Rand's Curruption

[Andrew the Asha'Man]

Ok i looked (not to extensfully) but i did i swear and didn't see this topic else where. At the beginning of TGH Moiraine tells Suain that she was able to Contain Mat's curruption before it infected anyone else. What if she is wrong. Slowly building from TGH Rand starts to get suspicous of everyone else. He has a hard time trusting many good folk. So here is my thought/theory. It isn't Rand's taint that makes Rand that way but a little pin point of Shadar Logoth attached it shelf to Rand and slowly festered. Yes the taint might of been no help but couldn't that be a good reason?

[claireducky]

Mmm, I think that if Rand even had the smallest speck of Shadar Logoth's corruption in him, he'd be Mordeth by now. That stuff spreads FAST.

[thisguy]

I think Mat's corruption by the dagger and Rand's traveling with Mat may have had something to do with Rand's suspicion, but in a secondary way. It was just another event which he saw and experienced to lead him to believe that the world was full of untrustworthy people.

 

I have wondered why Rand was infected some - if I remember right, the two guys would share body heat when sleeping under shrubs. I mean, they actually put the dagger in the Horn box to protect themselves and others, meanwhile it had to be right next to him when he and Maty were snuggling down under the hedges - or when he was holding Mat and leading him when Mat was half blind etc. But, I don't think that he was actually infected.

 

I think it was finding out he can channel, is the DR, losing friends (mat stopped speaking to him for a while), waking up in strange worlds, having Ba'alzamon dreams, fighting DFs and trollocs and being hunted by DF since he left the Two Rivers - and having to trust a woman he didn't trust to protect him (Moiraine) - that lead to his suspicions.

[kght22]

well he clearly has some of the shadar logoth taint in him (the wound) but he is protected from that. as for during teotw, he was likely only slightly effected by the mordeth taint, and remember that at the start of tgh they had likely been healed, and all of their clothes had been taken away and burned. if just touching something from shadar logoth was enough for a permanent taint then setting foot there would have effected everyone. and perhaps it did, but it doesn't seem all that noticeable, and as i said moiraine knew the risk, and she likely healed them all of the effects as best she could with her angreal.

[Andrew the Asha'Man]

These are things that i have thought as well and Thisguyi agree with you completely. But he just has so much distrust in him its hard to believe that its just from all of that it just reminds me so much of Shadar Logoth

[Whizbang]

I am sure some of his paranoia comes from the SL taint, just as some of his anger and darkness come from the wound in his side and the taint on the OP. I see no reason to assume he has not been tainted by both. Maybe after his epiphany on Dragonmount he gains protection (I believe after this, Nyn delves his brain and sees golden light blocking the taint), but my thoughts are up until then, the two taints were working on him, though their effects were lessened by the various wards placed around the wounds. He needed them, though, to better understand the forces involved so he could clense Saidin and later seal the Bore.

 

Also, Moraine would have clensed everyone several times up until the end of tEotW, just to be sure. Although, maybe she didn't know as much as she thought she did, and so missed some. Also, maybe some damage was permenant from his extended exposure via Mat.

[Damer Sedai]

Its an interesting question, but Rand certainly had enough burdens besides the Taint early in the books to drive him into a deepy cynical, pessimitic, even fatalistic state of mind rife with paranoia. I mean how can you tell if just touching Mat in TEOTW or holding the dagger briefly in TGH caused any problems, when the list of factors that contribute to his state are almost to long to list.

 

From a pure psychosociologic perspective of natural (vs. supernatural causes) we have (roughly chronologically)

- the issues of loss and disconnection of the adoptive child/adult;

- the knowlege of certain madness and death of a male channeler, and the subsequent ostracism from society;

- the burden of being the Chosen One, and worse yet, one that is foretold to bring destruction AND be the worlds only hope (No pressure, tho);

- the despair of having people die for you, through events over which you have no control and as a result of your own mistakes;

- constant combat stress fatigue

- the psychologic strain of the subject of dozens of murder attempts, from high (forsaken, monster out of legend) and low (crazy whitecloak snipers)

- the burden of having ultimate power with no guidance on how to control it, knowing that this lack of control is supremely dangerous to yourself and/or others (no Moiraine, telling him "you must learn how to control it" just isn't helpful!)

