and severing is that it's connected to the body. Actually, another thought just occurred to me. There exists a bridge between a soul and the True Source, a bridge that crosses between the body the soul is in and a place outside the Pattern. I'd imagine that bridge would be fixed when the person is reborn, when their soul passes out and then is later spun back in.

 

Either way, I don't see it as something that carries over into the next life.

[wRAR]

Ok, more about the pipe finish here. I know Sanderson has said RJ didn't explain how Rand lit the pipe at the end of the book, and I accept that, but I was wondering if Rand did anything himself at all. Is it possible Elayne or Aviendha feel his desire for a smoke and light his pipe with the one power?

 

I truly hope this is not the case, but I haven't seen anything saying otherwise. I would hope Sanderson could at least clarify this possibility unless I'm missing something.

 

Jtric

Other women could sense that.

[XXX]

Ok, more about the pipe finish here. I know Sanderson has said RJ didn't explain how Rand lit the pipe at the end of the book, and I accept that, but I was wondering if Rand did anything himself at all. Is it possible Elayne or Aviendha feel his desire for a smoke and light his pipe with the one power?

 

I truly hope this is not the case, but I haven't seen anything saying otherwise. I would hope Sanderson could at least clarify this possibility unless I'm missing something.

 

Jtric

 

The bond does not work like that.They cannot sense that he needs a light unless he was absolutely panicked about the need for a light!!

 

The double bond on the other hand I think can work telepathically.

[XXX]

Rand can manipulate the Pattern at will.  His children with Aviendha indicates that even they have some special powers.  

 

Like I said a couple of years ago, after Dragonmount, Rand has moved well beyond LTT. Another impossible thing he could do was break a shield created by 13, as Egwene knew he could do this in ToM. 

 

In FoH, the author said if LTT has taken over, Rand would have beaten Lanfear. This is a Rand who is nowhere near full strength.

In LoC, he was easily shielded by a circle of 13, even with that angreal. 

AMOL, a full circle (implied to be 72), he overcame with the same angreal.  "At least three dozen Dreadlords" attacking him with shields.  "Light that had to be a full circle".  It would make no sense for Taim to use merely 13, given he had so many channelers. "Full circle", same reference Egwene states about Demandred.

 

Finally, he uses enough Power to be able to destroy the Creator or Shai'tan. He has moved beyond a mortal man.  

 

To be fair,he did not break it,he held it back long enough(which was something no one other man is capable of doing) and escaped.

 

And I do not think they used a circle of 72,it has to be 13 which was supposed to be unstopable and was probably considering that Rand had to run from it.

[Entreri]

 

Rand can manipulate the Pattern at will.  His children with Aviendha indicates that even they have some special powers.  

 

Like I said a couple of years ago, after Dragonmount, Rand has moved well beyond LTT. Another impossible thing he could do was break a shield created by 13, as Egwene knew he could do this in ToM. 

 

In FoH, the author said if LTT has taken over, Rand would have beaten Lanfear. This is a Rand who is nowhere near full strength.

In LoC, he was easily shielded by a circle of 13, even with that angreal. 

AMOL, a full circle (implied to be 72), he overcame with the same angreal.  "At least three dozen Dreadlords" attacking him with shields.  "Light that had to be a full circle".  It would make no sense for Taim to use merely 13, given he had so many channelers. "Full circle", same reference Egwene states about Demandred.

 

Finally, he uses enough Power to be able to destroy the Creator or Shai'tan. He has moved beyond a mortal man.  

 

To be fair,he did not break it,he held it back long enough(which was something no one other man is capable of doing) and escaped.

 

And I do not think they used a circle of 72,it has to be 13 which was supposed to be unstopable and was probably considering that Rand had to run from it.

Egwene knew he could break that shield. Women are the weaker channelers OP strength wise, and in AMOL the circle was probably led by Taim...

 

As for AMOL, yes, he did not break the shield but "throwing back" at Taim. 

 

I used to assume that it was 13 but after rereading the passage, it does not make sense for them to use only 13 (when Taim has 100's of channelers at his disposal) or Rand's reaction to the shield coming at him.

 

He had no fear of going into the Tower facing 13 channeler shields, but ran away from that in AMOL? He was hoping Taim would come:  "He laughed...I had hoped you would come!"

 

They knew what he had done at Maradon, which would typically require someone of Rand or Ishamael's strength with a sa'angreal.  Rand felt "at least three dozen Dreadlords" attacking him, likely a similar number of females.

 

"One that was coming would be created by a circle of men and women.  A man would be leading...Light! That had to be a full circle".  Certainly a circle of 13 does not need a man to lead, of course to expand beyond 13 needs a man.

 

Doing what he did, his Power in unmatched, even against only 13, if it was against 72, he is a true Titan.  Either way, he stated in his PoV: "He could have beaten Taim!"

[XXX]

Of course he could have beaten Taim.Taim in an uneducated 3rd age channeler who is weaker than Rand.

 

But I still think it was a circle of 13 but that is something Sanderson can answer.

[Entreri]

Of course he could have beaten Taim.Taim in an uneducated 3rd age channeler who is weaker than Rand.

 

But I still think it was a circle of 13 but that is something Sanderson can answer.

 

Of course, Taim is a complete insect compared to Rand Sedai, likely defeat 4-5 Taim's simultaneously.  Face-to-face, one-on-one, confrontation: Rand Sedai vs. Taim would have lasted all of 3-5 seconds. 

 

LTT slapped around Ishamael, Rand Sedai forget it.  Demandred knows who is #1. Lanfear states that what LTT can do she can do better in book 4, lol (Man vs. toddler, poor Lanfear with her overblown self estimation and her relative weak OP strength compared to LTT). 

 

Rand believed that Taim was leading the full circle, even so he knew he could have won that confrontation.