Completely Clean Saidin?

[Alonin]

I've been thinking, is it truly possible for Rand to completely clean Saidin? After all, once Rand grabbed a ton of Saidin, sent it through shadar logoth, the now-clean saidin would go back to the true source, with all the tainted saidin, and just mix with it. So, wouldn't there still be even a little bit of taint left? Thoughts?

[Suttree]

Remember that the taint was described as scum on top of a clean pool. He skimmed the taint of the "surface" of saidin.

 

Saidin is clean, we know that for certain.

[Alonin]

Huh. I always considered the taint just mixed in with saidin, but if the taint just covered the surface, it makes a bit more sense how rand could completely clean it.

[Suttree]

Huh. I always considered the taint just mixed in with saidin, but if the taint just covered the surface, it makes a bit more sense how rand could completely clean it.

 

Yeah, in the books it is always describes as a layer floating on top with the pure power underneath. The problem was you had to reach through it. Here is a better description on how it worked...

Interview: Apr 4th, 2001

 

Leiden Signing Report - Aan'allein (Verbatim)

Isabel

 

Can you give some more details on how the taint was cleansed? I was sort of confused reading the book.

Robert Jordan

 

You don't think it's obvious? Err, let's see. You have... You're using both repulsion and attraction of opposites here. Repulsion of things that are opposite and [attraction] of things that are the same. The Taint upon [saidin] as versus the conduit, which is made of saidar through which the saidin passes. The saidin and saidar, as men and women, are in many ways opposite. It repels one another. It is safe to make this conduit of saidar between saidin and Shadar Logoth, because there can be no mixing. As the eh... as [saidin] passes through, as the taint passes through, the saidar actually repels it, pushes it away from [saidin]..., alright?

Now, you have a taint on... the eh Source, the male half of the Source, you have the taint on Shadar Logoth. They're not the same, yet they are. The taint on Shadar Logoth did not come from the Dark One. The taint was created by humans, who believed that they must do whatever was necessary, anything that was necessary to defeat the Shadow. And because they would accept no limits to what they would do, to what could be done, to what needed to be done, they created their own destruction. Their evil is, or was, as great as that of the Dark One, but diametrically opposite. It is an evil created for the best of intentions, created for good intentions. So it is the opposite. So, this attraction created the conduit begins to pull the taint from [saidin] to siphon it off. Remember, it's always been described it's not as mixed all through [saidin], it is like a thin skin of rancidness, think of a thin skin of rancid oil floating on a pond, and if you get through it, you've got clean water, but you can't get through it without putting your hand in that oil. You're getting it on your hand...

To attract one another because they are opposites, but because even being opposite, they have gone far enough around the circle, they act to destroy one another. You see, it's not opposites along a straight line. We're actually talking opposites along a circle. Continuing the motif of the Wheel of Time, if you will. So you've got two things that are both opposites and the same. [He's been waving his hands in the air for this. Hands far apart for the straight line versus hands together, making a circle and coming together again] That will both attract one another and negate one another.

[avernite]

Plus, I seem to recall at some point the black dome started to suck in Taint faster than just the power being channelled into it.

[Agitel]

Plus, I seem to recall at some point the black dome started to suck in Taint faster than just the power being channelled into it.

 

Rand basically created a siphon. Once he got it flowing he just had to maintain the source and let the taint strain itself off.

[Orderofolde]

I've been thinking, is it truly possible for Rand to completely clean Saidin? After all, once Rand grabbed a ton of Saidin, sent it through shadar logoth, the now-clean saidin would go back to the true source, with all the tainted saidin, and just mix with it. So, wouldn't there still be even a little bit of taint left? Thoughts?

Also remember that the taint was described as shifting into the channel Rand created into the bubble over Shadar Logoth. The taint was coaxed to flow after itself. Also remember the dynamics of the one power. RJ described it as not infinite, it can come close to being used up, but also said it replenishes itself. The amount of power that was being used, it was close to being all used up. Both CK, Callandor, Angreals and Ter'angreals in use, the forsaken channelling...there might be the faintest trace, but doubtful Every male channeler describes the source without the foul scum or taint any longer. Even the Ashaman with Perrin noted the difference without knowing what Rand had done.

[jsbrads]

Source not used up in cleansing.

 

1. not possible, powers universe

2. drives wheel of time, did time stop or slow?

3. RJ said so

 

used a ton, but preferentially the taint after flow began

[Hagazussa]

The way I have always believed it works is that the power is like a pool, it is not used up when someone channels, energy can not be used up, think of a lake, if you have allot of things being done with it, mills, dams and so on then what water is in the lake will diminish for a while, but the water will flow back into the lake eventually or at the very least it will evaporate and come back as rain, so that it is possible that if all the channelers where working at maximum at the same time that there might be to little power to go around, though there is allot of it, that is at least how I see it.

 

And yeah we are talking about a magick hamburger here channeler---taint---clean source, so all Rand had to do was get rid of the taint. Also even if the source is infinite, which it might be then basically what he did was a counter spell getting rid of what the Dark One did in the first place and you might not really need to flow all of the Power through your cleansing system to do that, just enough to get rid of the effect in the first place. It is magick it might not work with the normal laws of physics.

[Durinax]

Plus, I seem to recall at some point the black dome started to suck in Taint faster than just the power being channelled into it.

 

Rand basically created a siphon. Once he got it flowing he just had to maintain the source and let the taint strain itself off.

this.

 

and for the usage things, I see it more as a fountain, you have the basin at the bottom, then no matter how much you draw through the fountain internals it will return to the same source

[Darksmoon]

Something I never thought of before that the taint on saidin and the taint on Shadar Logoth destroyed each other and the two injuries in Rands side feature the same forces. Why did the two 'forces' of injury in Rands side not destroy each other and let him be healed?

[Luckers]

Something I never thought of before that the taint on saidin and the taint on Shadar Logoth destroyed each other and the two injuries in Rands side feature the same forces. Why did the two 'forces' of injury in Rands side not destroy each other and let him be healed?

 

That was actually the idea behind what Flinn did to Rand after Fain stabbed him--warding them away from him and letting them duke it out with each other. It didn't seem to cause them to destroy each other, but it did save Rand's life, so that was a plus.

[jsbrads]

Something I never thought of before that the taint on saidin and the taint on Shadar Logoth destroyed each other and the two injuries in Rands side feature the same forces. Why did the two 'forces' of injury in Rands side not destroy each other and let him be healed?

 

They may destroy each other eventually, not enough time has passed

maybe nynaeve has to go back in with a male channeler and together create a new ward around the outside with a connecting tube between two sides