What binds the sworn Aes Sedai to Rand? A ter'angreal? What about Elza, who is a Darkfriend (COT,ch24)??

[Guest Bharath Tata]

Beldeine, Elsa, Erian, Nesune, and Sarine all swore fealty to Rand. What binds them? Is it just their word (Do the Three Oaths make Rand believe they will stay loyal?), or did they use another ter'angreal, Like the Oath Rod?

 

 

 

I AM STILL READING COT, SO PLEASE NO SPOILERS!!!!!!!!!

[Hallow]

I always assumed that because of the whole lying thing, an oath of fealty makes it impossible for them to directly disobey him.

[Terez]

Beldeine, Elsa, Erian, Nesune, and Sarine all swore fealty to Rand. What binds them? Is it just their word (Do the Three Oaths make Rand believe they will stay loyal?), or did they use another ter'angreal, Like the Oath Rod?

 

 

 

I AM STILL READING COT, SO PLEASE NO SPOILERS!!!!!!!!!

 

1. They can only speak truth, so at the time they give their Oath, they at least have to believe that they will keep it then. It's not quite as binding as having taken that particular Oath on the Oath Rod, but it's close enough. Egwene bound many Aes Sedai to her the same way.

 

2. Verin used a form of Compulsion on them in TPOD, which is why they all swore in the first place, except those who swore at Dumai's Wells (Verin among them). They all had to find their own reasons to do what she compelled them to do, but there it is.

[Sharaman]

Two of therm were Black but Verin had Compelled them all and (presumably) both blacks found their own ways of rationalising the oath. We've seen Elza's PoV but not Fera(?),

For the others, they were bound by the normal AS oaths once they had been Compelled to take it

[Luckers]

Though the compulsion is helpful, as we have seen Aes Sedai go back on their promises before--Elaida with the 'I will do as I was told', for instance, or Beonin's back and forth on her oath of fealty to Egwene. What is true at one moment is not always true at the next. It can be entirely subjective.

 

But yes compulsion with self-rationalisation + Oath for Light Sisters. Compulsion with self-rationalisation for Black Ajah.

[Vardar]

Though the compulsion is helpful, as we have seen Aes Sedai go back on their promises before--Elaida with the 'I will do as I was told', for instance, or Beonin's back and forth on her oath of fealty to Egwene. What is true at one moment is not always true at the next. It can be entirely subjective.

 

But yes compulsion with self-rationalisation + Oath for Light Sisters. Compulsion with self-rationalisation for Black Ajah.

 

Crap, how did I miss that. Was this implied from the reading that's what she was doing? Or was it mentioned. Cause I totally missed that, I always wondered what she was up too.

[Luckers]

Though the compulsion is helpful, as we have seen Aes Sedai go back on their promises before--Elaida with the 'I will do as I was told', for instance, or Beonin's back and forth on her oath of fealty to Egwene. What is true at one moment is not always true at the next. It can be entirely subjective.

 

But yes compulsion with self-rationalisation + Oath for Light Sisters. Compulsion with self-rationalisation for Black Ajah.

 

Crap, how did I miss that. Was this implied from the reading that's what she was doing? Or was it mentioned. Cause I totally missed that, I always wondered what she was up too.

 

Verin flat out uses compulsion on screen in that scene, and thinks in detail about its benefits and drawbacks, though it's blurred as to what she sought to achieve in that scene, though it is made very clear that she's looking to help Rand. BTW that scene is my single favourite scene in the whole series. There are so many subtleties going on--reading it after the tGS reveal...

 

In any case re: the compulsion, there are numerous scenes in which its touched on--Elza's POV at the Cleansing and her POV in KoD when she's thinking about Fera, Elza telling Semirhage she has to remove the compulsion placed on her via SH's instruction... countless others. But, the closest to direct detection from another character... I suggest you read the Verin POV in the prologue of The Path of Daggers, and directly afterwards read the Cadsuane POV in Winter's Heart Chapter 13 Wonderful News.

[Vardar]

Though the compulsion is helpful, as we have seen Aes Sedai go back on their promises before--Elaida with the 'I will do as I was told', for instance, or Beonin's back and forth on her oath of fealty to Egwene. What is true at one moment is not always true at the next. It can be entirely subjective.

 

But yes compulsion with self-rationalisation + Oath for Light Sisters. Compulsion with self-rationalisation for Black Ajah.

 

Crap, how did I miss that. Was this implied from the reading that's what she was doing? Or was it mentioned. Cause I totally missed that, I always wondered what she was up too.

 

I clearly recall the scene, and Verin thinking what needs to be done, etc. I just never connected the two I suppose. Hmm. I thought the compulsion Semirhage had to remove was placed there by a forsaken.

 

Verin flat out uses compulsion on screen in that scene, and thinks in detail about its benefits and drawbacks, though it's blurred as to what she sought to achieve in that scene, though it is made very clear that she's looking to help Rand. BTW that scene is my single favourite scene in the whole series. There are so many subtleties going on--reading it after the tGS reveal...

