Spoilers! Chapter One - Eastwards the Winds Blew is up on Tor

[The Fisher King]

That'd be NIFTY!!! :)

 

 

Fish

[FarShainMael]

As 'Justice is /may be/perhaps should be significant to the Seanchan, so Laman's sword carries some significance for the Aiel. I hope it will be positive, and help them accepting Rand's 'price'.

 

I like the thought of Rand giving it to Tam.. but I do wonder how he would react, if indeed he did kill the man..

[Hopefire]

 

I could see it as being their goodbye before they march off to battle. Rand gives his father Laman's sword for his father to defend himself with, Tam admits to Rand about having killed Lamon and talks about how he does have a small idea about what it's like to be forced by the Pattern (maybe hint that Tam was ta'veren - given he killed Laman and found Rand, it seems likely), and talk about finding Rand there in Dragonmount.

 

And then Aviendha, totally impressed by Rand's wisdom in giving the sword to his father, drags Rand off to a tent for some baby-making.

[Neophyte]

Is the suggestion here that Tam killed Laman Damodred?! *sigh*

 

From TFOH, chapter 21, where Aviendha gives the sword to Rand:

 

"It was the treekiller's sword. Laman's. It was taken from his body as proof that he was dead, because his head could not be brought back so far.

 

Why would the Aiel be taking things from Laman's body as proof of the kill if Tam killed him? If Tam killed him, why didn't Tam have Laman's sword? And even if Tam had done the deed, then turned the body over to the Aiel for some strange reason, the Aiel wouldn't claim the kill. Tam would be widely known among the Aiel as the wetlander who killed the Treekiller. Or if he did the deed and ran off, then the Aiel would at least have commented on the fact that a wetlander killed the Treekiller before they could get to him.

 

Tam did not kill Laman Damodred. The Aiel killed Laman Damodred. There is a better chance that Rand's actual father killed Laman than his adoptive father.

[Suttree]

Tam did not kill Laman Damodred. The Aiel killed Laman Damodred. There is a better chance that Rand's actual father killed Laman than his adoptive father.

 

This. Not sure how that idea about Tam would ever gain traction.

[FarShainMael]

@Neophyte: It's discussed here.

[Neophyte]

With all due respect, I don't particularly care where it was discussed - I've read the books.

[Suttree]

With all due respect, I don't particularly care where it was discussed - I've read the books.

 

I've read the discussion. There isn't anything to show it could have been Tam as I'm sure you're already aware.

[Neophyte]

With all due respect, I don't particularly care where it was discussed - I've read the books.

 

I've read the discussion. There isn't anything to show it could have been Tam as I'm sure you're already aware.

 

Oh I looked at it for kicks - and because my mom taught me to always hear the other side out. But there was nothing worth commenting on, so, yeah ...

 

Edit to add: I suppose in the interest of fairness and civil discourse I should elaborate on why I was fairly dismissive. Often when ideas like this comes up, there is an attempt to validate them by indicating that they've been discussed previously. It is something like a rhetorical appeal to collective authority - implying that if the idea was discussed somewhere else, then it should be an idea worth taking seriously.

 

The problem is that some ideas simply aren't worth taking seriously just because they were discussed elsewhere. I don't need a fan discussion to reach a conclusion on this issue, because the books make it very clear. An appeal to a previous discussion, therefore, has no bearing on the current (and previous) silliness of this particular idea.

[FarShainMael]

It wasn't an attempt to 'validate' the idea (which wasn't mine originally anyway) but to supply additional info on the subject, and to direct you to the appropriate thread should you wish to continue that discussion there, rather than hijack this one. But if you don't agree with the idea, that's fine by me.

[thisguy]

I actually don't agree with the theory but think it's a good one nonetheless. It makes sense on first glance.

[Neophyte]

@FarShainMael

 

Very well. It is always a chancy business to parse someone else's intent, which is why I chose the passive voice for my commentary.

 

As for "hijacking the thread," I would have been done after my initial post - which summarized my thoughts on the issue in toto - but I read your choice to "supply additional info" as an attempt to prolong the discussion by validating it. I'm not sure what other purpose it could have, really, but humans can't ever actually get into each other's minds, so people often exhibit behaviors and claim motivations that I find utterly baffling.

 

The one thing that I did want to clear up was that I did not intend to convey any kind of personal animosity through my dismissiveness.

[FarShainMael]

Did you note that I used the word 'if'?

 

I like the thought of Rand giving it to Tam.. but I do wonder how he would react, if indeed he did kill the man..

