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Day 18 spoilers


Terez
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Soe'feia  

85 members have voted

  1. 1. Who is Tuon's new Truthspeaker?

    • Selucia. She's just making the announcement again.
      7
    • Nynaeve
      11
    • Setalle Anan
      31
    • Tylee
      0
    • Min
      1
    • Moiraine
      4
    • Egeanin
      3
    • Berelain
      2
    • Graendal
      4
    • Moghedien
      0
    • Egwene
      5
    • Cadsuane
      2
    • Suffa
      1
    • Other
      8
    • Undecided
      6


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Fortuona ignored her, standing. "This woman is my new Soe'feia. Holy woman, she who may not be touched. We have been blessed. Let it be known."

 

 

This one is IMO the first one worth voting on, though I can add other questions to the poll later. There are a few good possibilities, and some not so good that I have included in the poll choices, but I think the strongest argument is for Nynaeve. DaoineSidhe beat me to my arguments, but believe it or not I had the same thought on all those points independently, unless I read that post when I had just woken up and only subconsciously registered it. (Which I admit is possible.) I'm not trying to vie for bragging rights; just saying, the evidence is that strong.

 

First, the cons. Nynaeve is a channeler; obviously the damane issue will need to be resolved for this to happen, but I think that is inevitable despite Aviendha's vision. Second, Nynaeve hates the Seanchan, but I think once certain concessions are made she will be amenable, partly because of Mat. Third, Nynaeve is one of the few vulnerable main characters, and there is a good chance she will die. But it's hardly a foregone conclusion, and I think she is the best fit for this role, particularly if Lan dies. (RJ said she would cry, but she would eventually get over it, and as Harriet has said many times, having a task can help a grieving widow work through her emotions.)

 

Some think that it's just a reannouncement of Selucia. I think this unlikely; it would just be redundant, and the change in wording from the Selucia announcement is worth discussion. Some think this means Selucia has died, since Tuon indicated she was looking for a new Voice rather than a new Truthspeaker. I don't think that's necessarily true; Tuon did indicate that Selucia would not welcome the role, and that she was more comfortable in a position of service.

 

Now, the pros for Nynaeve. First, she is probably the most appropriate for that role; being outspoken without fear of consequences is the bedrock of Nynaeve's character. Second, she is the Wisdom of the story, which parallels the Greek meaning of Sofia.

 

Some people think that the 'holy woman' language indicates an Aes Sedai. I don't necessarily think that is true, but Nynaeve fits the bill, and what's more, this is reminiscent of Masema's description of her:

 

 

"Nynaeve. Yes." His voice quickened. "Yes! I remember your name, and your face. Blessed are you among women, Nynaeve al'Meara, none more so save the blessed mother of the Lord Dragon herself, for you watched the Lord Dragon grow. You attended the Lord Dragon as a child." He seized her arms, hard fingers biting in painfully, but he seemed unaware of it. "You will speak to the crowds of the Lord Dragon's boyhood, of his first words of wisdom, of the miracles that accompanied him. The Light has sent you here to serve the Lord Dragon."

 

 

Not only is the 'holy' bit foreshadowed here, but it's also in the context of Nynaeve's fearless outspokenness.

 

RJ introduced Tuon in TGH and introduced the prophecy of Mat's marriage in TSR. It's not beyond reason that he was working out the details of how he would bring the Seanchan and the Randlanders together while he was writing TFOH. He was also working out the roles of the Forsaken, and it might not be an accident that he put the best Healer among them in Nynaeve's future role. Nynaeve was also instrumental in exposing and capturing Semirhage, for which you might say Tuon owes her a debt. As for why Nynaeve would be described as 'holy'...for bringing the Dragon Reborn back from the dead, maybe? :wink:

 

Some think that the 'cannot be touched' language is also suggestive of an Aes Sedai. Again, not so sure, but again, Nynaeve fits the bill. I think it's more indicative of the nature of a Truthspeaker for the Imperial Family:

 

 

Many of the Blood called their Voices Soe'feia, but Voices of the Blood were so'jhin, and knew they could be punished if their owners were displeased by what they said even if they were called Soe'feia. A Speaker of Truth could not be commanded or coerced or punished in any way. A Truthspeaker was required to tell the stark truth whether or not you wanted to hear it, and to make sure that you heard. Those Blood who called their Voices Soe'feia thought that Algwyn, the last man to sit on the Crystal Throne, almost a thousand years ago, had been insane because he let his Soe'feia live and continue in her post after she slapped his face before the entire court. They did not understand the traditions of her family any more than the goggle-eyed captain did. The Deathwatch Guards' expressions never altered behind the half-concealing cheek-pieces of their helmets. They understood.

 

 

Now, my arguments against the rest of the options.

 

Berelain I think is out because Tuon hinted in KOD that she needed to fill out the ranks of the Imperial Family. Berelain is descended from Hawkwing, and there are three separate foreshadowings that her head will be shaved bald. Some seem to think that is ridiculous, but I think they will be in for a surprise on January 8.

 

Egwene I don't think is very likely because I think it's a weird role for someone who is already the Amyrlin Seat, and implies too much submission to the Empress. If concessions are made with the channelers, I think Egwene will remain to be a very powerful person in her own right, and not someone in the retinue of the Empress.

 

I can see why Egeanin is tempting for some people, but I think she is really a horrible choice. It is her nature to be subservient to the Empress, and even though Tuon has tried her best to earn Egeanin's disrespect, it hasn't worked very well, and I don't think it ever will. That's not Egeanin's role in the story.

 

I don't like the idea that it's Graendal (even less Moghedien) mostly because it's repetitive but also because it's a little late in the game for a plotline like that.

 

I understand why people go for Min because of the Wisdom thing, but I don't think this is Min's role in the series. I think she and Rand are going to go off and live in a hidey-hole somewhere (most likely in the Westwood) and while I don't see her as being entirely reclusive, I also don't see her playing a daily role at Tuon's side. With Rand as her mate, she'll be aware due to lifespan differences just how precious each moment with him is. If Lan dies, Nynaeve could use a job to keep her occupied and give her a purpose in life. If he lives (less likely IMO), he could stay by her side. Rand cannot.

 

I think Tylee and Setalle would be good choices. I just don't think they have quite the same resonance as Nynaeve. Moiraine is probably the best of the other choices, but her personality is not quite a perfect fit for the role in the same way as Nynaeve's personality is, and the same arguments people make against Moiraine being Queen of Cairhien would apply to this role as well, perhaps even more so. If Moiraine is going to have a day job after the Last Battle, IMO it will be as Queen of Cairhien.

 

I think Cadsuane and Suffa are just ridiculous choices, for different reasons, but I put them on there for fun. (Whoever mentioned Sevanna—the only candidate I saw between here, TL, and Tor I thought not worth putting on the list—will just have to vote for Other.) Cadsuane has blaze of glory painted on her forehead, and Suffa is just....Suffa. She might die too.

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I'm tentatively agreeing with Nyn (but may change my mind depending on other arguments). Mostly for the role she's had in getting the 'humbler' channelers to stand up for themselves. I think it would be ironic if she ended up defending AS to the Seanchan.

 

The only thing against it (for me) is that I'm not sure that Nyn will ever forgive the Seanchan for collaring Eg.

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First, the cons. Nynaeve is a channeler; obviously the damane issue will need to be resolved for this to happen, but I think that is inevitable despite Aviendha's vision. Second, Nynaeve hates the Seanchan, but I think once certain concessions are made she will be amenable, partly because of Mat. Third, Nynaeve is one of the few vulnerable main characters, and there is a good chance she will die. But it's hardly a foregone conclusion, and I think she is the best fit for this role, particularly if Lan dies. (RJ said she would cry, but she would eventually get over it, and as Harriet has said many times, having a task can help a grieving widow work through her emotions.)

