Perrin's Ta'veren effect on the town of So Harbor?

[The Fisher King]

The upcoming release of AMOL has peaked my interest in the subject of Mat, Perrin and Rand being three of the most powerful Ta'veren to ever live...specifically Perrin in that weird town.

 

We've seen plenty of examples of Rand's...TGS was arguably ALL about that. Also, Hinderstrap was a huge example of Mat's.

 

But, what effect did Perrin's Ta'veren nature have on So Harbor?

 

 

Fish

[Suttree]

Well, according to BS I believe Perrin's ta'veren nature attracts people/things that he needs to him. Take that for what it is as it relates to your question.

 

As an aside I know some people who don't care for it but I have always enjoyed that So Habor sequence. Super creepy and to me it has a totally different feel than anything else in the series.

[The Fisher King]

I absolutely LOVED that chapter and all its subtle implications.

 

Gosh, Hinderstap and So Harbor were basically the same kind of deal but I just enjoyed So Harbor so much more. It was crafted...the creepiness factor and tension level gradually progressing and slowly playing on my nerves like they were violin strings...whereas in Hinderstrap I felt like I was being hit over the head with a bad, cheesy horror flick that made me laugh when I was supposed to be scared.

 

 

Fish

[Suttree]

Come now Fish, subtlety doesn't exist anymore. You know this for fact mate, just ask Talmanes...

[The Fisher King]

But he has a Sense.Of.Humor.

 

!!!

 

He will even break the Fourth Wall to MAKE SURE the Audience Under-Stands This.

 

 

Fish

[Sid]

Leaving something unfinished was nearly as bad as messing up the details.

Thank you, Brandrol

[The Fisher King]

Yeah!!!

 

Thanks, Brandol!!!

 

Uhhh...Remind me - who's Brandol again??

 

 

Fish

[JakeBarnes]

It's Brandon and Androl.  He made a funny about Brandon inserting his voice into the characters. 

[The Fisher King]

Well...DUH. I completely KNEW that!!!

 

Of COURSE I did!!

 

It usually doesn't bother me...except for when its just TOO in my face.

 

Like what he did with Talmanes in the prologue. That bordered on inexcusable.

 

 

Fish

[JakeBarnes]

 

I really didn't see it that way.  I've always read Talmanes the same way Brandon does.  I recently listened to the Audiobook of TFOH and that REALLY reinforced his sense of humor for me. 

 

Edit:  I wasn't trying to quote anything, but I can't remove the box. 

[The Fisher King]

I agreed that Talmanes always had a "sense of humor. " I also agreed that many people missed it. The scene in the inn in LOC is a fine example. But humor takes many forms. I always saw Talmanes' as more dry as opposed to the slapstick that we've seen recently.

 

 

Fish

 

 

P.S. Don't be ashamed of your box! Be PROUD of your box!! Its a fine box - never let anyone tell you any different.

[hjustinpace]

Should either Hinderstap or So Harbor be considered an effect of Mat or Perrin's Ta'veren nature?  Moraine, I think, in TSR posited that Ta'veren would attract bubbles of evil.  But we've seen bubbles of evil pop away from the three Ta'veren, and both Hinderstap and So Harbor strike me more as the Pattern unraveling than bubbles of evil (and the two concepts seem to be distinct, despite their similarities).  If the metaphors hold, it doesn't follow that instances of the Pattern unraveling would tend to happen more often around the Ta'veren than elsewhere, and we've certainly seen it happening elsewhere.*

 

Part of what makes the Pattern unraveling stuff so terrifying is the implication that it's happening everywhere.  And it's the furthest thing from the Ta'veren effect--the Ta'veren effect bends the rules of probability; the Pattern unraveling destroys the laws of reality.

 

*Most of these we've seen, as I recall, happened mostly around large numbers of Aes Sedai.  The presence of channelers may make a difference, or it just may be that it's happening elsewhere and we just haven't seen it.

[The Fisher King]

The idea that there could be some link between the Pattern and the OP is very interesting to me...