 

In any case re: the compulsion, there are numerous scenes in which its touched on--Elza's POV at the Cleansing and her POV in KoD when she's thinking about Fera, Elza telling Semirhage she has to remove the compulsion placed on her via SH's instruction... countless others. But, the closest to direct detection from another character... I suggest you read the Verin POV in the prologue of The Path of Daggers, and directly afterwards read the Cadsuane POV in Winter's Heart Chapter 13 Wonderful News.

[Plato]

I always thought it was just them swearing oaths to Rand, and their own sense of honor keeping it. Silly me!!

[Suttree]

Though the compulsion is helpful, as we have seen Aes Sedai go back on their promises before--Elaida with the 'I will do as I was told', for instance, or Beonin's back and forth on her oath of fealty to Egwene. What is true at one moment is not always true at the next. It can be entirely subjective.

 

But yes compulsion with self-rationalisation + Oath for Light Sisters. Compulsion with self-rationalisation for Black Ajah.

 

Crap, how did I miss that. Was this implied from the reading that's what she was doing? Or was it mentioned. Cause I totally missed that, I always wondered what she was up too.

 

I clearly recall the scene, and Verin thinking what needs to be done, etc. I just never connected the two I suppose. Hmm. I thought the compulsion Semirhage had to remove was placed there by a forsaken.

 

Verin flat out uses compulsion on screen in that scene, and thinks in detail about its benefits and drawbacks, though it's blurred as to what she sought to achieve in that scene, though it is made very clear that she's looking to help Rand. BTW that scene is my single favourite scene in the whole series. There are so many subtleties going on--reading it after the tGS reveal...

 

In any case re: the compulsion, there are numerous scenes in which its touched on--Elza's POV at the Cleansing and her POV in KoD when she's thinking about Fera, Elza telling Semirhage she has to remove the compulsion placed on her via SH's instruction... countless others. But, the closest to direct detection from another character... I suggest you read the Verin POV in the prologue of The Path of Daggers, and directly afterwards read the Cadsuane POV in Winter's Heart Chapter 13 Wonderful News.

 

As others have noted it was Verin's "limited" version of compulsion that she cobbled together from studying novices over the years. It has a number of drawbacks which she thinks of in great detail in that chapter as she is weaving it.

[Maleshub]

I always thought it was just them swearing oaths to Rand, and their own sense of honor keeping it. Silly me!!

 

The three Aes Sedai who were severed and then healed by Damer Flinn are no longer bound by the 3 oaths. For them, it is Verin's Compulsion that drove them to swear; but their "own sense of honor" plays a key role in their faithfulness to the oaths.

[Ala Rubra]

I always thought it was just them swearing oaths to Rand, and their own sense of honor keeping it. Silly me!!

 

The three Aes Sedai who were severed and then healed by Damer Flinn are no longer bound by the 3 oaths. For them, it is Verin's Compulsion that drove them to swear; but their "own sense of honor" plays a key role in their faithfulness to the oaths.

 

Do we know that Verin compelled those three?

[Suttree]

I always thought it was just them swearing oaths to Rand, and their own sense of honor keeping it. Silly me!!

 

The three Aes Sedai who were severed and then healed by Damer Flinn are no longer bound by the 3 oaths. For them, it is Verin's Compulsion that drove them to swear; but their "own sense of honor" plays a key role in their faithfulness to the oaths.

 

Do we know that Verin compelled those three?

 

We know she did Irgain Fatamed for sure and it is assumed the others as well...

[Luckers]

I always thought it was just them swearing oaths to Rand, and their own sense of honor keeping it. Silly me!!

 

The three Aes Sedai who were severed and then healed by Damer Flinn are no longer bound by the 3 oaths. For them, it is Verin's Compulsion that drove them to swear; but their "own sense of honor" plays a key role in their faithfulness to the oaths.

 

Do we know that Verin compelled those three?

 

We know she did Irgain Fatamed for sure and it is assumed the others as well...

 

And Sashelle displays the compelled attitude in her letter to Galina (the one read by Tsutama)

[bobarose]

rand is the breaker of all bonds,he can break any bond made on any oathrod.he is a force of nature that can not be denied.only the forsaken can stand up to him.remember the lord of chaos will rule them all at the end.

[Suttree]

rand is the breaker of all bonds,he can break any bond made on any oathrod.

 

That isn't what the phrase refers to and there is zero evidence to support that claim.

[Ala Rubra]

I always thought it was just them swearing oaths to Rand, and their own sense of honor keeping it. Silly me!!

 

The three Aes Sedai who were severed and then healed by Damer Flinn are no longer bound by the 3 oaths. For them, it is Verin's Compulsion that drove them to swear; but their "own sense of honor" plays a key role in their faithfulness to the oaths.

 

Do we know that Verin compelled those three?

 

We know she did Irgain Fatamed for sure and it is assumed the others as well...

 

And Sashelle displays the compelled attitude in her letter to Galina (the one read by Tsutama)

 

I see. Thanks.

[TristanWebb]

rand is the breaker of all bonds,he can break any bond made on any oathrod.

 

That isn't what the phrase refers to and there is zero evidence to support that claim.

He could just sever them all :P