Perspectives you dont want to see and you want to see

[Vardar]

For me, The absolute worst part of the series was reading Dark Rand after using the TP. It was a worse reading than the Faile rescue and Elayne's succession.

 

One of the things that show how low Rand's morality has gone was his imprisonment of the Guild of Merchants member, a woman, in a solitary confinement cell, without light, and with food unfit for animals. The man who prided himself in his weakness of not hurting women, did something abhorrent to that woman. And he did it for something that isn't her fault. He knew that Graendal was his adversary; and punished the poor woman for Graendal's cleverness.

 

Towards the end of his Dark Days, even Min couldn't stand staying around him. And that tells volumes!

 

He gave her unfit food? (I really don't recall that part, maybe I blanked it out). I thought he just kept her in one of the cells she choose to keep people, and he didn't exactly know just how bad it was.

 

And I don't see how treating all people equally is a lack of morals. Look at the trouble his insistence to put women on a pedestal has caused thus far. It was a horrible and easily exploited weakness.

[TyphoonBlade]

I just want less oversaturated POVs in amol. TOM had a lot of unnecessary Perrin and Galad POVs, and while Perrin was very bad a-- fighting slayer, those POVs of him and Galad doing nothing but thinking of each other were highly annoying.

 

Gawyn's POVs annoyed me the most because you'd think with the amount he had you could at least begin to sympathize with his character, which I started to when he was with Elayne but once he left the boat he started acting irrational again.

 

I most want to see:

Rand's POV, Mat, Perrin (in moderation), Min,

Tuon, Aviendha, Elayne, Egwene, and Moiraine, Karede, Bashere

 

 

 

 

[Maleshub]

For me, The absolute worst part of the series was reading Dark Rand after using the TP. It was a worse reading than the Faile rescue and Elayne's succession.

 

One of the things that show how low Rand's morality has gone was his imprisonment of the Guild of Merchants member, a woman, in a solitary confinement cell, without light, and with food unfit for animals. The man who prided himself in his weakness of not hurting women, did something abhorrent to that woman. And he did it for something that isn't her fault. He knew that Graendal was his adversary; and punished the poor woman for Graendal's cleverness.

 

Towards the end of his Dark Days, even Min couldn't stand staying around him. And that tells volumes!

 

He gave her unfit food? (I really don't recall that part, maybe I blanked it out). I thought he just kept her in one of the cells she choose to keep people, and he didn't exactly know just how bad it was.

 

And I don't see how treating all people equally is a lack of morals. Look at the trouble his insistence to put women on a pedestal has caused thus far. It was a horrible and easily exploited weakness.

 

Oh, he knew how bad the cells were; or could have guessed. He imprisoned her there as punishment for her failure to secure the life of his only access to learning Graendal's place. What he did to her consciously was putting her in a box like the one Elaida put him in .... small cell, no company, no light, etc for days, if not weeks. She was denied water to clean and had a bucket to use as a "necessary."

 

What was the charge? Being outwitted by Graendal ... which can be easily put on Rand as well.

[Durinax]

For me, The absolute worst part of the series was reading Dark Rand after using the TP. It was a worse reading than the Faile rescue and Elayne's succession.

 

One of the things that show how low Rand's morality has gone was his imprisonment of the Guild of Merchants member, a woman, in a solitary confinement cell, without light, and with food unfit for animals. The man who prided himself in his weakness of not hurting women, did something abhorrent to that woman. And he did it for something that isn't her fault. He knew that Graendal was his adversary; and punished the poor woman for Graendal's cleverness.

 

Towards the end of his Dark Days, even Min couldn't stand staying around him. And that tells volumes!

 

He gave her unfit food? (I really don't recall that part, maybe I blanked it out). I thought he just kept her in one of the cells she choose to keep people, and he didn't exactly know just how bad it was.

 

And I don't see how treating all people equally is a lack of morals. Look at the trouble his insistence to put women on a pedestal has caused thus far. It was a horrible and easily exploited weakness.

 

Oh, he knew how bad the cells were; or could have guessed. He imprisoned her there as punishment for her failure to secure the live of his only access to learning Graendal's place. What he did to her consciously was putting her in a box like the one Elaida put him in .... small cell, no company, no light, etc for days, if not weeks. She was denied water to clean and had a bucket to use as a "necessary."

