Say The Worst Possible Thing Happens...

[Suttree]

Egwene will claim Cad's ter'angreal as the Amyrlin Seat because she's a stickler and all ter'angreals and such belong to the tower.

 

Actually this is one of Eggy's better reforms. Per the channeler exchange program the bolded is no longer the case. Egwene saw the need for sharing items of power with all the different groups.

[Vardar]

Ok, I suppose this is the one you're referring to in the other thread, thanks.

 

So then how is the lightining being directed? The only way to ensure it strike it's target would be to set the weave to create perfect charged particles at 2 points, one starting from your body (I'd assume) and one at the place you want struck. How the issue with this is even if this is so, the range of the attack would be extremely limited, since the "weave" as it were would have to go from you to the target you want hit. Fireballs can be thrown, or pushed and aimed, being lighter than air, they travel in a certain direction, thus when you throw it, you essentially tie it off (again, assuming, trying to rationalize it).

 

So the problems I see with your conclusion are thus:

 

1) If the lightning is an effect, and the power is only used to create charged particles, it still means Mat/Cads/Ny/Golem cannot be attacked directly by Lightning, since you'd have to place the charged particle on them to ensure they were struck. (you could be reasonably certain they would be struck by placing it near them, but how close can the power get to them before unweaving?)

 

2) If you're just creating the two charged particles near each other to make lightning (I.e. range doesn't matter because you just create the charge and let it go off) how the hell are you aiming that? Seems like a lot of people would die from errant strikes. A whole lot.

 

3) How did Eggy "Set up" the weaves without letting them go? Create 2 uncharged particles? What is she presetting (Air maybe)? Was she really going ot unleash that in a small room with lots of metal around, perhaps metal on their bodies? Again, this seems like a real danger.

 

4) The distance issue. We know you can only affect what you can see right? If you're not just creating a bolt and hoping it'll go in a general direciton (Again, hella unsafe) then you're extending a "thread" of power to whatever your target is and then charging particles to let the lightning run it's course. Lightning would become a short range attack.

 

I had one more, but my boss interrupted me and I can't remember :(. I'll think on it.

 

I'm guessing there are no quotes on this (Otherwise someone would have broken them out already).

 

I think we may be worrying a little too much about actual mechanics here ... I know that Jordan was a physicist by training, and that he tried to keep channeling pseudo-scientific in the sense of rules and consequences, but ultimately this is magic we're talking about. None, or at least very few, of the effects we've observed from channeling actually do have safe real world correlates - you go on (accurately) at some length about the (very real) dangers of lightning at close quarters, but creating a ball of fire (or a sword of fire, for that matter) in your hand is not exactly safe either. (And ripping holes in spacetime should be pretty darned dangerous as well - gateways are effectively wormholes, and there are reasons that we can't make those and keep them stable.)

 

I guess what I'm saying is that suspension of disbelief has to come in here at some point. We can't explain the effects of channeling in purely real world terms because channeling doesn't exist in the real world. For the purposes of the story, there comes a point where the things that work do so because the author says that they do.

 

This applies in all directions on these arguments, by the way. Luckers says that "the bolt is not the weave" because "A lightning bolt is, after all, just charged electrons making the leap to the ground themselves." But by that logic, fire is just energy released from chemical combustion. The weaves should just provide the initial energy to start the reaction (and create the fuel?), and you could throw a fireball at the gholam (or Mat), release the controlling weave (of compressed air? do we know what holds it in a cohesive ball?) a moment before impact (when inertia will carry the burning ... fuel? ... into the target) and watch the sucker burn down from 100% all-natural fire.

 

Or maybe both Power-wrought lightning and fireballs don't behave exactly like the phenomena we observe in the real world (after all, having a lightning bolt spring from your hand should burn you to a crisp too ....)

 

The truth is, we don't know, with precision, where the "weave" leaves off and the observed "effect" begins. They are pretty much always intermingled in a way that leaves the author free to do what he wants with it. Like most any magic system, there is enough ambiguity to let the author create the desired effect, since the author made the rules to begin with. As to whether an appropriate application of lightning could have killed the gholam, we can speculate, but I don't think anyone can say "yes" or "no" with 100% certainty.

 

Personally, I was hoping they'd blow it in half with a cannon dragon. Or maybe Mat would shove a Nightflower down it's throat.

 

I understand what you're saying sir, I was just trying to rationalize why I saw it as two different weaves used to make lightning and how one would affect Matrim and one wouldn't.

