Pokemon XY

[Maurelle]

I kinda like the whole fairy pokemon thing. We needed a new type so why not one that my niece thinks is very cute. As for why fairy defeats dragon-don't dragons get slain in fairy tales? lol. I'm just excited that we finally got decent graphics for battles. I loved using them in Colosseum.

[Nolder]

It's not likely to make much of a difference concerning current pokemon. I think most of the ones that would obviously be changed to Fairy (Jigglypuff line, Clefairy line, etc) just aren't in the same class statwise as most dragon types. So unless new pokemon using Fairy type like Sylveon are up to par I don't see the new type actually effecting the metagame much. Unless there are some good pokemon that will be able to learn any good Fairy moves. They wont get the STAB but that usually doesn't matter too much if you have a well trained pokemon with the stats in the right places.

[Maurelle]

That's true. I just think people here are acting way too outraged by the idea of them. It fits the Japanese aesthetic of kawaii and it makes my niece happy. For me, it's just some new pokemon to collect.

 

I wonder which moves will get classified as fairy (besides stuff like sing). Otherwise they are going to end up as just fluff pokemon which would be the greater sin to me.

[reyler]

It's not been announced as among the previous Pokemon to be retyped as fairy, but I might almost be willing to put money on Chansey/Blissey getting retyped, and that'll definitely affect the metagame if you tamper with the go-to damage sponge.

[Nolder]

I forgot about Blissey lol

[Sunrise Lord]

I can't imagine what kind of power that'll give Chansey and Blissey.  Sweeper/wall?  I wonder what Fairy's weakness'll be since it's super effective against dragon...

[reyler]

Maybe they'll bring it back full circle and have it be weak to psychic; you know, reason undoes superstition or some such justification.

[Mr Ares]

Maybe they'll bring it back full circle and have it be weak to psychic; you know, reason undoes superstition or some such justification.

Are psychics really so far outside the realms of superstition? Given that fairies are sometimes depicted as being averse to cold iron, a steel weakness might be the closest thing. Given how near useless it is as an offensive type, it would be nice to see an actual reason to take steel type offence. Poison as well.

[Sunrise Lord]

I'd be happy with that.  Poison is virtually useless, except for Toxic, in my opinion, so a poison or steel weakness would be cool.

[Maurelle]

Steel does make the most sense.

[Nolder]

http://www.dorkly.com/comic/52546/be-careful-what-you-wish-for

[Cheetaiean]

rofl... I love the TF2 reference. Yeah, I agree that a steel type weakness would be awesome, a poison type is practically confirmed :D

[Sunrise Lord]

More than anything, I want the storyline to be as good as that of BW/B2W2.  I'm most likely biased, but I really do think they have the deepest storyline of the series.

[Silver]

I thought all the pokemon games had the same story...

[reyler]

Gen V's story is sort of deepest by default, in that the previous generations didn't really have one.

[Nolder]

Wha? Yes they did. They may not have been very deep but they were there.

[reyler]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ExcusePlot

[Nolder]

I don't agree.

 

Red/Blue had three recognizable plots. Completing the Pokedex, because it was the first game and this could reasonably stand as the plot. You were encouraged at various steps along your journey to catch more pokemon and keep checking back in with Oak once you've made progress. You were supposed to collect and categorize all the pokemon in the world and learn everything about them. Granted this is the weakest plot and wasn't pushed quite as much in subsequent games but it did compliment the second plot, beating your rival and becoming a Pokemon Master. As you're making your rounds from city to city you are challenging the gym leaders and trying to earn their badges, enabling you to compete in the Pokemon League. It always seems like your rival is one step ahead of you though so you have to train hard just to match his progress and finally it all comes to a head when you have to challenge him for the title of Pokemon Master after beating the Elite Four. There was also the more interesting subplot of Giovanni and Team Rocket trying to take over the Kanto region and the whole Mewtwo thing. Stopping a group of thugs from abusing animals Pokemon may not be the most intellectually stimulating plotline ever but it gave you more of a reason to care about pokemon, because there were people out there who were hurting them and they needed your help.

 

Gold/Silver was a bit mishmashed considering you have to beat the Pokemon League before you could enter the Kanto region and earn those badges but the Rocket plotline was pretty solid and may have even been better than the original considering the Rockets had a more tangible goal (bringing back Giovanni) than "take over and steal pokemon for profit". There was a lot more of a...background lore to Gold/Silver and making the world more dynamic than there was plot. The Ruins of Alph, the shrine in Ilex forest, the story of the three dogs and Ho-Oh/Lugia, Cinnabar Island exploding, the Week Siblings, the bug catching contest, challenging Red on Mt Silver. All of that made the pokemon world seem more alive which was kind of a big thing because Red/Blue was very static.