 

What was the charge? Being outwitted by Graendal ... which can be easily put on Rand as well.

it was her personal 'truth' centre. As such she was responsible for the people there and what happened. She got punished for failing.

[Suttree]

For me, The absolute worst part of the series was reading Dark Rand after using the TP. It was a worse reading than the Faile rescue and Elayne's succession.

 

One of the things that show how low Rand's morality has gone was his imprisonment of the Guild of Merchants member, a woman, in a solitary confinement cell, without light, and with food unfit for animals. The man who prided himself in his weakness of not hurting women, did something abhorrent to that woman. And he did it for something that isn't her fault. He knew that Graendal was his adversary; and punished the poor woman for Graendal's cleverness.

 

Towards the end of his Dark Days, even Min couldn't stand staying around him. And that tells volumes!

 

He gave her unfit food? (I really don't recall that part, maybe I blanked it out). I thought he just kept her in one of the cells she choose to keep people, and he didn't exactly know just how bad it was.

 

And I don't see how treating all people equally is a lack of morals. Look at the trouble his insistence to put women on a pedestal has caused thus far. It was a horrible and easily exploited weakness.

 

Oh, he knew how bad the cells were; or could have guessed. He imprisoned her there as punishment for her failure to secure the live of his only access to learning Graendal's place. What he did to her consciously was putting her in a box like the one Elaida put him in .... small cell, no company, no light, etc for days, if not weeks. She was denied water to clean and had a bucket to use as a "necessary."

 

What was the charge? Being outwitted by Graendal ... which can be easily put on Rand as well.

it was her personal 'truth' centre. As such she was responsible for the people there and what happened. She got punished for failing.

 

Eye for an eye a Durinax? Forget was she under compulsion as well?

[Maleshub]

it was her personal 'truth' centre. As such she was responsible for the people there and what happened. She got punished for failing.

 

I don't know what a "truth center" is. So, I'll have to ask you to explain it to me. But the rest of the statement is difficult to swallow from a moral perspective. The punishment for failure to save the life of one of Graendal's pets is solitary confinement, no light, sleeping with a refuse bucket nearby, etc... Regardless that this punishment is more suitable for treason ... But I wonder what you think Alsalam's punishment should be for failing to remain in Arad Doman; or what should Rand's punishment be for the dragonsworm plague caused in his name; or what should be his punishment for betraying the Light and using the True Power?

[Durinax]

it was her personal 'truth' centre. As such she was responsible for the people there and what happened. She got punished for failing.

 

I don't know what a "truth center" is. So, I'll have to ask you to explain it to me. But the rest of the statement is difficult to swallow from a moral perspective. The punishment for failure to save the life of one of Graendal's pets is solitary confinement, no light, sleeping with a refuse bucket nearby, etc... Regardless that this punishment is more suitable for treason ... But I wonder what you think Alsalam's punishment should be for failing to remain in Arad Doman; or what should Rand's punishment be for the dragonsworm plague caused in his name; or what should be his punishment for betraying the Light and using the True Power?

a 'truth' centre is where they forcefully interrogate a person until they tell the truth.

 

the fact the prisoner was graendals pet is not the point, the point is that the prisoner was the only one who could tie together everything with what happened to Alsalam and she allowed poison to slip through. Alsalam was also kidnapped, although his retainers should be punished for not keeping the king safe, as the Maidens where punished for not keeping Rand safe in the same(ish) situation. Rand IMO did not necessarily betray the light, he was very close but he had not crossed the line quite yet, using the TP was punishment enough after we saw what the addiction put him through. As for the dragonsworn there where many of them before and after rands declaration and IMO the nobles have made him pay for more than enough with all their scheming

[Vardar]

For me, The absolute worst part of the series was reading Dark Rand after using the TP. It was a worse reading than the Faile rescue and Elayne's succession.

 

One of the things that show how low Rand's morality has gone was his imprisonment of the Guild of Merchants member, a woman, in a solitary confinement cell, without light, and with food unfit for animals. The man who prided himself in his weakness of not hurting women, did something abhorrent to that woman. And he did it for something that isn't her fault. He knew that Graendal was his adversary; and punished the poor woman for Graendal's cleverness.