Only if Lan dies I would say. If he lives Nynaeve is guaranteed to be out of the race for the position. If Lan lives he will try to rebuilt Malkier. Everyone knows that and Nynaeve will be at his side until the day of his death. She wouldn't be able to serve as Tuon's Truthspeaker. Even if he dies and she turns out to be pregnant depending on his wishes she might actually rebuilt Malkier herself for their child. Nynaeve is big on duty and responsibility just like Lan and she is a natural leader.

 

Some think that it's just a reannouncement of Selucia. I think this unlikely; it would just be redundant, and the change in wording from the Selucia announcement is worth discussion. Some think this means Selucia has died, since Tuon indicated she was looking for a new Voice rather than a new Truthspeaker. I don't think that's necessarily true; Tuon did indicate that Selucia would not welcome the role, and that she was more comfortable in a position of service.

Yeah, I agree that it's not just a repeat of the announcement, but I disagree with your reasoning that Tuon would allow Selucia to revert to a simple service position. Selucia may be more comfortable in such a position but in TOM Tuon's position basically was that Selucia would get over her reluctance in time.

 

Now, the pros for Nynaeve. First, she is probably the most appropriate for that role; being outspoken without fear of consequences is the bedrock of Nynaeve's character. Second, she is the Wisdom of the story, which parallels the Greek meaning of Sofia.

Nynaeve is outspoken yes, but I disagree with your casting her as the wise woman of the story. She was the village wisdom in the beginning, but she cast off that role as she stepped out in the real world.

 

Some people think that the 'holy woman' language indicates an Aes Sedai. I don't necessarily think that is true, but Nynaeve fits the bill, and what's more, this is reminiscent of Masema's description of her:

 

 

"Nynaeve. Yes." His voice quickened. "Yes! I remember your name, and your face. Blessed are you among women, Nynaeve al'Meara, none more so save the blessed mother of the Lord Dragon herself, for you watched the Lord Dragon grow. You attended the Lord Dragon as a child." He seized her arms, hard fingers biting in painfully, but he seemed unaware of it. "You will speak to the crowds of the Lord Dragon's boyhood, of his first words of wisdom, of the miracles that accompanied him. The Light has sent you here to serve the Lord Dragon."

 

 

Not only is the 'holy' bit foreshadowed here, but it's also in the context of Nynaeve's fearless outspokenness.

 

 

I'm going to ignore that cause Masema was batshit crazy and unless it was revealed that he had some ability like Mins which made him see all those delusions I don't consider his nonsense foreshadowing.

 

RJ introduced Tuon in TGH and introduced the prophecy of Mat's marriage in TSR. It's not beyond reason that he was working out the details of how he would bring the Seanchan and the Randlanders together while he was writing TFOH. He was also working out the roles of the Forsaken, and it might not be an accident that he put the best Healer among them in Nynaeve's future role. Nynaeve was also instrumental in exposing and capturing Semirhage, for which you might say Tuon owes her a debt. As for why Nynaeve would be described as 'holy'...for bringing the Dragon Reborn back from the dead, maybe? :wink:

The bit about the debt is a bit too much I think. Nynaeve was there but so were many others.

 

 

 

Now, my arguments against the rest of the options.

 

Berelain I think is out because Tuon hinted in KOD that she needed to fill out the ranks of the Imperial Family. Berelain is descended from Hawkwing, and there are three separate foreshadowings that her head will be shaved bald. Some seem to think that is ridiculous, but I think they will be in for a surprise on January 8.

Now I wonder who those "some" are XD. You still haven't given a believable reason why Berelain would just abandon her sovereignity or why Tuon would trust Berelain so quickly just because she claims to be descended from Arthur Hawkwing. That said I agree that Berelain won't be the Truthspeaker. Berelain as the woman who may not be touched is a bit harsh for Galad.