[TristanWebb]

I always saw it as 'if you stopped channeling and the effect goes away then it won't touch Mat'. If you were shielded and a fireball was halfway from you to the enemy, it would vanish as the energy to sustain it comes from the Source. Lightning seems to be the same as holding a rock up. The effect is started by the Power, but if you cut flow energy still comes from nature rather than the Source.

[thisguy]

I really don't remember the book well at all, but if the power cannot touch Mat while he's wearing the foxhead medallion, how did the balefire that killed him and did not kill him kill him. Was he dead before the balefire hit?

[Suttree]

I really don't remember the book well at all, but if the power cannot touch Mat while he's wearing the foxhead medallion, how did the balefire that killed him and did not kill him kill him. Was he dead before the balefire hit?

 

Mat was hit by a lightning bolt. That is what killed him...

[thisguy]

I really don't remember the book well at all, but if the power cannot touch Mat while he's wearing the foxhead medallion, how did the balefire that killed him and did not kill him kill him. Was he dead before the balefire hit?

 

Mat was hit by a lightning bolt. That is what killed him...

Thank you. Right, that's what you guys have been discussing. HAHA. It's Monday. Sorry.

[Neophyte]

I understand what you're saying sir, I was just trying to rationalize why I saw it as two different weaves used to make lightning and how one would affect Matrim and one wouldn't.

 

I guess that was my point. There isn't a point in trying to rationalize it, because we don't have a fully developed "science" of weaving that integrates with what we know of physics - there is no Grand Unified Theory of the Wheel of Time (or if there is, we don't have it).

 

We also don't have enough details about how Mat died. Did the lightning hit him directly? Is lightning woven of "Fire and Air" by a man as part of a warding trap different than lightning woven by Egwene? (I would say almost certainly yes.) Exactly how do they differ? We just don't have enough information on the different weaves and how they interact with the world to provide a reasonable basis for "rationalization."

 

Although what are these forums for if not speculating on the unknowable? Maybe I should just stop throwing a wrench in the works.

[thisguy]

I understand what you're saying sir, I was just trying to rationalize why I saw it as two different weaves used to make lightning and how one would affect Matrim and one wouldn't.

 

I guess that was my point. There isn't a point in trying to rationalize it, because we don't have a fully developed "science" of weaving that integrates with what we know of physics - there is no Grand Unified Theory of the Wheel of Time (or if there is, we don't have it).

 

We also don't have enough details about how Mat died. Did the lightning hit him directly? Is lightning woven of "Fire and Air" by a man as part of a warding trap different than lightning woven by Egwene? (I would say almost certainly yes.) Exactly how do they differ? We just don't have enough information on the different weaves and how they interact with the world to provide a reasonable basis for "rationalization."

 

Although what are these forums for if not speculating on the unknowable? Maybe I should just stop throwing a wrench in the works.

I agree with what you've said her, including the last part. I've thought of saying something similar and then realized everybody's just having fun bs-ing. But, yeah, we have no idea, really, how the power works or how the medallion stops it.

[shortkut]

Ok, I suppose this is the one you're referring to in the other thread, thanks.

 

So then how is the lightining being directed? The only way to ensure it strike it's target would be to set the weave to create perfect charged particles at 2 points, one starting from your body (I'd assume) and one at the place you want struck. How the issue with this is even if this is so, the range of the attack would be extremely limited, since the "weave" as it were would have to go from you to the target you want hit. Fireballs can be thrown, or pushed and aimed, being lighter than air, they travel in a certain direction, thus when you throw it, you essentially tie it off (again, assuming, trying to rationalize it).

 

So the problems I see with your conclusion are thus:

 

1) If the lightning is an effect, and the power is only used to create charged particles, it still means Mat/Cads/Ny/Golem cannot be attacked directly by Lightning, since you'd have to place the charged particle on them to ensure they were struck. (you could be reasonably certain they would be struck by placing it near them, but how close can the power get to them before unweaving?)

 

2) If you're just creating the two charged particles near each other to make lightning (I.e. range doesn't matter because you just create the charge and let it go off) how the hell are you aiming that? Seems like a lot of people would die from errant strikes. A whole lot.

 

3) How did Eggy "Set up" the weaves without letting them go? Create 2 uncharged particles? What is she presetting (Air maybe)? Was she really going ot unleash that in a small room with lots of metal around, perhaps metal on their bodies? Again, this seems like a real danger.

