To Live You Must Die

[dhammett11]

"Dead men can't betray anyone.... But sometimes they don't die."

- LTT, PoD

 

He's correct of course, that sometimes the dead live on in T'A'R' as Heroes of the Horn. But the Heroes of the Horn refer by definition to Pattern-approved Most-Valorous-Of-Dead-Heroes. The hope is that dead men who betray work against their own chances of ever being chosen. Imagine blowing the Horn right when you could use a hundred or so legendary heroes only to be greeted by single Nae'blis. What a poor, lucky fool you must be, Horn-Blower found (Do you see where I'm heading yet folks?)

 

So. Rand confronts the Dark One at Shayol Ghul, dies according to plan, but somehow Moridin uses the balefire-link between them to steal Rand's Horny-Dragon-status, probably by invoking Need or other general Dreamer know-how. How would team Light beat this? The luckiest horn blast imaginable? The swift strike a hammer.?

[elric]

i dont understand why ppl insist to disregard the obvious gun on the table ?

 

Rand is 2 ppl merged together.

 

he is the Dragon Reborn Rand Althor and he is The Dragon Luis Terin.

it was said that being 2 ppl is Rand Madness

i also beliewve that LTT is the light Nynev felt when she tried to heal Rand Madness

in Order for Rand to live LTT must die. (and if i recall correctly LTT not only want to die , rand also promise him he will).

[Terez]

Rand is Lews Therin. They're not two people merged into one; they're the same person who lived many different lives. Lews Therin can't die unless Rand dies.

[elric]

when Rand fought in Tar he saw LTT as a diffrent person.

and untill the later books LTT concious was diffrent then rand , they literally fought over controll of the body.

 

i always so it as 2 diffrent personality sharin g the same body.

 

now after the storm in Tar rand appear to be fully merged but i get the feel that its not the end of it and that in the end LTT personality still have a role to fill

[Terez]

when Rand fought in Tar he saw LTT as a diffrent person.

 

Perception is not reality.

 

and untill the later books LTT concious was diffrent then rand , they literally fought over controll of the body.

 

Rand was insane. As Rand said on Dragonmount, they were not two men and never had been.

[he who comes with a bong]

I think he will die, and the way that he continues to live, is in the peoples memory of him. thats my 2 cents ive always thought this also. thats how i would do it for sure.

[Jong]

I just wanted to point out that we already have an apparently fulfilled prophecy regarding resurrection, Mat was "To die, and live again, and live once more a part of what was." He ends up coming back twice, in Rhuidean, he is hung him from the Tree of Life and Rand gives him the Heimlich to bring him back. The second time is at the end of TFOH, when Mat gets fried in the attack on Caemlyn and is ends up being ok after Rand balefires Rahvin. In neither case are elaborate methods used to pull him from TAR or using actual one power healing. So apparently to meet the letter of prophecy, not all that much is really needed to be done.

 

Just saying.

[Suttree]

I just wanted to point out that we already have an apparently fulfilled prophecy regarding resurrection Mat was "To die, and live again, and live once more a part of what was." He ends up coming back twice, in Rhuidean he is hung him from the Tree of Life and Rand gives him the Heimlich to bring him back.

 

He comes back only once, per RJ he was never dead in Rhuidean. The Rahvin lightning strike fulfills the prophecy for Mat

[Terez]

I just wanted to point out that we already have an apparently fulfilled prophecy regarding resurrection, Mat was "To die, and live again, and live once more a part of what was." He ends up coming back twice, in Rhuidean, he is hung him from the Tree of Life and Rand gives him the Heimlich to bring him back. The second time is at the end of TFOH, when Mat gets fried in the attack on Caemlyn and is ends up being ok after Rand balefires Rahvin. In neither case are elaborate methods used to pull him from TAR or using actual one power healing. So apparently to meet the letter of prophecy, not all that much is really needed to be done.

 

Just saying.