 

Egwene I don't think is very likely because I think it's a weird role for someone who is already the Amyrlin Seat, and implies too much submission to the Empress. If concessions are made with the channelers, I think Egwene will remain to be a very powerful person in her own right, and not someone in the retinue of the Empress.

No doubt about it. It would be an interesting idea though for the future of the world. Randland is eventually swallowed up by the Seanchan. The practice of damane is abolished and in return the Aes Sedai give up politicking and stick to what they were supposed to be the servants of all with their leader having the position of Truthspeaker. Unrealistic I know, but I don't think that would be such a bad future for the world.

 

I can see why Egeanin is tempting for some people, but I think she is really a horrible choice. It is her nature to be subservient to the Empress, and even though Tuon has tried her best to earn Egeanin's disrespect, it hasn't worked very well, and I don't think it ever will. That's not Egeanin's role in the story.

 

 

I don't like the idea that it's Graendal (even less Moghedien) mostly because it's repetitive but also because it's a little late in the game for a plotline like that.

 

I understand why people go for Min because of the Wisdom thing, but I don't think this is Min's role in the series. I think she and Rand are going to go off and live in a hidey-hole somewhere (most likely in the Westwood) and while I don't see her as being entirely reclusive, I also don't see her playing a daily role at Tuon's side. With Rand as her mate, she'll be aware due to lifespan differences just how precious each moment with him is. If Lan dies, Nynaeve could use a job to keep her occupied and give her a purpose in life. If he lives (less likely IMO), he could stay by her side. Rand cannot.

 

I agree 100%

 

I think Tylee and Setalle would be good choices. I just don't think they have quite the same resonance as Nynaeve.

I think Tylee isn't really suitable. Her strength lie in martial matters. She should remain where she's good at and that is with the military and not at court. Setalle I agree with, but whether she would want the position is a different matter. The holy woman stuff would be too much for her I'd say.

Moiraine is probably the best of the other choices, but her personality is not quite a perfect fit for the role in the same way as Nynaeve's personality is, and the same arguments people make against Moiraine being Queen of Cairhien would apply to this role as well, perhaps even more so. If Moiraine is going to have a day job after the Last Battle, IMO it will be as Queen of Cairhien.

Moiraine as Queen of Cairhien is just out of the question. RJ and BS put so much effort into making Elayne queen over both Andor and Cairhien it won't get overturned. Any job even scullery maid is more likely than Queen of Cairhien.

 

I disagree about her personality not being as perfect a fit as Nynaeve's. Moiraine may not be so blunt, but I don't think she ever held back her opinion. Moiraine can put as much meaning into a level look and into a raised eyebrow as Nynaeve can into a five minute rant. Her manners make her an even better fit for Tuon. The Seanchan are big on subtle gestures. Moiraine can handle that. Nynaeve not so much.

Moreover there is Thom. Whatever Moiraine does from now on he is part of the package. He has come to the attention to quite a few Seanchan and they all think he's capable. Tuon even remarked how he would fit into Seandar I think which would be atleast as strong a foreshadowing as what you think will happen to Berelain. Thom works well with Mat and both Moiraine and him thrive in places of power. It's the natural habitat.

 

Obviously my vote goes to Moiraine, but if not her and if Lan dies without leaving an unborn child behind, Nynaeve would be a good second choice.

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If Lan lives he will try to rebuilt Malkier.

 

 

Not necessarily. There are not many Malkieri left as it is, and most of them are probably about to die. But of course, that includes Lan.

 

 

I agree that it's not just a repeat of the announcement, but I disagree with your reasoning that Tuon would allow Selucia to revert to a simple service position.

 

 

I don't see why she wouldn't.

 

 

Nynaeve is outspoken yes, but I disagree with your casting her as the wise woman of the story.