 

4) The distance issue. We know you can only affect what you can see right? If you're not just creating a bolt and hoping it'll go in a general direciton (Again, hella unsafe) then you're extending a "thread" of power to whatever your target is and then charging particles to let the lightning run it's course. Lightning would become a short range attack.

 

I had one more, but my boss interrupted me and I can't remember :(. I'll think on it.

 

I'm guessing there are no quotes on this (Otherwise someone would have broken them out already).

 

I think we may be worrying a little too much about actual mechanics here ... I know that Jordan was a physicist by training, and that he tried to keep channeling pseudo-scientific in the sense of rules and consequences, but ultimately this is magic we're talking about. None, or at least very few, of the effects we've observed from channeling actually do have safe real world correlates - you go on (accurately) at some length about the (very real) dangers of lightning at close quarters, but creating a ball of fire (or a sword of fire, for that matter) in your hand is not exactly safe either. (And ripping holes in spacetime should be pretty darned dangerous as well - gateways are effectively wormholes, and there are reasons that we can't make those and keep them stable.)

 

I guess what I'm saying is that suspension of disbelief has to come in here at some point. We can't explain the effects of channeling in purely real world terms because channeling doesn't exist in the real world. For the purposes of the story, there comes a point where the things that work do so because the author says that they do.

 

This applies in all directions on these arguments, by the way. Luckers says that "the bolt is not the weave" because "A lightning bolt is, after all, just charged electrons making the leap to the ground themselves." But by that logic, fire is just energy released from chemical combustion. The weaves should just provide the initial energy to start the reaction (and create the fuel?), and you could throw a fireball at the gholam (or Mat), release the controlling weave (of compressed air? do we know what holds it in a cohesive ball?) a moment before impact (when inertia will carry the burning ... fuel? ... into the target) and watch the sucker burn down from 100% all-natural fire.

 

Or maybe both Power-wrought lightning and fireballs don't behave exactly like the phenomena we observe in the real world (after all, having a lightning bolt spring from your hand should burn you to a crisp too ....)

 

The truth is, we don't know, with precision, where the "weave" leaves off and the observed "effect" begins. They are pretty much always intermingled in a way that leaves the author free to do what he wants with it. Like most any magic system, there is enough ambiguity to let the author create the desired effect, since the author made the rules to begin with. As to whether an appropriate application of lightning could have killed the gholam, we can speculate, but I don't think anyone can say "yes" or "no" with 100% certainty.

 

Personally, I was hoping they'd blow it in half with a cannon dragon. Or maybe Mat would shove a Nightflower down it's throat.

that was the reasoning behind my earlier post about everything being an effect. i was just too lazy to type what you did :D

[Vardar]

I always saw it as 'if you stopped channeling and the effect goes away then it won't touch Mat'. If you were shielded and a fireball was halfway from you to the enemy, it would vanish as the energy to sustain it comes from the Source. Lightning seems to be the same as holding a rock up. The effect is started by the Power, but if you cut flow energy still comes from nature rather than the Source.

Really? Once you throw it, I thought it would still travel because it's a tied off weave. IT's not like you're maintaining it all the way to the target. (hence why it can miss)

[Vardar]

I understand what you're saying sir, I was just trying to rationalize why I saw it as two different weaves used to make lightning and how one would affect Matrim and one wouldn't.

 

I guess that was my point. There isn't a point in trying to rationalize it, because we don't have a fully developed "science" of weaving that integrates with what we know of physics - there is no Grand Unified Theory of the Wheel of Time (or if there is, we don't have it).

 

We also don't have enough details about how Mat died. Did the lightning hit him directly? Is lightning woven of "Fire and Air" by a man as part of a warding trap different than lightning woven by Egwene? (I would say almost certainly yes.) Exactly how do they differ? We just don't have enough information on the different weaves and how they interact with the world to provide a reasonable basis for "rationalization."

 

Although what are these forums for if not speculating on the unknowable? Maybe I should just stop throwing a wrench in the works.

 

 

It was the AOE lightning (The kind Rand and Co were using earlier).Wait, it was a trap? (I missed that part)

[Neophyte]

I understand what you're saying sir, I was just trying to rationalize why I saw it as two different weaves used to make lightning and how one would affect Matrim and one wouldn't.

 

I guess that was my point. There isn't a point in trying to rationalize it, because we don't have a fully developed "science" of weaving that integrates with what we know of physics - there is no Grand Unified Theory of the Wheel of Time (or if there is, we don't have it).

