Questions from the Town (Spoilers)

[Alonin]

If I remember correctly, Janduin is dead. When the Wise Ones told rand his parents story, the said there were eyewitness reports the Janduin was killed by Slayer/Luc because he refused to raise his spear against someone who looked so similar to Shaiel (who was Tigraine, Luc's sister)

[Durinax]

If I remember correctly, Janduin is dead. When the Wise Ones told rand his parents story, the said there were eyewitness reports the Janduin was killed by Slayer/Luc because he refused to raise his spear against someone who looked so similar to Shaiel (who was Tigraine, Luc's sister)

yes but I think we have enough evidence that they capture people, it seems they capture both channellers and nonchanellers, so a man who wouldn't fight would be pretty easy to capture

[yoniy0]

Yes, but the Maidens (was it Maidens?) who accompanied him said he let himself be killed, not captured.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Yes, but the Maidens (was it Maidens?) who accompanied him said he let himself be killed, not captured.

 

Not that I think Janduin is alive, but they "killed" Luc aswell.

 

I mean, the maidens said that he was killed, but in WoT, such second hand knowledge can be deceiving. Did the maidens stay with him and watch him die? Did they just see him get stabbed and bailed, assuming he was done for?

 

Most likely, killed is killed in this case, but there could be a point, specially when it concerns the Shadow and the Blight.

 

But again, I don't think it is likely, and I certainly hope Janduin doesn't turn up alive somehow.

 

 

 

Protection from the Taint south of the Blight would hardly be pointless. On the contrary. Male DF channelers don't need to advertize that they can channel. The freed Forsaken certainly didn't.

In any case, I don't believe the question of whether or not the Samma N'Sei had the protection against the taint will be conclusively answered in the books. It doesn't make a difference to the rest of the story and BS never showed himself to be interested in those kind of details.

 

Yes, your right, in some circumstances, protection would be useful. Ever since the amnesty. But then it goes back to the DO not trusting random greedy DF Asha'man. Taim is an exception, for his outstanding service, but not your Torvals and Kismans.

 

Before the amnesty when they had to hide, I am not so sure. The Forsaken could hide their ability, but could someone who hasn't been trained? Unless Ishamael had trained them (like most likely Taim) I don't think they would be skilled enough to hide their ability before they were found.

 

But I agree, it doesn't seem like something that will be revealed in aMoL. Perhaps the encyclopaedia might have some information on it, but for now, it is a mystery.

[yoniy0]

Not that I think Janduin is alive, but they "killed" Luc aswell.

Who did? When? As I said, I can't access my books right now, but this doesn't ring familiar.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Not that I think Janduin is alive, but they "killed" Luc aswell.

Who did? When? As I said, I can't access my books right now, but this doesn't ring familiar.

 

Isam killed Luc. (sorry, I didn't specify "they", I just meant the Shadow in general.)

 

From tGH prophecy:

 

Luc came to the Mountains of Dhoom.

Isam waited in the high passes.

The hunt is now begun. The Shadow's hounds now course, and kill.

One did live, and one did die, but both are.

 

 

I suppose it could mean Isam was killed. Either way, one of them "died" but sorta came back.

[yoniy0]

I suppose it could mean Isam was killed. Either way, one of them "died" but sorta came back.

Yeah, well, that's different. I mean, it says "both are" right there, so it's hardly a false report. BTW I never considered that it's more likely Isam killed Luc than the other way around, nor that they necessarily killed each other.

 

Back on point, Janduin might've been mortally wounded, left behind, and then Healed and turned. But isn't that overly convoluted? It would certainly be deus-ex-machina-y, and that wasn't usually RJ's style.

[Barid Bel Medar]

My point with Luc is that we have had someone "die" yet not really die for good. And we have the whole Moiraine dead and Morgase dead thing, it isn't an uncommon theme. However, I agree with you, it would be silly and overly convoluted, just that technically, it could be possible.