 

Towards the end of his Dark Days, even Min couldn't stand staying around him. And that tells volumes!

 

He gave her unfit food? (I really don't recall that part, maybe I blanked it out). I thought he just kept her in one of the cells she choose to keep people, and he didn't exactly know just how bad it was.

 

And I don't see how treating all people equally is a lack of morals. Look at the trouble his insistence to put women on a pedestal has caused thus far. It was a horrible and easily exploited weakness.

 

Oh, he knew how bad the cells were; or could have guessed. He imprisoned her there as punishment for her failure to secure the life of his only access to learning Graendal's place. What he did to her consciously was putting her in a box like the one Elaida put him in .... small cell, no company, no light, etc for days, if not weeks. She was denied water to clean and had a bucket to use as a "necessary."

 

What was the charge? Being outwitted by Graendal ... which can be easily put on Rand as well.

 

I read it as, if it's your jail, treat you like you treat others. If you're willing to imprision people there, obviously it's fit for you. (If you mistreat people there, then you must be willing to let yourself be mistreated).

 

I liked it, and certainly don't call it immorale. It's like saying it's immorale to put someone up someplace they own, like their guest house. It's justice!

[Maleshub]

I read it as, if it's your jail, treat you like you treat others. If you're willing to imprision people there, obviously it's fit for you. (If you mistreat people there, then you must be willing to let yourself be mistreated).

 

I liked it, and certainly don't call it immorale. It's like saying it's immorale to put someone up someplace they own, like their guest house. It's justice!

 

The jail conditions used for criminals and darkfriends should be the same for inept officials, who were outwitted by the most devious of the Foresaken?!!! Would you throw Morgase in the same cell for allowing Rahvin to have Caemlyn? Or do you think that a woodcutter who evades the Queen's tax on woodcutting should be beheaded?

[Durinax]

I read it as, if it's your jail, treat you like you treat others. If you're willing to imprision people there, obviously it's fit for you. (If you mistreat people there, then you must be willing to let yourself be mistreated).

 

I liked it, and certainly don't call it immorale. It's like saying it's immorale to put someone up someplace they own, like their guest house. It's justice!

 

The jail conditions used for criminals and darkfriends should be the same for inept officials, who were outwitted by the most devious of the Foresaken?!!! Would you throw Morgase in the same cell for allowing Rahvin to have Caemlyn? Or do you think that a woodcutter who evades the Queen's tax on woodcutting should be beheaded?

that wasn't a prison for criminals, it was a prison for political prisoners so she could torture them for information in order to gain advantage. It was for any poor sap who was asked to bring a message that she got curious about who was behind the message

[Vardar]

I read it as, if it's your jail, treat you like you treat others. If you're willing to imprision people there, obviously it's fit for you. (If you mistreat people there, then you must be willing to let yourself be mistreated).

 

I liked it, and certainly don't call it immorale. It's like saying it's immorale to put someone up someplace they own, like their guest house. It's justice!

 

The jail conditions used for criminals and darkfriends should be the same for inept officials, who were outwitted by the most devious of the Foresaken?!!! Would you throw Morgase in the same cell for allowing Rahvin to have Caemlyn? Or do you think that a woodcutter who evades the Queen's tax on woodcutting should be beheaded?

 

The conditions of her personal jail are her responsibility right? She choose to keep the jails in that posiiton. If she made a mistake, and Rand needed to hold her, what better spot that her own personal jail.

 

The basic jist of what I am saying is treat others like you would want to be treated. If Mograse needed to held, I would assume her cells are clean and sanitary, and thus there would be no problem.

 

Durinax says it pretty well too. I mean, those weren't even the city jails, they were her own personal holding cells for people who pissed her off. It's so ironic.

[Suttree]

I read it as, if it's your jail, treat you like you treat others. If you're willing to imprision people there, obviously it's fit for you. (If you mistreat people there, then you must be willing to let yourself be mistreated).

 

I liked it, and certainly don't call it immorale. It's like saying it's immorale to put someone up someplace they own, like their guest house. It's justice!

 

The jail conditions used for criminals and darkfriends should be the same for inept officials, who were outwitted by the most devious of the Foresaken?!!! Would you throw Morgase in the same cell for allowing Rahvin to have Caemlyn? Or do you think that a woodcutter who evades the Queen's tax on woodcutting should be beheaded?