 

As Suttree said, only the balefire incident counts, and that is listed as one of the poll options. It's just not very likely to fulfill Rand's prophecy because there doesn't seem to be any point to him dying if it's just going to be undone as if it never happened. So, if he has to die to sever the link with Moridin, for example, resurrection-by-balefire would undo the severing just as it undid the killing. Which totally defeats the purpose. I mean, sure, it's important for Rand to be alive, particularly if he dies before he has finished the job, but there has to be some point to him dying in the first place or it's a pretty lame plot device.

[Mik]

Rand is Lews Therin. They're not two people merged into one; they're the same person who lived many different lives. Lews Therin can't die unless Rand dies.

Argh.

Let's cut that into little pieces to adress them properly:

 

Rand is Lews Therin....

Rand is not Lews Therin.

 

Lews Therin is the man known as the Dragon, that is Reborn as prophesy -the Pattern- demanded on Dragonmount.

He is the same personality he was in the Age of Legends. The Dragon accidently trapped his own Mind when he sealed the Bore (probably the location of the Dragon Soul) and when he overloaded on Saidin to form Dragonmount. That's why prophesy demanded he'd be Reborn at the location where the Dragon had died at a time when the Seals were very weak.

At that specific place and at that specific time -and only there and then- there was enough time left for the Dragon Mind to re-attach to it's own Soul again (since the self-made barrier between his own Soul and his Mind would be weak) and to become a person again that could seal away the Shadow as was designed by the Creator.

 

Rand al'Thor is the boy that the Pattern needed for the Dragon's mind to make it to the Last Battle. He is the unfortunate hero that was born with the Soul that binds the Shadow -the Dragon Soul-, but with a fresh new Mind abd Body, born like any normal person. Spun into the Pattern by the Wheel as every Thread is. He needed to be as stubborn and strong-willed as possible to have a small shot at resisting the direct influence of the Shadow that would do anything -anyhting- to find the Reborn Soul of the Dragon and make that boy crack under the preasure and somehow bend knee / choose the Shadow, so Shai'tan could directly touch the Dragon Soul abd break free from it's prison; inside the Dragon Soul.

 

They both are the Dragon Reborn, for different aspects of their being.

Rand for being born with the Dragon Soul.

Lews Therin for having his living self-trapped Mind (that survived all this time) Reborn when his Soul was born at the place where it left him about threethousand years earlier.

 

Only one is the Dragon though; Lews Therin.

 

They're not two people merged into one;..

Totally agree with this.

The Dragon Reborn is a Thread made up of one very specific Soul, one Body and two, distict, living Minds.

 

...they're the same person who lived many different lives.

Aaack! Totally disagree with this one!

They're two different persons / personalities that share the same Soul at the same time.

What's unique about the Dragon Reborn in this spinning into the Pattern is that this Soul now supports two living Minds, whereas usually, it -and every other soul- supports just one living Mind

 

Rand and Lews Therin both are able to think at the same time. That's unique.

Thought is the arrow of Time. Not memory. Memory just never fades. And it's clear thought of the memory of Light that will bind the Shadow as it was designd by the Creator. (see some other posts of mine for that)

 

Lews Therin can't die unless Rand dies.

We've seen that RJ thinks that the Pattern can and is going to support someone that is both dead and alive at the same time. It already did and does, because you can call Lews Therin being dead and alive already, depending at the angle of approach;

Lews Therin as a man died; when he created Dragonmount.

Lews Therin as a personality lives; when said personality -through it's living mind- found his soul back. (or his Soul -through the Pattern/ prophesy) found his Mind back..semantics, I guess.

 

So yes, Lews Therin can't die his so deserved final death he so often laments about, unless Rand is at the same place: at the Heart of the Dark.

Again -technically- anyone actually being at the Heart of the Dark is dead, but -as we see through RJ's words by the Nicola's Foretelling- Rand will be alive at the same time.

 

 

when Rand fought in Tar he saw LTT as a diffrent person.

 

Perception is not reality.

Rand didn't percieve it wrong when Lews Therin managed to grab Saidin instead of Rand's mind in KoD.