 

I think it is more likely Isam killed Luc rather than the other way, I don't think that Luc would have walked straight into a random dual-soul trap type thing. I think it was likely Isam acting on orders. It would certainly be more plausible, Isam brings Luc to Shayol Ghul to do whatever it is that was done. Plus Isam is much more at home in the Blight, and most likely more skilled at killing.

 

I would say that it doesn't really matter at this point, but considering that the death of one was mentioned in prophecy, and the suggestion of Slayer's importance to the LB (with the "rumour" of Gitara sending Luc to the Blight out of necessity) I wonder if it will be of any importance (although I cannot see how).

[yoniy0]

Well, I'll accept that. Although, thinking about it, Tigraine is just as likely to still be alive as Janduin is. And pissed as all hell that Tam stole her baby

[Rose]

Janduin couldn't channel, right? So he couldn't be turned, at least. There's not real reason to capture him, then . . .

[TootThatHorn]

There's no real reason to capture and bring Janduin in to the series now since Rand's emotions and ties are to Tam. Bringing in his biological father does nothing for the story, and wouldn't effect Rand nearly enough. Tam is his father as far as he is concerned, Janduin served his purpose, and is dead.

[Alonin]

Janduin is very likely dead not captured. I doubt the Aiel with Janduin would just randomly bail on him on the account that they are Aiel. They'd be eager to fight. Since they were younger Aiel, they'd be even more eager to fight a dangerous foe. Likely, the only reason they didn't fight Luc is that he did his whole jump into TAR thing and escaped after killing Janduin.

 

Also, if slayer had "consumed" Janduin, I doubt the shadow would squander the advantage of having a clan chief under their control. The shadow knew the Dragon was coming and would then use Janduin to lead his clan against the wetlands to furthen chaos.

 

And for Barid, some characters have died for good. Namely Verin.

[Moridin1977]

Imagine he was Taim using the mask of mirrors

[Bromo Sapien]

All quite true but not much help; it just moves the question back a step to: Why do the Aiel call the DO 'Sightblinder'?

 

They also call It 'Leafblighter' (EotW25) but that one is a bit more understandable, with the Blight next door where they send their male channellers to fight the DO.

 

The Sight Blinders were one of the most interesting developments in the prologue for me. While I doubt the existence of a second Eye, why couldn't Rand end up in the original Eye again? It's found in the Blight, nearish to SG iirc. We know from Moiraine that you can come back multiple times if there's great need and it would bring the series back to where it really started, a major theme in the series obviously. For me, the original contents of the Eye were a bit underwhelming (with the exception of the Horn). Could they have missed something that they need to get during TG and there will be a battle for it between Light forces and Sight Blinders?

 

Also, we never did find out where the Aiel Maiden who delivered the message about the DO trying to blind the Eye came from or where she got the message. Is it possible for there to be a mole in the Town or even the Sight Blinders themselves?

[Durinax]

Janduin couldn't channel, right? So he couldn't be turned, at least. There's not real reason to capture him, then . . .

then he could just be one of the Talentless, it is also stated that the Shadow took slaves to build the town

[Alonin]

Also, Having slayer being Rand's father would be even weirder since Slayer is already Rand's uncle.

[yoniy0]

It was a joke, y'all. It's a Starwars quote.

[FarShainMael]

Janduin couldn't channel, right? So he couldn't be turned, at least. There's not real reason to capture him, then . . .

then he could just be one of the Talentless, it is also stated that the Shadow took slaves to build the town

 

Wacko theory coming up.. I've never been quite satisfied with Janduin's disappearance. According to Amys (TSR34), Shaiel 'found herself with child' during what Amys described as the third year of the search for Laman:

 

"A Maiden is forbidden to carry the spear while she carries a child. But Janduin could forbid her nothing; had she asked for the moon on a necklace, he would have tried to give it to her. So she stayed, and in the last fight, before Tar Valon, she was lost, and the child was lost. Janduin could not forgive himself for not making her obey the law."