 

The conditions of her personal jail are her responsibility right? She choose to keep the jails in that posiiton. If she made a mistake, and Rand needed to hold her, what better spot that her own personal jail.

 

The basic jist of what I am saying is treat others like you would want to be treated. If Mograse needed to held, I would assume her cells are clean and sanitary, and thus there would be no problem.

 

Durinax says it pretty well too. I mean, those weren't even the city jails, they were her own personal holding cells for people who pissed her off. It's so ironic.

 

Eye for an eye has been proven over history to not be the ideal way to handle justice. Not to mention he threatened to kill her when she was no longer useful.

[Vardar]

I read it as, if it's your jail, treat you like you treat others. If you're willing to imprision people there, obviously it's fit for you. (If you mistreat people there, then you must be willing to let yourself be mistreated).

 

I liked it, and certainly don't call it immorale. It's like saying it's immorale to put someone up someplace they own, like their guest house. It's justice!

 

The jail conditions used for criminals and darkfriends should be the same for inept officials, who were outwitted by the most devious of the Foresaken?!!! Would you throw Morgase in the same cell for allowing Rahvin to have Caemlyn? Or do you think that a woodcutter who evades the Queen's tax on woodcutting should be beheaded?

 

The conditions of her personal jail are her responsibility right? She choose to keep the jails in that posiiton. If she made a mistake, and Rand needed to hold her, what better spot that her own personal jail.

 

The basic jist of what I am saying is treat others like you would want to be treated. If Mograse needed to held, I would assume her cells are clean and sanitary, and thus there would be no problem.

 

Durinax says it pretty well too. I mean, those weren't even the city jails, they were her own personal holding cells for people who pissed her off. It's so ironic.

 

Eye for an eye has been proven over history to not be the ideal way to handle justice. Not to mention he threatened to kill her when she was no longer useful.

 

But is that technically an eye for an eye.

 

If she mantained her cells properly this wouldn't be a problem. I see it more as her doing it to herself. How can you complain about conditions you put other people in?

 

And I wouldn't say an eye for an eye isn't ideal, we just switched eye for an eye to and eye for sit your ass in jail. (With exceptions, some places still do eye for an eye and a lot of places do it for murder)

[XoMeltdownoX]

In game theory the tit for tat scenario works best. An eye for an eye can be construed as tit for tat.

 

An eye for an eye is an over simplification of the ancient near east codes of law. It did not always mean the same physical punishment for the crime, but an equivalent punishment. So it could equate to an eye for sit your backside in jail.

[Vardar]

In game theory the tit for tat scenario works best. An eye for an eye can be construed as tit for tat.

 

An eye for an eye is an over simplification of the ancient near east codes of law. It did not always mean the same physical punishment for the crime, but an equivalent punishment. So it could equate to an eye for sit your backside in jail.

 

Ok then. In that case, I wholeheartedly approve.

 

In mind I see it more of a "You cook two dinners, one for you and one for your guest, if I switch plates with you, it's not suddenly torture is it" type situation.

[thisguy]

In game theory the tit for tat scenario works best. An eye for an eye can be construed as tit for tat.

 

An eye for an eye is an over simplification of the ancient near east codes of law. It did not always mean the same physical punishment for the crime, but an equivalent punishment. So it could equate to an eye for sit your backside in jail.

Exactly correct. Steal something, lose a hand. Yup yup

[XoMeltdownoX]

In game theory the tit for tat scenario works best. An eye for an eye can be construed as tit for tat.

 

An eye for an eye is an over simplification of the ancient near east codes of law. It did not always mean the same physical punishment for the crime, but an equivalent punishment. So it could equate to an eye for sit your backside in jail.

Exactly correct. Steal something, lose a hand. Yup yup

I think that is more modern Islamic law. I was referring to the Code of Hammurabi and later codes based on this (code of Ur-Nammu, Laws of Mosses, etc).

 

One of the arguments I have heard put forth is that the Code of Hammurabi was designed to minimize the bloodshed. An "eye for an eye" meant one person was penalized for a crime instead of setting off tribal/clan blood feuds.

 

Edit: it also meant that a sliding scale was put in place so the punishment fit the crime.