Rand had to move the Body (because we know per Shaidar Haran when he explains to the 'gars what happened to them that 'the Mind bends to the Body'), but Lews Therins living Mind controlled the Power.

It wasn't Rand's perception that Hawkwing -a Hero of the Horn with loads of Hero's there to overhear- adressed him as Lews Therin that 'did not know himself yet'.

It wasn't Rand's perception that Gitarra had such a strong Foretelling the moment Lews Therin was reborn, that she dropped dead right after.

Lews Therin -and only Lews Therin- is the actual Dragon.

 

Like I said earlier, both Rand and Lews Therin can be considered 'the Dragon Reborn' for different reasons.

 

and untill the later books LTT concious was diffrent then rand , they literally fought over controll of the body.

Rand was insane.

So, when did he become insane then? Right at the start of the series, when he recognises Ishy even before ever touching Saidin? Doesn't make any sense. Lews Therin was there before Rand ever touched the source. Lews Therin was already there before Rand had the slightest chance of playing the insanity card.

Or how did Rand his insanity affect Gitarra when she screamed that "The Dragon takes his first breath on the slope of Dragonmount"...?

Lews Therin's mind -the part of you that does all the active thinking and holds your memories- has been a part of the same Thread as Rand was born with the moment he was born, because else Gitarra could never have had a Foretelling the same instant declaring that 'the Dragon draws breath'.

 

Just because Rand is affected by the pressure put on him by both the Shadow and people who want to control him and because he is affected by the Taint more and more during the story, does not mean Lews Therin's thoughts are fake.

 

As Rand said on Dragonmount, they were not two men and never had been.

You post it like it's supposed to be some sort of proof of Lews Therin's active thoughts being a figment of Rand's immagination, but clearly it's not.

Rand said it right indeed; the were not two men and never had been.

The Dragon Reborn is one man; Born as one Soul, one Body and two distinct, living Minds that have to figure out a way to defeat the Shadow now that both Minds are free.

 

Cheers,

Mik

[FarShainMael]

'They're two different persons / personalities that share the same Soul at the same time.' Exactly.

 

Thus spake RJ:

 

QUESTION

 

The question is, with Rand and Lews Therin, do they have one soul or two souls in the body?

 

ROBERT JORDAN

 

They have one soul with two personalities. The reincarnation of souls does not mean reincarnation of personalities. The personality develops with each reincarnation of the soul. This is the cosmology that I have cobbled together.

 

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=151#3

[Suttree]

'They're two different persons / personalities that share the same Soul at the same time.' Exactly.

 

Thus spake RJ:

 

QUESTION

 

The question is, with Rand and Lews Therin, do they have one soul or two souls in the body?

 

ROBERT JORDAN

 

They have one soul with two personalities. The reincarnation of souls does not mean reincarnation of personalities. The personality develops with each reincarnation of the soul. This is the cosmology that I have cobbled together.

 

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=151#3

 

A person and a personality are two very different things.

 

@Mik

 

Love the passion buddy but these things need to be presented as a theory. You do realize your interpretation is fairly out there correct? You are going to give some noob a heart attack.

[Mik]

A person and a personality are two very different things.

That doesn't hurt what I'm trying to say; it supports it.

I'm actually the one saying that the Dragon Reborn -as a man/ person/ being/ whatever- has two distinct, living personalities..instead of just one.

I prefer to call the personality a Mind, because it's a term that's used in the books by Moiraine & Moridin that actually support my views.

(For instance, Moiraine mentions early in TEotW that it takes a 'living mind'to be able to channel)

 

Terez stated Rand is a person with actually one personality, that invented a fake personality (LTT) based on just a (growing) bag of LTT memories.

And as a reason, you guys mention 'insanity'. I 'm pointing out how wrong it is to think that the Dragon Reborn only has one real personality and how it's not possible -if we just assume for a sec that the Dragon Reborn as a person has only one personality- that even the reason -insanity- can't be the reason, because your immaginary LTT shows up before Rand has a plausible excuse to start going bonkers.