 

 

Fish

[KrisAnton]

It seems to me that the act of creating something, even a weapon, keeps the unravelling at bay. Possibly the use of the OP keeps things together, but maybe only if they create something with the weave? I remember something where using the OP also leaves them susceptible to the Shadow, so...

 

Also, on Talmanes, I took his radical change in humor to be an effect from the Thakandar blades, like he was becoming bolder and taking more risks, more careless. At least, that's what I told myself and was able to sleep at night.Talmanes is by far and away my favorite character in the series. Like a medieval Alfred Pennyworth who also kills Shadowspan.

 

Ed. For spelling.

[The Fisher King]

If creating something is an effective weapon against the Dark One's touch on the Pattern, then the Ogie singing the Song with the Talisman of Growing should be of utmost importance.

 

 

Fish

[KrisAnton]

There was that part in TGH where Loial tree sings himself a staff in one of the portal worlds and he remarks that the land was almost thankful to have made something. I guess if the Creator creates and the DO obliterates, the act of making something is an act of defiance to the DO. Even making weapons, which seems to be the only thing not melting or vaporizing these days, is helping reality. It's an odd paradox. The people of the AoL used their creativity to reach an all time high when they drilled the bore, it's like all of mankinds creating culminated in releasing the DO, kind of like a reset switch. The way the pattern works now, they create and destroy, thus making room for more creations, for infinity.

[KrisAnton]

Which also explains Ishmael's frustration with the while thing. Rand's too, to a certain extent but where he saw hope, Ishy only saw despair.

[Maleshub]

So Harbor is one of Perrin's negative points. He was Faile-obsessed to a degree that he wouldn't grant the Aes Sedai a couple of hours in the town (a couple of hours he could spare) to try and help the people. He knew that it was part of the DO's touch on the world; but still disregarded the suffering of the innocents to pursue his obsession. And it wasn't something difficult to handle. They were psychologically unbalanced by seeing the dead walking. They needed someone to counsel them, like Egwene's counseling of the novices in the WT during her imprisonment and Elayne's handling of the unnatural events in the palace.

 

Contrast that with how he handled the "spot of the Blight" after the Faile rescue. In that event, he worked the Wise Ones and Aes Sedai (and maybe Asha'man, I don't remember) hard to remove that tainted part from the world.

 

Perrin's ta'veren effect on So Harbor is "nil." It was one of his numerous low moral points in his obsessive compulsive reaction to Faile's abduction.

[hjustinpace]

Talmanes works better as a non-POV character, without the internal monologue pointing out what's supposed to be a joke.  Rereading TGS, his dry sense of humor is a little more obvious than it was previously, but it was always there.

[The Fisher King]

O Razor - I agree completelty.

 

Theodril - awesome and insightful take on the situation...THANKS!!!

 

 

Fish

[Leyrann]

May I point out Hinderstrap was for sure not caused by Mat's Ta'veren? It was already going for weeks.

[The Fisher King]

You are correct. As was So Harbor. I am talking about the effect Mat and Perrin have on a place *once* they get there.

 

 

 

Fish

[OptimusPrime]

The idea that there could be some link between the Pattern and the OP is very interesting to me... Fish

Well Ive thought for a while now that the Hundred Weaves amplified by Callandor might repair the thinness of the Pattern at Shayol Ghul, that do anything for you? Speculation of course. If they were a way to strengthen the Pattern it maybe explains why they are required in the test, even if the knowledge behind it was forgotten the weaves have survived. I think Nynaeve will have the idea after the main event.

[Maleshub]

O Razor - I agree completelty.

 

Theodril - awesome and insightful take on the situation...THANKS!!!

 

 

Fish

Thanks, Fish, for the kind words. It is nice for me to post something worthwhile every once in a while.

 

All the best!

[Leyrann]

 

The idea that there could be some link between the Pattern and the OP is very interesting to me... Fish

Well Ive thought for a while now that the Hundred Weaves amplified by Callandor might repair the thinness of the Pattern at Shayol Ghul, that do anything for you? Speculation of course. If they were a way to strengthen the Pattern it maybe explains why they are required in the test, even if the knowledge behind it was forgotten the weaves have survived. I think Nynaeve will have the idea after the main event.

 

 

Epic theory.