 

We also don't have enough details about how Mat died. Did the lightning hit him directly? Is lightning woven of "Fire and Air" by a man as part of a warding trap different than lightning woven by Egwene? (I would say almost certainly yes.) Exactly how do they differ? We just don't have enough information on the different weaves and how they interact with the world to provide a reasonable basis for "rationalization."

 

Although what are these forums for if not speculating on the unknowable? Maybe I should just stop throwing a wrench in the works.

 

 

It was the AOE lightning (The kind Rand and Co were using earlier).Wait, it was a trap? (I missed that part)

 

Well, I don't have my books in front of me, but didn't Rand think that it was a warding set up by Rahvin to be tripped if a man channeled in the city? I don't think the lightning that struck Rand's forces there was directly woven by Rahvin at the time. I thought Rand tripped a trap and the lightning was it. Rahvin certainly wasn't within sight of them at the time - he was chillin' in the throne room.

 

Maybe I'm not remembering it accurately. I guess I can check when I get home. But even if it wasn't a trap, there would still likely be differences between saidin and saidar based lightning.

 

Edit: Update - Now that I've got my books, I was mixing my Forsaken. I was thinking of Rand's comments about how he thought Sammael would have Illian "warded in boxes" from LoC. I still think that Rahvin had a trap set - after all, the Shadowspawn were literally on top of Rand's group mere moments after he arrived, but I don't know if the lightning was from a warded trap or not. Regardless, it looks like Mat was not hit directly. Given the descriptions of the bodies, Natael/Asmodean, Mat, and Aviendha seem to have all been standing fairly close together, and Asmodean got hit directly. His body is a nearly unrecognizable "twisted shape of char." Mat's clothing is smoldering, and his boots have been blown off, but he's still mostly intact, though dead. Aviendha appears untouched, but is dead as well - from the fall perhaps? Anyway, Mat appears to have been in close proximity to Asmodean, who got hit directly ... for whatever that is worth.

[Mulk]

The Worst Thing Possible with WoT would be...

 

Brandon, Maria and Peter (and anyone else attached to the project with encylopedic knowledge of the book) all perish in a hideous accident involving pizza and weasels and simultaneously power surges purge the hard drives on which every copy of AMOL is currently stored, thus depriving us of the ending for all time to come.

 

:)

 

Sorry, Luckers, I had to. Toward the point of the thread, I think the most likely candidates are probably Elayne (for study and replication), or Moiraine (the only other "living legend"). I exclude Nynaeve because she has a set already (on loan to Alivia) that is similar, and I exclude Alivia because she is wearing Nynaeve's set and will be until the main threat is dealt with. I also lean against Moiraine simply because the reasoning for Nynaeve not wearing hers at the moment (if indeed there is one beyond the fact that she will be linked with Rand through Callandor) would likely apply to Moiraine, but not enough to discount it entirely. I lean most toward Elayne simply because replicating a thing like the paralis net would be a huge advantage against enemy channelers, of which the Seanchan have many, and it would be a boon against any surviving dreadlords, black ajah and Forsaken after the Last Battle is over - and I am assuming that all of the bad people won't miraculously die at once and that there will be trollocs, myrddraal and the like to fight still once the Dark One is sealed up. That doesn't explain how Elayne would get hold of it or even how much she would be able to do with it until she has her kids, but it's the best option I can come up with. It doesn't seem likely to me, for whatever reason, that it would go to Egwene.

[Luckers]

The reason lightning was never used is as simple as that none of the characters really knew. Mat might have been able to figure it out, depending both on how much he remembers post balefire, and indeed how much he'd let himself remember--but he evidentally doesn't. Joline might have been able to figure it out based on the fact that the Seanchan stun-gun electrical weave worked in KoD, but she evidentally didn't--and it is a bit of a step for someone with no understanding of electrons or electricity.

 

So yeah... none of the characters knew. It's probable even the Forsaken didn't realise--though this may well be how Cyndane managed to burn Alivia--they'd have the education, but not the experience of having seen a ter'angreal like this work.

 

but isnt the bolt the weave? if this is explained somewhere else, please just give me a link so i stop obsessing here.

 

No, the bolt is not the weave. A lightning bolt is, after all, just charged electrons making the leap to ground themselves. In this case it is the One Power providing the charge, and perhaps funneling or aiming them in that leap.