 

I'm saying that's ..well.. that that's wrong (and doesn't do the story any justice at all), based on that RJ quote that FSM posted alone!

 

Sut, you shouldn't be zooming in on how a person does not equal a personality (and you're right there, but that isn't an argument against what I'm saying!), but instead you should wonder how you guys actually say that all 'a personality' is, is a 'bag of memories'.

A personality =/= bag of memories!

A personality = a living, thinking, choice making, conscience with it's memories!

 

The key differences are Life, Choice & Thought. A Mind has those.

 

"The reincarnation of souls does not mean reincarnation of personalities."

Translated: each time a Soul is woven into the Pattern, it get's a clean, fresh slate to start with as a Mind.

 

"The personality develops with each reincarnation of the soul."

Translated: A single Mind develops (based on choices / events / whatnot) over time for each time that same Soul is woven into the Pattern.

Note that it's not a plural; "The personality"...not personalities.

 

"They have one soul with two personalities."

Oh my. This is actually killing the 'Rand is insane' argument in this case. Because the argument actually means 'Rand invented a fake personality'. That doesn't fit with what RJ tell us at all.

He doesn't say he has one Soul with one Mind (and that insane Mind invents a fake Mind). RJ says they have one Soul (namely the same Dragon Soul) and two Minds.

 

So my question to you is two-fold, Sut;

1) Do you honestly think you could call 'a personality' a 'bag of memories'? (because at the heart of it, that's actually what you are saying, I think)

2) Given that you can explain point 1, how do you explain RJ saying that one Soul has two personalities, whereas you say Rand is making one up? (regardless the reason(s) you have for Rand making one up)

 

 

@Mik

Love the passion buddy but these things need to be presented as a theory. You do realize your interpretation is fairly out there correct? You are going to give some noob a heart attack.

Thanks man.

What's in a name, Sut? If it makes you happy, I'd like to call everything I post a theory. We're all passionate about WoT here, else we wouldn't be here.

 

I don't see my reasoning as being 'fairly out there', but I do see your point; others viewing it so.

I have lot's of experiences here (and also on Wotmania/ Rafo and even Theoryland) that what I read as 'the simplest solution to all the factors', isn't viewed like that by a lot of others. I tread a lot lighter these days then I did -say- 8 years ago.

But what do you propose I should change / do different then?

 

It's how I read WoT. I can't see what I post as being 'far out there', myself.

Einstein said 'make things as simple as possible, but not simpler'.

I try to.

 

Disclaimer;

everything I write is theory...and might make a noob cry.

I'm sorry for being me.

[Suttree]

A person and a personality are two very different things.

That doesn't hurt what I'm trying to say; it supports it.

I'm actually the one saying that the Dragon Reborn -as a man/ person/ being/ whatever- has two distinct, living personalities..instead of just one.

I prefer to call the personality a Mind, because it's a term that's used in the books by Moiraine & Moridin that actually support my views.

(For instance, Moiraine mentions early in TEotW that it takes a 'living mind'to be able to channel)

 

Terez stated Rand is a person with actually one personality, that invented a fake personality (LTT) based on just a (growing) bag of LTT memories.

And as a reason, you guys mention 'insanity'. I 'm pointing out how wrong it is to think that the Dragon Reborn only has one real personality and how it's not possible -if we just assume for a sec that the Dragon Reborn as a person has only one personality- that even the reason -insanity- can't be the reason, because your immaginary LTT shows up before Rand has a plausible excuse to start going bonkers.

 

I'm saying that's ..well.. that that's wrong (and doesn't do the story any justice at all), based on that RJ quote that FSM posted alone!

 

Sut, you shouldn't be zooming in on how a person does not equal a personality (and you're right there, but that isn't an argument against what I'm saying!), but instead you should wonder how you guys actually say that all 'a personality' is, is a 'bag of memories'.

A personality =/= bag of memories!

A personality = a living, thinking, choice making, conscience with it's memories!