 

 

I didn't say she was the wise woman of the story. I said she was the Wisdom of the story. And she is, despite her having left that village role behind. She has been a mentor to all the Two Rivers people (despite her progression with Egwene), and serves as an advisor to Rand and Egwene right now.

 

 

I'm going to ignore that cause Masema was batshit crazy and unless it was revealed that he had some ability like Mins which made him see all those delusions I don't consider his nonsense foreshadowing.

 

 

A character's mental state has nothing to do with whether his words can be used as foreshadowing. That's one of the differences between foreshadowing and straightforward evidence.

 

 

You still haven't given a believable reason why Berelain would just abandon her sovereignity

 

 

You haven't given a good reason why she wouldn't. Why do the Mayeners give fealty to Berelain? She is their ruler; there is a bargain between them. It's never something for nothing, and wouldn't be in the case of the Empire either.

 

 

or why Tuon would trust Berelain so quickly just because she claims to be descended from Arthur Hawkwing.

 

 

For the same reason she trusted Tylin so quickly. The matter of descent is just a distinction between High Blood and Imperial Family.

 

 

Moiraine as Queen of Cairhien is just out of the question. RJ and BS put so much effort into making Elayne queen over both Andor and Cairhien it won't get overturned.

 

 

They haven't put any real effort into making her Queen of Cairhien. If anything, the way she claimed the throne was underwhelming. I think she was only ever meant to be a placeholder, hence the timing and the dodge of a real coronation.

 

 

Moreover there is Thom.

 

 

Indeed.

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I feel like it's a bit late for any of the Forsaken to try to impersonate someone again.  I also think that the new title is telling because it indicates that she is adding someone to her cabinet - not replacing.  A Forsaken would typically appear as a new person replacing an old position IMO.

 

I think this phrase is going to be the truce moment.  Cannot even guess who it will be though.  Part of me thinks Nynaeve would be a good choice, but I really cannot see Nynaeve putting up with all the Seanchan lifestyle.  It just feels like her story leads somewhere else entirely.

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Many of the Blood called their Voices Soe'feia, but Voices of the Blood were so'jhin, and knew they could be punished if their owners were displeased by what they said even if they were called Soe'feia. A Speaker of Truth could not be commanded or coerced or punished in any way. A Truthspeaker was required to tell the stark truth whether or not you wanted to hear it, and to make sure that you heard. Those Blood who called their Voices Soe'feia thought that Algwyn, the last man to sit on the Crystal Throne, almost a thousand years ago, had been insane because he let his Soe'feia live and continue in her post after she slapped his face before the entire court. They did not understand the traditions of her family any more than the goggle-eyed captain did. The Deathwatch Guards' expressions never altered behind the half-concealing cheek-pieces of their helmets. They understood.

Btw. Is this whole "Truthspeaker" -job something that existed in Seanchan continent already as Hawking's son come to conquer it or was this founded by Ishamael as he was the advisor of Hawking? "I am always telling the truth to you and can't deny it". Sound's just like the thing Ishamael would like. 

 

On the topic: I agree Terez - Nynaeve seems to be the most reasonable choice, as long as Lan is dead. Otherwise that won't likely happen. 

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If Lan lives he will try to rebuilt Malkier.

 

Not necessarily. There are not many Malkieri left as it is, and most of them are probably about to die. But of course, that includes Lan.

We'll see how many Malkieri survive, but when Lan raised the golden crane he accepted his throne. He won't go back on that. If it is in any way possible Lan will attempt to rebuilt Malkier. He's the guy who put that "Duty is heavier than a mountain" stuff into Rand's head. He will fulfill his duty. Also there is that foreshadowing of Nynaeve's test for Accepted.

 

I agree that it's not just a repeat of the announcement, but I disagree with your reasoning that Tuon would allow Selucia to revert to a simple service position.

 

I don't see why she wouldn't.