 

'If' doesn't validate anything.

 

I accept that you meant no personal animosity, BTW.

[thisguy]

There's also this - although, it may not have any bearing on this particular discussion, it's hard to know - there were things that changed from book one through book eleven. Moiraine used a staff to focus her weaves. We haven't seen that anywhere else. For all I know, RJ had thought about Tam having killed Laman at some point and then changed his mind as the story progressed. Maybe, he didn't. I don't know.

[FarShainMael]

Perhaps someone could ask BS..

[thisguy]

I'd love to get my hands on RJ's notes. Unfortunately, if BS found that there was less to guide him through the final books than he had hoped, a lot of what RJ thought may have gone with RJ (RIP).

[Neophyte]

Did you note that I used the word 'if'?

 

I like the thought of Rand giving it to Tam.. but I do wonder how he would react, if indeed he did kill the man..

 

'If' doesn't validate anything.

 

I accept that you meant no personal animosity, BTW.

 

"If" attempts to validate the idea that an idea is worth considering seriously. And you didn't stop there; choosing to supply a source of additional information implies, to me, that you consider the information worth at least looking at - why else would you bother to supply it?

 

Anyway. That's probably more than enough on this subject. Tam definitely did not kill Laman, and I sincerely doubt that it ever crossed RJ's mind that he might have.

[FarShainMael]

'If' does not validate anything.

 

Yes, I considered the info worth looking at; that does not 'validate' it. 'Validate' means 'prove'. The discussion I flagged was exactly that, a discussion.

 

Yes, that's enough on this subject.

[Maleshub]

There's no need for Mat to bring the Seanchan to Rand from what I see and thus no need for such a ridiculous scene. The war will take place on two fronts. One up at the Blight and the other in and around Andor. We already know that there are trollocs in Seanchan controlled lands though we haven't seen many of them. Mat leading the Seanchan against the Shadowspawn in the Westlands while Rand and his troops fight at the Blight. Borderlanders and Aiel- the North and East- fighting together against Moridin's forces while the South and West- Seanchan, Illian, Tear- fight against those who are under Demandred's command.

 

Under that scenario, there's no need for Mat to have Artur Hawkwing's sword, either. That was the only need I was commenting upon.

 

Although frankly, there will have to be some kind of accomodation. Rand is, according to the Karaethon Cycle, supposed to "bind the nine moons to serve him." Since Tuon was the "Daughter of the Nine Moons" before her accession, it seems likely that either she personally or the Seanchan Empire as a whole is "the nine moons." And of course, according to the Essanik Cycle, the Dragon Reborn has to kneel before the Crystal Throne.

 

So, there will be at least one more meeting between Rand and Fortuona. It won't be as simple as "Mat, you take the Seanchan to deal with X. I'm going north."

 

The Nine Moons doesn't refer to Empress's chosen heiress. The Imperial Court in Seandar is referred to as the Court of the Nine Moons. But I don't remember where the reference is at the moment. And Tuon was the Daughter of the Nine Moons before the "I am the Empress" scene. So, it might be that the "Nine Moons" refers to the Seanchan Empress. With that understanding, "binding the Nine Moons" is quite different from "bowing before the Crystal Throne."

[FarShainMael]

I wonder what's become of Olver?

[Maleshub]

Probably helping Setalle Anan do something "important" for Talmanes.

[thisguy]

The last was him running off with a knife towards Caemlyn, wasn't it?

[XXX]

From the time gateways have been introduced in the books, separate travelling areas are kept so that people do not get hurt by opening gateways.In chapter 1 of the last book Egwene casually opens one surprise gateway into Elayne's tent. Elayne if standing in the wrong side would have become chop suey in a second.

[The Fisher King]

When angry, Rand used to do that all the time too. Remember when he did that in Mat's tent and Mat even remarks that if he hadn't jumped quicked as a cat he'd be have been sliced into toast?

 

 

Fish

[Sid]

When angry, Rand used to do that all the time too. Remember when he did that in Mat's tent and Mat even remarks that if he hadn't jumped quicked as a cat he'd be have been sliced into toast?

 

Fish

Well, actually that was in his room at the Golden Stag Inn, in Maerone, and he didn't have to jump out of the way. He did think it was dangerous though.

 

Egwene actually set the gateway for the group that went to Ebou Dar six days away from the city, just so they wouldn't cut some farmer's sheep in half by accident. Traveling to a person's occupied tent is near insanity.