 

The key differences are Life, Choice & Thought. A Mind has those.

 

"The reincarnation of souls does not mean reincarnation of personalities."

Translated: each time a Soul is woven into the Pattern, it get's a clean, fresh slate to start with as a Mind.

 

"The personality develops with each reincarnation of the soul."

Translated: A single Mind develops (based on choices / events / whatnot) over time for each time that same Soul is woven into the Pattern.

Note that it's not a plural; "The personality"...not personalities.

 

"They have one soul with two personalities."

Oh my. This is actually killing the 'Rand is insane' argument in this case. Because the argument actually means 'Rand invented a fake personality'. That doesn't fit with what RJ tell us at all.

He doesn't say he has one Soul with one Mind (and that insane Mind invents a fake Mind). RJ says they have one Soul (namely the same Dragon Soul) and two Minds.

 

So my question to you is two-fold, Sut;

1) Do you honestly think you could call 'a personality' a 'bag of memories'? (because at the heart of it, that's actually what you are saying, I think)

2) Given that you can explain point 1, how do you explain RJ saying that one Soul has two personalities, whereas you say Rand is making one up? (regardless the reason(s) you have for Rand making one up)

 

 

@Mik

Love the passion buddy but these things need to be presented as a theory. You do realize your interpretation is fairly out there correct? You are going to give some noob a heart attack.

Thanks man.

What's in a name, Sut? If it makes you happy, I'd like to call everything I post a theory. We're all pashionate about WoT, else we wouldn't be here.

 

I don't see my reasoning as being 'fairly out there', but I do see your point of others viewing it so and I have lot's of experiences here (and also on Wotmania/ Rafo and even Theoryland) that what I read as 'the simplest solution to all the factors', isn't viewed like that by a lot of others. I tread a lot lighter these days then I did -say- 8 years ago.

What do you propose I should change / do different then?

 

It's how I read WoT. I don't see what I post as being 'far out there', myself.

Einstein said 'make things as simple as possible, but not simpler'.

I try to.

 

Disclaimer;

everything I write is theory...and might make a noob cry.

I'm sorry for being me.

 

You're theories are always high risk, high reward. Whewthere they are out there or not you're a boon to the community. Don't ever let anybody harsh you buzz my man.

[FarShainMael]

'They're two different persons / personalities that share the same Soul at the same time.' Exactly.

 

Thus spake RJ:

 

QUESTION

 

The question is, with Rand and Lews Therin, do they have one soul or two souls in the body?

 

ROBERT JORDAN

 

They have one soul with two personalities. The reincarnation of souls does not mean reincarnation of personalities. The personality develops with each reincarnation of the soul. This is the cosmology that I have cobbled together.

 

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=151#3

 

A person and a personality are two very different things.

 

 

I don't think RJ saw it that way, as he talks of a personality developing with each reincarnation of the soul. That sounds to me like a person coming to be.

[Suttree]

'They're two different persons / personalities that share the same Soul at the same time.' Exactly.

 

Thus spake RJ:

 

QUESTION

 

The question is, with Rand and Lews Therin, do they have one soul or two souls in the body?

 

ROBERT JORDAN

 

They have one soul with two personalities. The reincarnation of souls does not mean reincarnation of personalities. The personality develops with each reincarnation of the soul. This is the cosmology that I have cobbled together.

 

http://www.theorylan...ain.php?i=151#3

 

A person and a personality are two very different things.

 

 

I don't think RJ saw it that way, as he talks of a personality developing with each reincarnation of the soul. That sounds to me like a person coming to be.

 

A personality is just one piece of what makes a person. LTT died long ago on DM, LTT as a person is dead.

 

That answer above comes from someone asking if there were two souls. Rand although sharing the same soul has a distinct personality from LTT. It highlights how reincarnation works, nothing more. As Rand himself says...

 

TGS

For they were not two men, and never had been.

[Terez]

Rand is Lews Therin. They're not two people merged into one; they're the same person who lived many different lives. Lews Therin can't die unless Rand dies.