 

It's actually precisely the same as the way solar energy works, only instead of the sun providing the energy, its the one power. But sun or Power, its the electrons that then move, and it was the electrons that struck Mat.

 

Actually, there are two types of lighting weaves used in the books. In book 3, Eggy sets the weaves for lighting, it's a direct weave. In book 4, Eggy/Avi/Rand set clouds to make lighting for them. They mention it's easier to use what's already there.

 

I'd assume the direct weave lighting Eggy and Elayne set up would be stopped by the amulets, much like fire, but the cloud version, the AOE version woudln't.

 

Let me know what you think of that. (The weave version was used post Eggy's training with the Seanchan. She set the weaves, and held them ready. and Elayne copied her, I can dig up quotes if need be, I'm hoping you remember them so I don't have to go back).

 

Nope, whether you use clouds already in existence (and the charged electrons that go with) or you charge the electrons yourself, the lightning bolt is an effect, not the direct weave itself. The former may be easier for the channeler than the latter, but even the latter doesn't change the laws of physics.

has that been confirmed because with that logic almost everything becomes an effect

 

Almost everything with channeling IS an effect. The question is does the effect need the continued presence of the Power to sustain its existence. So, when you bind someone with Air, what is happening is that molecules in the air are being influenced so that they form with enough consistancy around you that you cannot move through them (Siuan makes this very clear in tGH: "She held up her hand - Egwene gasped, and even Nynaeve's eyes bulged - and there was a sword in it. With blade and hilt of an odd bluish white, it looked somehow . . . cold. "Made from the air, child, with Air."--and there are several other repititions of the same statements later--'Air' (capital--of the Five Powers) incites 'the air' (non-capital--the gas) into the form), or when you throw a fire ball Fire is creating the heat and Air is gathering the oxygen to fuel it--but in both these cases if you remove the Power catalyst the effect will disipate.

 

With throwing a rock, the power has provided the catalyst and the force at the point of origen--once in motion the kinetic force of the rock takes over and doesn't need the Power to maintain--so get rid of the Power and the rock still has its effect. Creating lightning is much the same, only further along--rather than providing the force the Power is simply providing the energy--once that energy reaches a certain point the electrons then provide there own force and make the leap all on their own.

 

So yes, almost everything with the Power is an effect--there are exceptions, shields for instance seem purely to be of the Power and have no functional influence on the phyiscal world--the question is whether that effect can exist without the Powers on going presence to sustain it, or whether the Power has simply catalysed the effect. With Lightning, as with throwing the rock, the Power is simply the catalyst, and from there the Laws of Physics take over.

 

Ok, I suppose this is the one you're referring to in the other thread, thanks.

 

So then how is the lightining being directed? The only way to ensure it strike it's target would be to set the weave to create perfect charged particles at 2 points, one starting from your body (I'd assume) and one at the place you want struck. How the issue with this is even if this is so, the range of the attack would be extremely limited, since the "weave" as it were would have to go from you to the target you want hit. Fireballs can be thrown, or pushed and aimed, being lighter than air, they travel in a certain direction, thus when you throw it, you essentially tie it off (again, assuming, trying to rationalize it).

 

So the problems I see with your conclusion are thus:

 

1) If the lightning is an effect, and the power is only used to create charged particles, it still means Mat/Cads/Ny/Golem cannot be attacked directly by Lightning, since you'd have to place the charged particle on them to ensure they were struck. (you could be reasonably certain they would be struck by placing it near them, but how close can the power get to them before unweaving?)

 

2) If you're just creating the two charged particles near each other to make lightning (I.e. range doesn't matter because you just create the charge and let it go off) how the hell are you aiming that? Seems like a lot of people would die from errant strikes. A whole lot.

 

3) How did Eggy "Set up" the weaves without letting them go? Create 2 uncharged particles? What is she presetting (Air maybe)? Was she really going ot unleash that in a small room with lots of metal around, perhaps metal on their bodies? Again, this seems like a real danger.

 

4) The distance issue. We know you can only affect what you can see right? If you're not just creating a bolt and hoping it'll go in a general direciton (Again, hella unsafe) then you're extending a "thread" of power to whatever your target is and then charging particles to let the lightning run it's course. Lightning would become a short range attack.

 

I had one more, but my boss interrupted me and I can't remember :(. I'll think on it.

 

I'm guessing there are no quotes on this (Otherwise someone would have broken them out already).