 

Selucia bowed her head in acceptance, though she had no desire for any appointment other than to serve and protect Tuon. She would not welcome this position. But she was also honest and straightforward; she would make an excellent Truthspeaker.
This does not indicate that she has any intention of relieving Selucia of her duty. And Selucia isn't the type to run away IMO.

 

 

 

I'm going to ignore that cause Masema was batshit crazy and unless it was revealed that he had some ability like Mins which made him see all those delusions I don't consider his nonsense foreshadowing.

 

A character's mental state has nothing to do with whether his words can be used as foreshadowing. That's one of the differences between foreshadowing and straightforward evidence.

Masema has talked so much nonsense there is nothing to differentiate this from his other delusions. Is all that other stuff also foreshadowing?

 

You still haven't given a believable reason why Berelain would just abandon her sovereignity

 

You haven't given a good reason why she wouldn't. Why do the Mayeners give fealty to Berelain? She is their ruler; there is a bargain between them. It's never something for nothing, and wouldn't be in the case of the Empire either.

I don't need to give a reason why anyone would want to keep his or her sovereignity. It's self-evident. You live in the US, don't you? From what I've seen of your politics this shouldn't be anything new to you. Have you ever seen a state demand that the federal government take away its right to make decisions? Same for Mayene. The city-state works. Mayene seems to be a rather wealthy city.

Yes, the Tairens are their economic rivals, but if Berelain manages to ensure that Tear is kept at bay why would she say to her people that from now on they are all servants of some empress most never even heard of? If you can give me a good reason I won't hesitate to agree with you. Berelain is a very practical woman. If she sees that the best way to ensure Mayene's future is to become part of the Seanchan she will do so immediately. But right now there are Illian and Tear between her and the Seanchan. Tear under Darlin isn't a big threat and if she can lure the Whitecloaks to make Mayene their new home Tear might be no danger for generations to come. So what gain is there for Mayene to become a part of the Seanchan empire?

 

or why Tuon would trust Berelain so quickly just because she claims to be descended from Arthur Hawkwing.

 

For the same reason she trusted Tylin so quickly. The matter of descent is just a distinction between High Blood and Imperial Family.

I'm not sure on the timeline, but didn't Tuon spend months around Tylin? Right now she hasn't ever seen Berelain and it should take atleast as long for Tuon to come to the conclusion that Berelain would be a suitable member of the imperial family. Obviously first Berelain will have to proof that she is Hawkwing's descendant. Which won't be easy seeing how he's dead 1,000 years.

 

 

Moiraine as Queen of Cairhien is just out of the question. RJ and BS put so much effort into making Elayne queen over both Andor and Cairhien it won't get overturned.

 

They haven't put any real effort into making her Queen of Cairhien. If anything, the way she claimed the throne was underwhelming. I think she was only ever meant to be a placeholder, hence the timing and the dodge of a real coronation.

Oh really? What do you think all that stuff Rand did in Cairhien was all about? Ever since TFOH perhaps even since TSR the groundwork was laid for Elayne to claim the throne of Cairhien one day. If you don't call that effort I don't know what it is supposed to be. Moiraine on the other hand rejected the idea in New Spring completely. And if the Aes Sedai couldn't make her one when she was an Accepted I doubt anyone will be able to make her one against her wishes now.

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Their's also Mins viewings of a baby in a cradle with a sword and the 7 towers around Lan. Based on the fact that all her visions refer to the future, this shouldn't just be an identity - Lan was a baby with a sword, but by the time Min viewed it, it was the past. The 7 Towers could have been fulfilled when he accepted his Kingship, but the baby should still need to be fulfilled.

 

That doesn't mean he survives to the end of the book tho.

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I don't think there is enough info to start guessing on a specific person. I would reduce the poll to more general choices: an Aes Sedai, a sul'dam, a DF etc.

I think it's most likely an Aes Sedai but I wouldn't try to guess which one. Might be Nynaeve but might easily be somebody else too. I would say it's more likely that it's somebody else. Nynaeve's hands will be full whatever the story line.