Argh.

Let's cut that into little pieces to adress them properly

 

Let's not. I've been cutting into them for years.

[Barid Bel Medar]

There are a lot of discrepancies with how the whole thing played out.

 

Rand already has LTT's memories in there as far back as EotW - specifically in his dreams, which may explain things. He remembers the voice of the DO and remembers Shayol Ghul, and other things that I can't pull up now (no EotW access).

 

That is at odds with the Taint madness theory, it seems. Unless the Taint has already manifested as early as EotW.

 

(note, I think that the Taint helped lower the boundaries, but it did not start the whole thing. The potential was already there, again, unless it was something about TAR/Dreams)

 

Furthermore, in the new Chapter 1 we have seemingly conflicted accounts from Rand.

 

My madness is these memories, these impulses. Lews Therin tried to take over. I was two people, fighting over control of myself. And one of them was completely insane.

 

and interestingly earlier he says.

 

“He’s me,” Rand said. “And I’m him. But at the same time, I’m not.”

 

I am uncertain about the reliability of using any one quote to state a definite, they can mean different things.

[Suttree]

Furthermore, in the new Chapter 1 we have seemingly conflicted accounts from Rand.

 

My madness is these memories, these impulses. Lews Therin tried to take over. I was two people, fighting over control of myself. And one of them was completely insane.

 

and interestingly earlier he says.

 

“He’s me,” Rand said. “And I’m him. But at the same time, I’m not.”

 

I am uncertain about the reliability of using any one quote to state a definite, they can mean different things.

 

Not sure why the conflict? He clearly says the "madness is these memories".

[Barid Bel Medar]

I am not disputing that he thinks it is madness, but madness does not mean the LTT part isn't a real manifestation. The madness could have lowered the barriers between the two personalities.

 

Rand certainly seems to think that LTT part of his soul was threatening to overwhelm him. That they were two distinct "people" (not the term I would use, but perhaps "aspects of personality)

 

In any case, let's move on, I'm not trying to argue one way or another, just pointing out something interesting. I think that there is enough real v construct debate to last a lifetime

[Suttree]

In any case, let's move on, I'm not trying to argue one way or another, just pointing out something interesting. I think that there is enough real v construct debate to last a lifetime

 

Concur whole heartedly!

[stillwill]

rand and ltt are just names. hes the same soul/person/being whos been born into countless lives, just each time he comes out personality and perspective wise a bit different due to each upbringing/circumstaces (ie he says in ToM to min that in this life he is less arrogance because of the people who raised him)

 

the only difference is this time he has memories of his last life. Yes for a while we are lead to believe that "lews therin" is a different guy in his head but we are seeing this from his point of view, Rand/LtT/The Dragon who is CRAZY and he is talking to HIMSELF, not some other guy.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissociative_identity_disorder

 

Seemed obvious he labels LTT as a different person because he doesnt want to deal with the fact he murdered his wife and children etc

 

As the books went on and on it became more obvious he was talking to himself and it was no real shocker when he finally realized it himself in vog ("He knew he would never hear the voice again because they werent two men and there never was)

 

this is also the reason he is now "zen" like is because he sees things from different perspectives and points of views rather than just being a normal human with one life and perspective

[Mik]

Heya stillwill,

 

rand and ltt are just names.

Just names...ok..sure...but just names of different personalities, initially born at different times. They aren't just two nick-names for the same object, as you are suggesting.

 

hes the same soul/person/being whos been born into countless lives,...

Definitely the same Soul, yes. And like I told Suttree before, sure, they are both part of the same person / being, namely the 'Dragon Reborn'.

 

..just each time he comes out personality and perspective wise a bit different due to each upbringing/circumstaces (ie he says in ToM to min that in this life he is less arrogance because of the people who raised him)

A bit different? That's an understatement! That same Soul wearing person -when that same Soul is being rewoven into the Pattern- leads different lives each time. Sometimes that same Soul that is now the Dragon (in this Age and the previous one) is just a regular farmer all his life. That's exactly what RJ said, mind you.

