The "Other" Dark Prophecies

[Aqua Weaver]

After reading through the Broken Wolf thread I began to wonder what other prophecies Moridin has read that have shaped his actions and views regarding events both in the past and to come. What strikes me as most interesting in this regard; however, is how angry Shaidar Haran was with Graendal for losing control of the Dreamspike and then placing the blame for Mesaana's destruction solely on her shoulders. This despite Mesaana's plan not striking me as being terribly spectacular and we also know from early Graendal POVs that she is making promises that she is unlikely to keep.

 

I should explain that Mesaana's plan does not strike me as being terribly spectacular as it requires several things to succeed. First, it requires luring Egwene and the others into some trap set at another location and this would require them taking the bait which there is no guarantee of. Secondly, we see the Wise One's demonstrate that familiarity with one's environment in the dream world is not needed to be highly proficient or deadly in it making a change of location to gain an advantage in strength moot. Finally, if Mesaana had a large group of Black Ajah in reserve at location X as a trap then why not just bring them en masse to the initial attack and decimate Egwene's forces? Messana's plan therefore seems rather sketchy to me.

 

What is therefore notable concerning this whole episode is that Shaidar Haran, and presumably Moridin, believe that had Mesaana's attack gone according to plan it would have been a success. This indicates to me that they must be operating on some knowledge unknown to the reader as, in my opinion, Mesaana should certainly not be in Moridin's good graces following the decimation of the Black Ajah and her recent disobedience and failures should by no means inspire confidence in her plans.

 

I would be interested in hearing other's ideas on the subject and potential other prophecies they think might be in play that we don't know about.

 

Aqua

[shortkut]

I know it is not the topic of the thread, but had the a'dam been brought into TAR in the flesh then Eggy would not have been able to think it away. Perrin could not think away the dreamspike, so why did Mesana not do that?

[Matrim-Bloody-Cauthon]

I know it is not the topic of the thread, but had the a'dam been brought into TAR in the flesh then Eggy would not have been able to think it away. Perrin could not think away the dreamspike, so why did Mesana not do that?

I think this was yet another case of the Forsaken being overly confident and underestimating the good guys. She could have easily brought a real a'dam, she just didnt think she needed to to control a 'child'

[Durinax]

I should explain that Mesaana's plan does not strike me as being terribly spectacular as it requires several things to succeed. First, it requires luring Egwene and the others into some trap set at another location and this would require them taking the bait which there is no guarantee of. Secondly, we see the Wise One's demonstrate that familiarity with one's environment in the dream world is not needed to be highly proficient or deadly in it making a change of location to gain an advantage in strength moot. Finally, if Mesaana had a large group of Black Ajah in reserve at location X as a trap then why not just bring them en masse to the initial attack and decimate Egwene's forces? Messana's plan therefore seems rather sketchy to me.

moving the battle to a location that you find superior is never a bad decision. Especially since the Light siders would have had a few moments of vulnerability as they surveyed the new location and potential attack points. And throwing in more troops in a small confinded location is not a good idea, your own troops would start being in each others way

[Lisa Campbell]

I know it is not the topic of the thread, but had the a'dam been brought into TAR in the flesh then Eggy would not have been able to think it away. Perrin could not think away the dreamspike, so why did Mesana not do that?

I think this was yet another case of the Forsaken being overly confident and underestimating the good guys. She could have easily brought a real a'dam, she just didnt think she needed to to control a 'child'

 

You seem to be saying that Mesaana was there in the flesh, which was not indicated in text. I think Mesaana thought it was an impregnable tool, but after Perrin dissolving Balefire and Bair's examples, Egwene realised that will power was the strongest power in TAR. This is also indicated in Ishamael's and Rhavin's attempts when fighting Rand in TAR.

[shortkut]

I know it is not the topic of the thread, but had the a'dam been brought into TAR in the flesh then Eggy would not have been able to think it away. Perrin could not think away the dreamspike, so why did Mesana not do that?

I think this was yet another case of the Forsaken being overly confident and underestimating the good guys. She could have easily brought a real a'dam, she just didnt think she needed to to control a 'child'

 

You seem to be saying that Mesaana was there in the flesh, which was not indicated in text. I think Mesaana thought it was an impregnable tool, but after Perrin dissolving Balefire and Bair's examples, Egwene realised that will power was the strongest power in TAR. This is also indicated in Ishamael's and Rhavin's attempts when fighting Rand in TAR.

i don't think she was there in the flesh, but doing so with an a'dam would hate held eggy since perrin showed us that you cannot think away items brought there in the flesh

[Sharaman]

That indestructibility may be specific to the Dreamspike, which can somehow exist in, and affect, both TAR and the real world. We don't even know if you can bring objects into TAR in he flesh, not for sure.

[TristanWebb]

Egwene took her clothes through TAR on the way to Salidar.

[Wolf505]

I'm pretty sure Rand didn't fight Ishamael and Rahvin in the buff as well. Both times he was in TAR in the flesh.

[Matrim-Bloody-Cauthon]

I know it is not the topic of the thread, but had the a'dam been brought into TAR in the flesh then Eggy would not have been able to think it away. Perrin could not think away the dreamspike, so why did Mesana not do that?

I think this was yet another case of the Forsaken being overly confident and underestimating the good guys. She could have easily brought a real a'dam, she just didnt think she needed to to control a 'child'

 

You seem to be saying that Mesaana was there in the flesh, which was not indicated in text. I think Mesaana thought it was an impregnable tool, but after Perrin dissolving Balefire and Bair's examples, Egwene realised that will power was the strongest power in TAR. This is also indicated in Ishamael's and Rhavin's attempts when fighting Rand in TAR.

I dont mean to imply she was there in the flesh, i mean to imply she could have been but didnt think her oppononent strong enough to warrant it. And you can bring objects to TAR. Slayer/isam/luc is seen carrying knives in and out to assassinate people (not sure but think that was Winters Heart)

[Durinax]

Chapter 21 tDR

"Heart of the Dark. Baalzamon. Name hiddin within name shrouded by name. Secret buried within secred cloaked by secret. Betrayer of Hope. Ishamael betrays all hope. Truth burns and sears. Hope fails before truth. A lie is our shield. Who can stand against the Heart of the Dark? Who can face the Betrayer of Hope? Soul of shadow, Soul of the Shadow, he is ---"

 

Is this one prophecy? And what lie is a shield?