- the isolation from your fellow man as an unwilling leader

- mistreated and or violated by supposed allies

- and finally a rip roaring case of post-traumatic stress disorder from "the box" incident

And this is all prior to the Domination Band fiasco

 

(note I wanted to add an item about balancing 3 demanding girlfriends - "3 pretty ladies, run for the hills"; but I decided to keep this sort of serious)

 

This doesnt include other supernatural psychic wounds aside from the Taint, which include

-Dream torture that started in EOTW and became nearly constant in TDR, until IShmael was killed.

-The wound from Fain's dagger

-forcible bonding (although one could argue this was a mixed blessing)

- crossing the streams at Shadar Logoth (insert crusty Ghostbusters joke here)

 

Frankly, I was impressed that prior to TGS, that Rand wasn't MORE impaired... It is my opinion that he held onto his morals,

his reasoning, and his purpose suprisingly well given the level of suck laid at his feet. IMO it was a testament to Rand's innate

fortitude (read: 2 Rivers stubborness), innocence, and moral rectitude that he was able to get as far as he did (with help

from his friends of course) despite these burdens piled one atop another. Add together any three, and you or I wouldnt want to

get up in the morning.

 

RJ wrote a masterful de-evolution of Rand's psychologic and emotional well being over the course of the series, and as someone with

some related professional experience I totally bought the presentation. The Damona Campaign in ACOS is brilliant in this regard,

so I don't think the dagger enters into it either practically (at least not until he was stabbed - we know the killing component was sealed off by my namesake

Damer Flinn, but who knows what sort of psychic leak could be going on, but I doubt it) or thematically.

[Suttree]

The Damona Campaign in ACOS is brilliant in this regard,

 

Some of the best scenes in the entire series.

[Yosarian]

Yeah, I've wondered about that. Rand has been exposed to the Shadar Logoth taint a number of times.

 

-He traveled with Mat for quite a while as he was becoming corrupted. As we know, that is contagious.

 

-He has visited Shadar Logoth a number of times, and even talked to mordeth once.

 

-In The Great Hunt, Rand actually picked up the dagger and briefly carried it, although he put it in the locked chest after a little while.

 

-Finally, he was cut by the dagger later in the hands of Fain, getting a second wound.

 

All of this could definatly be part of why Rand became so paranoid, untrusting, and why his temper got so much worse. By The Dragon Reborn, he was completly different then how he was in the first book, and I don't think the taint on sadin had had enough time yet to have that big of an effect on his sanity.

 

I also wonder if the taint of Sharad Logoth affected Edaida. She spent a fair amount of time being advised by Fain after she became Amyrlin. Remember, in the beginning, being a royal advisor was the main way that Mordoth spread the taint. I think that this influence was part of what made her so crazy and paranoid in the later books; she was never a pleasent person, but she doesn't seem nearly as crazy earlier in the series.

[Suttree]

I also wonder if the taint of Sharad Logoth affected Edaida. She spent a fair amount of time being advised by Fain after she became Amyrlin. Remember, in the beginning, being a royal advisor was the main way that Mordoth spread the taint. I think that this influence was part of what made her so crazy and paranoid in the later books; she was never a pleasent person, but she doesn't seem nearly as crazy earlier in the series.

 

We know that it did per RJ.

[Mr Ares]

All of this could definatly be part of why Rand became so paranoid, untrusting, and why his temper got so much worse. By The Dragon Reborn, he was completly different then how he was in the first book, and I don't think the taint on sadin had had enough time yet to have that big of an effect on his sanity.

Except we know that some men at the BT went crazy within days of touching the Source. So Rand had definitely been exposed to enough of the taint to have an effect.

[Yosarian]

All of this could definatly be part of why Rand became so paranoid, untrusting, and why his temper got so much worse. By The Dragon Reborn, he was completly different then how he was in the first book, and I don't think the taint on sadin had had enough time yet to have that big of an effect on his sanity.

Except we know that some men at the BT went crazy within days of touching the Source. So Rand had definitely been exposed to enough of the taint to have an effect.

 

I believe that at the moment they touched the source to the Dark One, Lewis Therrin and all of the surviving members of his strike team went insane instantly. That's kind of a different situation.

 

But, yes, the taint was affecting Rand over time. One thing I was thinking; when Rand actually clensed the source from the taint, he did that by basically filtering out the entire taint THROUGH HIMSELF. He drank in the ENTIRE taint on sadin while he was doing that. I suspect that that's part of the reason he got so much darker in The Gathering Storm.