She's got Lan and Rand to deal with. Even if Lan dies I think she'll stick with Rand. And when Rand dies she'll be busy trying to resurrect him. Then there is Moggy, her main Forsaken antagonist. Moggy never had anything to do with the Seanchan and I don't think she will.

I don't see anything of import in comparing the "holy" part to the remark made by Masema about Nyn. We have an author switch and BS often uses different terminology. And even if it was written by RJ I would not make much of this one. It might be just a reinforcement of the rule not to mess with the Truthspeaker. Might be necessary if the new Truthspeaker is an Aes Sedai, given the prior attitudes of the Seanchan to channelers. I do agree that Tuon will change her mind about the damane issue (in fact I'm absolutely sure on this one) but it doesn't mean that the change will be easy for her subjects to accept.

Edited by herid
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A character's mental state has nothing to do with whether his words can be used as foreshadowing. That's one of the differences between foreshadowing and straightforward evidence.

Masema has talked so much nonsense there is nothing to differentiate this from his other delusions. Is all that other stuff also foreshadowing?

You can not be serious here b3arz3rg3r. You do understand the distinction Terez made correct?

 

As for Berelein we know there has been an unbroken line of succession from Hawkwing's grandson(Tyrn) to her. Whatever proof they have it has been enough up until now and seperates them from any other group on Rand's continent. I would be astonished if they didn't have items/scrolls that the Seanchan would hold almost sacred.

Edited by Suttree
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A character's mental state has nothing to do with whether his words can be used as foreshadowing. That's one of the differences between foreshadowing and straightforward evidence.

Masema has talked so much nonsense there is nothing to differentiate this from his other delusions. Is all that other stuff also foreshadowing?
You can not be serious here b3arz3rg3r. You do understand the distinction Terez made correct?

I do, but my point is that with all that other ridiculous stuff Masema has spouted which has already turned out as false picking out one sentence and claiming it is a sort of foreshadowing is hard to accept. Masema just isn't a reliable source to base an argument on his mad ramblings.

 

As for Berelein we know there has been an unbroken line of succession from Hawkwing's grandson(Tyrn) to her. Whatever proof they have it has been enough up until now and seperates them from any other group on Rand's continent. I would be astonished if they didn't have items/scrolls that the Seanchan would hold almost sacred.

No, we don't know that. All we know is that a 1,000 years back the people of Mayene claimed that some guy was Hawkwing's grandson so they could declare independence. That claim was never accepted by anyone outside of Mayene. So like I said there is no proof that Berelain is Hawkwing's descendant that we know of. And I would be very astonished if they had something that could proof it. Some ancient scroll really doesn't constitute as proof since if they made the stuff about Tyrn up 1,000 years ago any ancient scroll would be fake.

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That claim was never accepted by anyone outside of Mayene. So like I said there is no proof that Berelain is Hawkwing's descendant that we know of. And I would be very astonished if they had something that could proof it. Some ancient scroll really doesn't constitute as proof since if they made the stuff about Tyrn up 1,000 years ago any ancient scroll would be fake.

Curious as to why you think the bolded above? I know there is a sentence on the Wiki saying something similar but I've seen that example used for why the wiki is not a good source. It's an assumption that doesn't seem to come from any evidence in text.

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That claim was never accepted by anyone outside of Mayene. So like I said there is no proof that Berelain is Hawkwing's descendant that we know of. And I would be very astonished if they had something that could proof it. Some ancient scroll really doesn't constitute as proof since if they made the stuff about Tyrn up 1,000 years ago any ancient scroll would be fake.

Curious as to why you think the bolded above? I know there is a sentence on the Wiki saying something similar but I've seen that example used for why the wiki is not a good source. It's an assumption that doesn't seem to come from any evidence in text.

 

I have the same impression.  It is generally considered to be a ridiculous claim that only Mayeners take seriously is the general impression I am left with from the books.