 

Well, Rahvin's strikes were blind so targeting was not a problem, and yet we do know that electrical discharge can be specifically targeted, without directly touching the target (this occurs with the Seanchan stun-gun weave). Theoretically it's possible to funnel an electrical discharge (and indeed this is how a shocklance works), which is my guess for how this occurs. The other option is that it is not the target which is polarized, but the ground under their feet. This may escape Mat's protection, but overall I consider it less likely, which especially given we've already seen the funneling in the books.

 

But yes, the exact mechanics of the targeting remain uncertain.

[Vardar]

Well, Rahvin's strikes were blind so targeting was not a problem, and yet we do know that electrical discharge can be specifically targeted, without directly touching the target (this occurs with the Seanchan stun-gun weave). Theoretically it's possible to funnel an electrical discharge (and indeed this is how a shocklance works), which is my guess for how this occurs. The other option is that it is not the target which is polarized, but the ground under their feet. This may escape Mat's protection, but overall I consider it less likely, which especially given we've already seen the funneling in the books.

 

But yes, the exact mechanics of the targeting remain uncertain.

 

Stun gun weave?

ipb.global.registerReputation( 'rep_post_2482810', { domLikeStripId: 'like_post_2482810', app: 'forums', type: 'pid', typeid: '2482810' }, parseInt('') );

[Luckers]

Stun gun weave?

 

The electrical weave Bethamin uses to stun Joline. Joline later uses it successfully on Mat. It has a very similar effect to the 'shocklance pistol' Asne uses on Elayne and co. which is another localized electrical effect, hence why I believe the targetting of electrical effect weaves is just that--aiming.

[Vardar]

Stun gun weave?

 

The electrical weave Bethamin uses to stun Joline. Joline later uses it successfully on Mat. It has a very similar effect to the 'shocklance pistol' Asne uses on Elayne and co. which is another localized electrical effect, hence why I believe the targetting of electrical effect weaves is just that--aiming.

 

Wait, she used it on Mat? You mean the little sparkling lights? I thought it failed to work on mat.

[Luckers]

I mean the sparks, yes, and it worked just fine on Mat.

[Vardar]

I mean the sparks, yes, and it worked just fine on Mat.

 

Are you positive? Do you recal what book it was? I could have sworn I recall it melting away when it touched Mat, and they being shocked by it.

 

Winter's heart?

[Neophyte]

Stun gun weave?

 

The electrical weave Bethamin uses to stun Joline. Joline later uses it successfully on Mat. It has a very similar effect to the 'shocklance pistol' Asne uses on Elayne and co. which is another localized electrical effect, hence why I believe the targetting of electrical effect weaves is just that--aiming.

 

Wait, she used it on Mat? You mean the little sparkling lights? I thought it failed to work on mat.

 

From KoD, chapter 9, Mat's pov:

 

If the show was halted, he could hardly turn around without seeing Joline or Edesina peering around the corner of a tent or wagon at him. Usually, the foxhead cooled on his chest. He could not prove they were actually channeling at him, yet he was certain of it. He was unsure which of them found the loophole in his protection that Adeleas and Vandene had, that something thrown with the Power would hit him, but after that, he could barely leave his tent without getting hit by a rock, and later, by other things, burning sparks like a shower from a forge fire, stinging sparks that made him leap and his hair try to stand on end. He was positive that Joline was behind it. If for no other reason, he never saw her without Blaeric or Fen or both nearby for protection. And she smiled at him like a cat smiling at a mouse.

 

I'm not sure that the weave is exactly the same one that Bethamin used (two chapters earlier), but the description is very similar. It seems to create a charged field in an area that discharges somewhat randomly. This may be reading too much into it, but the description from Mat's pov seems slightly milder than the "sparks dancing all over the three of us" used to describe Bethamin's weaving. Whether the difference is caused by the medallion or by Joline taking it easy (or if there is no real difference) I don't know.

[Vardar]

Stun gun weave?

 

The electrical weave Bethamin uses to stun Joline. Joline later uses it successfully on Mat. It has a very similar effect to the 'shocklance pistol' Asne uses on Elayne and co. which is another localized electrical effect, hence why I believe the targetting of electrical effect weaves is just that--aiming.

 

Wait, she used it on Mat? You mean the little sparkling lights? I thought it failed to work on mat.

