Seanchan?

[Aiden King]

I was reading tSR again, and came across something one of the Sailmistresses said.

 

 

He can wield the One Power, so I have heard, and he holds the Sword That Cannot Be Touched. The Aiel have come over the Dragonwall to his call; I have seen several in the streets, and it is said they fill the Stone. The Stone of Tear has fallen, and war breaks over the nations of the land. Those who once ruled have returned, and been driven back for the first time. Prophecy is being fulfilled.

[tSR: The Wavedancer]

 

Those who once ruled clearly refers to the Seanchan, and them being driven back for the first time is clearly talking about Falme. The wording 'for the first time' strongly implies it will happen a second time. (Unless it already has happened a second time and I am just blanking, boy that would be embarrassing...)

[bcspeer]

them being driven back a second time? It might happen but now they are in too deep to be driven completely out. They have settlers who have set up villages in Altara, Amadicia, Tarabon, Almoth Plain and probably other places. The Taraboners and Altarans now accept and want the Seanchan authority and the Amadicians might but I think they still want the Seanchan out. We also have Aviendha's visions of the future that indicate the Seanchan will take over the Westlands and Waste and possibly even Shara but these visions might never come to happen.

[Aiden King]

Are there any thoughts on the nature of Aviendha's visions? Are they like Min's in the sense that regardless of what you do it will happen, or is it a case of now that Aviendha has seen that she can now prevent it?

[TristanWebb]

The implication is it is more certain than the Rings that show how your life could go many different ways, and more certain than Dreaming which shows important stuff that might happen, but not as certain as Foretelling and Min's visions which will come true.

[Sharaman]

We know very little about the Jendai prophesies of the Seafolk.

[Lisa Campbell]

I was reading tSR again, and came across something one of the Sailmistresses said.

 

 

He can wield the One Power, so I have heard, and he holds the Sword That Cannot Be Touched. The Aiel have come over the Dragonwall to his call; I have seen several in the streets, and it is said they fill the Stone. The Stone of Tear has fallen, and war breaks over the nations of the land. Those who once ruled have returned, and been driven back for the first time. Prophecy is being fulfilled.

[tSR: The Wavedancer]

 

Those who once ruled clearly refers to the Seanchan, and them being driven back for the first time is clearly talking about Falme. The wording 'for the first time' strongly implies it will happen a second time. (Unless it already has happened a second time and I am just blanking, boy that would be embarrassing...)

 

I think maybe the 2nd time was when Rand drove them back on the border (or close to) of Illian.

[Iroquois Pliskin]

I was reading tSR again, and came across something one of the Sailmistresses said.

 

 

He can wield the One Power, so I have heard, and he holds the Sword That Cannot Be Touched. The Aiel have come over the Dragonwall to his call; I have seen several in the streets, and it is said they fill the Stone. The Stone of Tear has fallen, and war breaks over the nations of the land. Those who once ruled have returned, and been driven back for the first time. Prophecy is being fulfilled.

[tSR: The Wavedancer]

 

Those who once ruled clearly refers to the Seanchan, and them being driven back for the first time is clearly talking about Falme. The wording 'for the first time' strongly implies it will happen a second time. (Unless it already has happened a second time and I am just blanking, boy that would be embarrassing...)

 

I think this is kind of being interpreted wrong, it's not saying "for the first time" as in anticipation of a second time. It's saying "for the first time" as in the Seanchan are supposed to be the Ever-Victorious Army, they haven't ever been soundly defeated, and this was the first time they tried to conquer somewhere and were driven back. But I could be wrong.

[slatanic1]

I think this is kind of being interpreted wrong, it's not saying "for the first time" as in anticipation of a second time. It's saying "for the first time" as in the Seanchan are supposed to be the Ever-Victorious Army, they haven't ever been soundly defeated, and this was the first time they tried to conquer somewhere and were driven back. But I could be wrong.

 

That makes sense, now that you mention it. I tend to agree with you.

[LoLPoR]

That's also how I interpreted it, however I love a good argument so will somebody please start to debate against it.

[Neophyte]

That's also how I interpreted it, however I love a good argument so will somebody please start to debate against it.

 

Well, if you really want me to ...

 

That whole "Ever Victorious Army" bit is called propaganda. Various Seanchan forces have been temporarily beaten many times. There is the whole long history of the Consolidation, which lasted hundreds of years - it would be revisionist history of the worst kind to pretend that they were never "driven back" even once in that whole time.

 

I think it all but impossible that the armies of Luthair and his successors did not suffer at least one Falme-sized setback during the long history of the Seanchan Empire. That would mean that "for the first time" would have to refer to the battles fought on the main continent of the story, since those are the lands where the Seanchan are fighting in the time period with which the prophecy is concerned. This would imply a sequence (the first time since coming to these lands, to be followed by others) rather than a state (defeated for the first time ever in all of history).

 

I think Elci may have this right - the encounter with BonkersRand in Illian, while not an out and out victory for our hero, definitely drove the Seanchan back a second time.