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TITLE: The World of Robert Jordan's the Wheel of Time

CHAPTER: The Reign of the High King

 

While the Firsts of Mayene claim descent from Hawkwing, through a grandson named Tyrn, there is no evidence that any of Hawkwing’s blood survived him, and all surviving contemporary records state clearly that none did. On the other hand, given the state of affairs after Hawkwing’s death, any living descendant of Hawkwing would have been hidden away as a matter of safety. Hawkwing met Tamika late in Free Year 964 on his return from the Aiel Waste and married her one year later. Several sources speak of the Tamika Poems, saying that they showed a man every bit as much in love as in the Amaline Poems, but of course none of them survive. Tamika can certainly be credited for Hawkwing’s return to his earlier policies toward the conquered lands, possibly for several refinements in administration and taxation added after Free Year 965, and thus in large part for Hawkwing’s reputation as a great ruler. Their first son, Luthair Paendrag Mondwin, was born in Free Year 967. They had either three more children or four, but we know almost nothing of them. At least tow of those children were daughters, for one commanded the “Shara expedition,” and a partial letter in the Royal Library in Cairhien says that “the great Hawkwing died less than an hour before the news arrived of the tragic deaths of his daughter Laiwynde and her son, the last of Hawkwing’s blood this side of the oceans.” Tamika herself died in Free Year 987; there is no record of the cause.

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Egwene was the first name to pop into my head when i read it.  However, upon thinking about it, I agree that she just has too many other duties, unfortunately I think that might apply to Nyna as well..Unless this is in the last ten pages of the book.  I could more easily see Nyna settling into something like this at the very end if Lan is dead, but I can't really see it during the LB.  I'm not willing to go more specific than female channeler X yet.  Or Setalle, I think she's a possibility.

 

@b3arz3rg3r, I think you are misunderstanding what foreshadowing is, it isnt prophecy within the book, it's a literary device used by writers. 

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I think Setalle is the best answer. While Nyn has some old and obscure references, I think throughout CoT and KoD we have been slammed in the face with foreshadowing of Setalle bridging the gap between AS and the Seachan.

 

Nynaeve doesn't fit for several reasons, one of which is that she doesn't have the demeanor. She may be blunt, brave and forceful, but I would never chalk her up as being wise. She has potential, but she is young. She could have never manuevered Tuon the way Setalle did.

 

However, there is a chance that she is just raising Selucia in station since selucia is currently only a So'jihn

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I mentioned this in the aMoL spoilers thread but what about Teslyn? She's straightforward and honest, the main qualities for a Truthspeaker. She knows about the sul'dam and is not afraid to talk about it. She's Aes Sedai, fitting with the "holy woman" idea. She has spent a lot of time around Tuon, enough for Fortuona to hold some measure of respect for her.

 

I don't think Setalle or Nynaeve work very well, tbh. Everyone is throwing out Setalle "post-healing" but she expressly said she doesn't want to be healed in ToM. The Aes Sedai "holy woman" reading doesn't work if she isn't healed. Plus, I see her storyline as pretty much concluded to this point. Throwing her in as Tuon's Truthspeaker would read too much like just throwing the character in because we know her name.

 

I think Nynaeve is going to have her hands tied running Malkier. I'm still believe in a reborn Malkier given how many showed up to help Lan at Tarwin's Gap and I still think Nyn (at the very least) will survive the Last Battle (tangent: I think Lan will be the prophesied Broken Wolf and die but Nyn will figure out how to heal death and use that to revive Lan and subsequently Rand. There is quite a bit of foreshadowing for her doing this, imo). She can't very well be adviser to the Seanchan and be Queen of Malkier. 

 

In conclusion, Teslyn holds all the strengths of Setalle in being honest, straightforward, and knowing Tuon without the "healing" problem and is, at the moment, free of any obligations, unlike Nynaeve.

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