 

Ruby/Sapphire was probably the most convoluted game in the series and the one I think you'd have the best case for. You have a rival in the professor's child but then they aren't really your rival and then Wally is your rival for a bit but not really. There's also the Teams (Magma, Aqua) storyline and it doesn't make much sense. They want to either have more land or more ocean? Ok....?? And of course there's the rehashed collecting pokemon and be a Pokemon Master angle that everyone was starting to get a bit tired of. In defense of Gen 3 though they made a lot of really good updates to the way in which pokemon vary and battle. Adding Abilities and Natures and redoing the way shininess works and adding double battles and all that. Made battling pokemon a lot more competitive and interesting. It's almost like they can only do one good thing per game up to this point.

 

Diamond/Pearl is IMO where everything really starts coming together. There was a very solid plotline with team Galactic and Cyrus and Dialga/Palkia. You're not just saving some pokemon or a region this time but the very existence of the world. That's pretty epic in scope and Cyrus was an interesting character with a bit of depth to him unlike previous Bosses. Diamond/Pearl also had a more dynamic world (Underground, Rotom, Mother, Weather, Swarms, Lake Valor explosion, etc) and the Rival dynamic was also more interesting than it had been the past two games, giving you a solid challenge that made sense. 

 

Black/White arguably had the best plot, although I think they could have done more with it. The Seven Sages thing was pretty interesting and I liked N and Ghestis but this time around the legendary pokemon failed to impress. It was also one of the shorter games I think. Or maybe I just rushed through it. They significantly improved the dynamic world aspect even more which was something I found surprising. Like Black City and all the people walking around in Castelia city and all that. Pretty cool. I think your argument for Excuse Plot could also fit here. Both because I think they flubbed the plot and also because the "Pokemon Master/Collector" thing was used to death like two or three games ago, by now it's just beating the dead horse.

 

BW2 I didn't play so can't comment on. So yeah I think Gen's 1 and 4 were most plot heavy with 2 not actually being that bad. 3 and 5 you definitely have cases for although I think the battle improvements really make up for it in 3's case.

[SinisterDeath]

An Excuse Plot is, in the simplest terms, a plot that is clearly there merely as a justification for the gameplay, or other form of flashy, show-offy-ness, to happen. In short, the story serves the needs of the gameplay, nothing more. It makes no pretense of intrinsic value, but simply provides some banter so you understand why the purple and non-purple units are shooting at each other.

 

That sounds like the pokemon I remember.

(note, I've only seen the first few seasons of the anime, and never really got into the Gameboy version, when it first came out)

 But that pretty much seems spot on for the first two you listed.  Specially with team rocket. That fulfills the 'flashy show-off-ness gag routine. The Mew-two thing is probably closer to... foreshadowing? Abusing pokemon = mini-quest.  

[Nolder]

Basically what you and Reyler are trying to say is that there is no value in the story. It is not actually interesting and exists only as an excuse to play with the mechanics of the game. I disagree with that. I am not saying it's Shakespeare but I don't think you guys are giving it enough credit. Maybe it's because we are older now and we've seen several pokemon games with very few variations in the story. I agree it's stale and overused and was pretty cookie cutter to begin with but I wouldn't term it as an "excuse plot".

[reyler]

Come on, the first game had only slightly more of a story than the original Donkey Kong. That's not a knock on it, it's just that up until B&W the story existed primarily to facilitate the gameplay, rather than something that could exist on its own merits. It's the difference between Final Fantasy I and Final Fantasy VI. Again, not a knock on it; Megaman is no poorer for having a paper-thin plot, because the focus was on Hey look how fun it is to shoot a robot frog, or this guy that looks like a pocket lighter with legs. But don't let's pretend that there was anything approaching even two-dimensional character depth for at least a decade into the franchise. Don't let's confuse goalposts with a story.

[Nolder]

I don't agree. The original Donkey Kong was literally jumping barrels and climbing ladders to save a princess from a monkey. There wasn't much (if any?) dialogue, there wasn't a persistent world, it was literally just mechanics that relied on fast reflexes and a bit of planning. That was it. The first pokemon had dialogue (cheesy but hey it was a 1998 gameboy game), it had a persistent world, it had games within the game (slots, safari zone, fishing). I am not trying to say the story was top notch but it can stand on it's own. In other words I would (and have) read a book or watch a show/movie using the plot of the first game. That tells me it's not an "excuse plot", just a simple story.

[SinisterDeath]

Which was more  important in the original pokemon. gameplay, or story?

Take away plot,  Can the game stand on its own?

Take away the gameplay, can the game stand on its own?

 

The Final Fantasy 1 comparison is pretty valid to mind you. Except pokemon had better gameplay.

[Sunrise Lord]

The original games were okay overall story-wise, but there are some deeper meanings to it as well, such as when your rival comes to see Pokemon as not just tools to use to further his own ambitions but as beings who have feelings and worth.

[Sunrise Lord]

I'm disappointed that Xerneas is Fairy-type.  I was leaning more towards steel.  Yveltal's type of Dark/Flying isn't very surprising, though.  And the bad guys!  Wth?  They're only after money?  That's it?  I suppose Rocket was too, but they had other intentions as well.  And they're orange....