 

Just because Birgitte always is a female that's an insanely good archer each time she is spun into the Pattern, doesn't mean all her different lives are just small variations. Based on totally different events surrouding her and choices she makes, she leads totally different lives.

 

the only difference is this time he has memories of his last life.

Since we're talking about Birgitte anway...how many 'personalities' does she have right now, you reckon? Just -one-, right? She has one 'personality'. It's what she uses to think and what she uses to decide what to do.

She has heaps and heaps of (fading) 'bags of memories' from previous lives to dig information from, but just one 'personality' (or Mind) to think & choose with.

 

Since you -and others- are saying Rand that 'this time he has memories of his last life' and that that's what RJ meant when he said;

"They have one soul with two personalities.", then you must also think that Birgitte has thousands and thousands of 'personalities', right?

Because if you just call those 'bags of memories' all a different 'personality', well then Birgitte must have thousands and thousands of those right there!

 

Common sense -and the books I might add- suggests that Birgitte has one Mind/ personality. Not a quazillion.

And she can use all those memories with that one 'personality' as she sees fit, for as long as those memories stay with her.

There are no 'personalities' fading from Birgitte...she's just forgetting memories.

 

Yes for a while we are lead to believe that "lews therin" is a different guy in his head but we are seeing this from his point of view,..

Yes, yes. RJ is a very, very clever writer. That's why I love WoT; it's a great, great puzzle!

 

Rand/LtT/The Dragon who is CRAZY and he is talking to HIMSELF, not some other guy.

There it is again! The insanity card is played! RJ must be laughing from heaven and turning in his grave at the same time. ;)

 

Seemed obvious he labels LTT as a different person because he doesnt want to deal with the fact he murdered his wife and children etc

Rand realizes that since his birth, Lews Therin his living mind has been an integral part of who he is....of what it means to be the Dragon Reborn. Two living Minds for the price of one Soul.

From birth, LTT is part of what Rand always was. But Rand didn't kill his wife and children; Lews Therin -that intergral part from where Rand is looking- did say threethousand years before Rand was even born!

 

As the books went on and on it became more obvious he was talking to himself and it was no real shocker when he finally realized it himself in vog ("He knew he would never hear the voice again because they werent two men and there never was)

In a twisted way, I guess you could call it talking to yourself, when you have two, distinct living Minds in your one body, yes. But it's not how you understand it to be.

 

 

this is also the reason he is now "zen" like is because he sees things from different perspectives and points of views rather than just being a normal human with one life and perspective

'Zen' Rand? Are you kidding me? You've been reading too many forums! ;)

The Dragon Reborn we see after VoG, is just the unblinded Dragon Reborn. The Dragon Reborn he was always supposed to be, had Leafblighter not managed to blind him and plant tiny seeds of doubt in Rand's mind.

A different perspective; he finally found a reason for -truly- accepted what he was by wholeheartedly choosing to accept his destiny.

 

The 'blind man' unblinded himself, and thereby freed the self-trapped living mind of Lews Therin Telamon. (You know; the Dragon.)

Now Rand and Lews their minds are 'as one'.

 

 

 

Off topic:

You're theories are always high risk, high reward. Whether they are out there or not you're a boon to the community. Don't ever let anybody harsh you buzz my man.

Thanks! That added a skip to my stride this morning! Beats being compared to Felix by a mile (and-a-half!) to be honest! :)

I don't see the high risk, nor the high reward, though. This is just my take on WoT.

What are the risks? And what are those rewards? There are none. This is just a forum.

Regardless, thanks for putting a smile on my face!

[plague fiend]

Anyone notice Rand had a dream in which Egwene plunged a knife into his heart and he thanked her? Great Hunt.

[Fred Cauthon]

Anyone notice Rand had a dream in which Egwene plunged a knife into his heart and he thanked her? Great Hunt.

Can you quote that? If so it may be very important in AMoL

 

Fred