 

From KoD, chapter 9, Mat's pov:

 

If the show was halted, he could hardly turn around without seeing Joline or Edesina peering around the corner of a tent or wagon at him. Usually, the foxhead cooled on his chest. He could not prove they were actually channeling at him, yet he was certain of it. He was unsure which of them found the loophole in his protection that Adeleas and Vandene had, that something thrown with the Power would hit him, but after that, he could barely leave his tent without getting hit by a rock, and later, by other things, burning sparks like a shower from a forge fire, stinging sparks that made him leap and his hair try to stand on end. He was positive that Joline was behind it. If for no other reason, he never saw her without Blaeric or Fen or both nearby for protection. And she smiled at him like a cat smiling at a mouse.

 

I'm not sure that the weave is exactly the same one that Bethamin used (two chapters earlier), but the description is very similar. It seems to create a charged field in an area that discharges somewhat randomly. This may be reading too much into it, but the description from Mat's pov seems slightly milder than the "sparks dancing all over the three of us" used to describe Bethamin's weaving. Whether the difference is caused by the medallion or by Joline taking it easy (or if there is no real difference) I don't know.

 

Hmm. I always pictures her throwing ash at him.

 

Thanks good sir! That is intriguing.

 

I was speaking of a moment in the tent where he walked in and they channeled it at him and nothing happened.

[Suttree]

Stun gun weave?

 

The electrical weave Bethamin uses to stun Joline. Joline later uses it successfully on Mat. It has a very similar effect to the 'shocklance pistol' Asne uses on Elayne and co. which is another localized electrical effect, hence why I believe the targetting of electrical effect weaves is just that--aiming.

 

Wait, she used it on Mat? You mean the little sparkling lights? I thought it failed to work on mat.

 

From KoD, chapter 9, Mat's pov:

 

If the show was halted, he could hardly turn around without seeing Joline or Edesina peering around the corner of a tent or wagon at him. Usually, the foxhead cooled on his chest. He could not prove they were actually channeling at him, yet he was certain of it. He was unsure which of them found the loophole in his protection that Adeleas and Vandene had, that something thrown with the Power would hit him, but after that, he could barely leave his tent without getting hit by a rock, and later, by other things, burning sparks like a shower from a forge fire, stinging sparks that made him leap and his hair try to stand on end. He was positive that Joline was behind it. If for no other reason, he never saw her without Blaeric or Fen or both nearby for protection. And she smiled at him like a cat smiling at a mouse.

 

I'm not sure that the weave is exactly the same one that Bethamin used (two chapters earlier), but the description is very similar. It seems to create a charged field in an area that discharges somewhat randomly. This may be reading too much into it, but the description from Mat's pov seems slightly milder than the "sparks dancing all over the three of us" used to describe Bethamin's weaving. Whether the difference is caused by the medallion or by Joline taking it easy (or if there is no real difference) I don't know.

 

Hmm. I always pictures her throwing ash at him.

 

Thanks good sir! That is intriguing.

 

I was speaking of a moment in the tent where he walked in and they channeled it at him and nothing happened.

 

The result of which was all that experimentation...

[Orderofolde]

ok well paint me blue and call me betty, but how did mat get lightning bolted if his amulet blocks the power? I've read FoH more than any other book in the world...I love it because Failes not in it, but anyway...yes?

 

I vaguely recall that Halima thing...maybe it was a mistake. haha.

Saidin called the lightening, the lightning formed and struck of its own accord, it was nature, not a direct weaving of Saidin, just like the thrown stone thing, though I kind of think this cuts it too close as it was a clear sky and not a gathered storm that produced it. I think it could have been better written to not create the doubt.

[The Fisher King]

I think the most fair analogy here is to look at what Teslyn did in Towers of Midnight and use that as the gauge.

 

 

Fish

[Luckers]

ok well paint me blue and call me betty, but how did mat get lightning bolted if his amulet blocks the power? I've read FoH more than any other book in the world...I love it because Failes not in it, but anyway...yes?

 

I vaguely recall that Halima thing...maybe it was a mistake. haha.

Saidin called the lightening, the lightning formed and struck of its own accord, it was nature, not a direct weaving of Saidin, just like the thrown stone thing, though I kind of think this cuts it too close as it was a clear sky and not a gathered storm that produced it. I think it could have been better written to not create the doubt.

 

Whether a clear sky or cloudy it makes no difference, except that using clouds makes calling lightning less work for the channeler. There's no real confusion here--this has been consistent with every description of an electrical effect in the series.