 

"He gave up his place as clan chief," Bair said. "No-one had ever done that before. He was told it could not be done, but he simply walked away. He went north with the young men, to hunt Trollocs and Myrddraal in the Blight. It is a thing wild young men do, and maidens with less sense than goats."

 

A couple of odd things here:

 

Bair says nothing about those 'wild young men' being those who found they could channel. Why not? Rather later, when Egwene is explaining to the WO in LoC25 nt to let more than 6 AS attend Rand, she notes in her PoV:

 

Among the Aiel, a man who learned he could channel thought he was chosen, and went north into the Blight to hunt the Dark One; none ever returned.

 

So it's not a matter of being ashamed or afraid of men who could channel.

 

 

But mainly what gets me is this: why on earth would Janduin, who reportedly loved Shaiel to distraction, allow himself to be separated from her when she is heavily pregnant? That doesn't make any sort of sense. I wonder whether he did indeed find he could channel, and decided he was now a danger to her, and left her.

[elmis]

Bair says nothing about those 'wild young men' being those who found they could channel. Why not?

 

There are a few references in the books about regular Aiel going out of the Waste to either hunt Trollocs in the Blight or raid into Shinear and so forth.

 

But mainly what gets me is this: why on earth would Janduin, who reportedly loved Shaiel to distraction, allow himself to be separated from her when she is heavily pregnant? That doesn't make any sort of sense. I wonder whether he did indeed find he could channel, and decided he was now a danger to her, and left her.

 

In war, or specially in battle, people get seperated. I don't see the issue with Janduin seemingly having failed the love of his life, giving up and going with some of the younger kids to seek death in the Blight (though they were more likely going to seek adventure, ji, or what have you).

[FarShainMael]

They were separated before she gave birth. She was still alive. Why didn't Janduin go looking for her before he went off?

[elmis]

Who is to say he didn't look for her? Who is to say that she didn't promise to stay in his tent during the battle (ie. being allowed to be on the campaign, but when you're 9 months pregnant, are you really going to be in the thick of battle?), only for him to come back and not find her? I don't have the books in front of me, but I was under the impression that she died in childbirth, not due to external violence.

 

Thousands died at the Shining Walls, there were several hundred thousand troops in that battle. That is a lot of confusion. Shaiel could have 'escaped' from battle and up the hills towards Dragonmount (probably due to what Gitara told her before she event headed towards the Waste). Janduin could have looked for her for days after they had killed Laman and were disengaging their forces and moving back to the waste without finding her. Dragonmount is huge.

 

I understand the text as he only left for the Blight when the Aiel had returned to the Waste (unless these kids seeking thrills were not sated by a three year campaign in the Wetlands and skulked their way north to the blight directly from the Shining Walls -- which doesn't make much sense to me).

[TootThatHorn]

It was a joke, y'all. It's a Starwars quote.

 

So do we make Elayne or Aviendha to be Leia? lol

 

Edit: Princess parallel

[thisguy]

It was a joke, y'all. It's a Starwars quote.

 

So do we make Elayne or Aviendha to be Leia? lol

 

Edit: Princess parallel

That would make Rand-Luke, Mat-Han Solo, and Perrin-Chewbacca.

[Bromo Sapien]

It was a joke, y'all. It's a Starwars quote.

 

So do we make Elayne or Aviendha to be Leia? lol

 

Edit: Princess parallel

That would make Rand-Luke, Mat-Han Solo, and Perrin-Chewbacca.

 

Rand would have to be Han in that case. Can't do any Luke-Leia shipping (unless Padra et al are coming out with serious issues).

[thisguy]

It was a joke, y'all. It's a Starwars quote.

 

So do we make Elayne or Aviendha to be Leia? lol

 

Edit: Princess parallel

That would make Rand-Luke, Mat-Han Solo, and Perrin-Chewbacca.

 

Rand would have to be Han in that case. Can't do any Luke-Leia shipping (unless Padra et al are coming out with serious issues).

Crap. Good point. We need to rewrite something here....