Aging with the Power

[fionwe1987]

I would need to see the Avi quote to comment either way. Proof was requested and proof was given. Time for the other side to start providing something concrete that says it is not the case.

Oh that quote exists. Rand asks Avi why she doesn't use the OP for some chore (snuffing a candle or some other thing), and Avi talks about the OP being addictive, and needing to learn to control the urge to use it for everything.

 

This proves nothing, though, since the AS have exactly the same strictures for Novices and Accepted. Using the OP for chores is forbidden, and Novices and Accepted are expected to use the OP in moderation till their control of it becomes strong enough that they won't overdraw by accident. Hence Verin's lecture to Egwene on the dangers of using the OP when not fully trained.

[Knivy]

I would need to see the Avi quote to comment either way. Proof was requested and proof was given. Time for the other side to start providing something concrete that says it is not the case.

Oh that quote exists. Rand asks Avi why she doesn't use the OP for some chore (snuffing a candle or some other thing), and Avi talks about the OP being addictive, and needing to learn to control the urge to use it for everything.

 

This proves nothing, though, since the AS have exactly the same strictures for Novices and Accepted. Using the OP for chores is forbidden, and Novices and Accepted are expected to use the OP in moderation till their control of it becomes strong enough that they won't overdraw by accident. Hence Verin's lecture to Egwene on the dangers of using the OP when not fully trained.

Where the difference lies, I believe, is how the fear or caution or whatever it is that the Wise Ones force onto their apprentices continues to exist after they reach full status. What Aes Sedai (when not undercover) would willingly take two extra steps to put out a candle when she can sit down and channel it out without any effort?

 

Another piece of evidence is how there is no difference socially between a Wise One Channeler and an non-channeler. If they (the channelers) used the power for trivial tasks, while the non-channelers are forced to complete them the mundane way, a rift would quickly develop, leading to contempt of the non-channelers by the channelers. This would be inevitable, no matter the resistance to this, over the thousand years the culture exists. That isnt even taking into account the seniority slowing gives the Channelers. I like to think of the Wise Ones views of channeling akin to their views on riding horses. Unless there is a purpose that cannot be satisfied simply by normal means, there is no reason to be riding.

[yoniy0]

I'd be interested in seeing that quote, also. I recall one of Rand putting out the fire only to then think that he might've used the Source.

[TristanWebb]

Avi also later (earlier? Not sure when the quote is) heated Rand's shaving water for him, so take that for what it is worth.

[Naggash]

I'd be interested in seeing that quote, also. I recall one of Rand putting out the fire only to then think that he might've used the Source.

Both quotes exist, though I don't know what has Rand to do with this.

 

EDIT:

I'm certainly not going to search quotes from the books just to argue

That's too bad. It's one of the most effective ways to change minds. Right now, for example, I'm doubting my recollection of Egwene being the only apprentice to use the OP, but it's hard to look for instances of Aviendha's doing the same without context.

I know but, well, that takes time to search for it. I must recognize that I'm quite lazy, but in this case it's not only that. I would search for a quote if this was about something important, something relevant about which someone was wrong. But on the other hand this is not really an important thing, nor there is any evidence.

 

As I see it, it doesn't really matter at all if the WO channel a lot or not, it's just an argument out of curiosity. We give information supporting our PoV and that's all. I have good memory and I think I'm right about what I said in my previous posts, but since we don't have a clear confirmation for or against it on-screen, it's just speculation. You believe they channel as much as AS do, well I think you're wrong but it's an opinion about something irrelevant and I understand and respect yout PoV, no need to go searching for quotes.

[yoniy0]

You believe they channel as much as AS do

Actually I don't. I just don't have any proof (which makes me a prime candidate for winning-over). Of course you could say this point doesn't really matter, but hey, we both logged in to talk about it, so... I guess we must both care a little bit about persuading others to our point of view.

[Naggash]

And I care, don't think I don't. I've tried to persuade you into my PoV but I don't have the time to waste 30 minutes looking for quotes. I thought you would understand. Since I registered in the forum I've been posting a lot but I do it in short pauses when I'm doing other things.

I don't mean to disrespect or hurt feelings but, well, looking for quotes doesn't seem to me as the funniest thing to do in the little time I got left from studying.

I know that, for as much convinced I can be about something, if I don't offer prove, you have no way of knowing if I'm right or not; you don't know me enough to be aware that I don't come up with things; I try to talk only about things I know and when I'm mistaken I try to always offer apology and thanks. That's the reason I say I respect any opinion on the matter though I think I'm right. If I quoted something definitive I could say 'hey there, this makes it clear stop arguing', but since I don't quote I just try to hold my ground.

Sorry if it bothers you, but I can't offer more at the moment. Maybe on holidays I will have the time.

And again, I don't want to be disrespectful. I know you too, as everyone on this forum, have more to do than posting, and I really appreciate and admire your job and dedication to it, but it doesn't suit me (though I don't know if this expresion is correct here sorry).

 

Sorry for the offtopic.

[Alric]

I tried finding some answers here: http://www.dragonmou...-of-channelers/

 

Morgase (43) looking 31-ish is not just confirmed in an interview, but also in the actual books. When Perrin meets "Maighdin", he estimates her being 10 years older than him (21 and 31).

 

Kirstian, (320-ish), has a face that looks 10 years older than Nynaeve's (according to Avi). If we are to take that literally, it means Kirstian also looks 31-ish, since Nynaeve looks 21 (according to Tylin specifically, but others have also remarked that Nyn looks younger than her age). If we don't take it literally, but go with Nyn's actual age, Kirstian would look 37-ish.

 

If Morgase and Kirstian look the same age, with both being trained at a young age and never using the OR, and both channeling relatively rarely, then strength in the Power seems to be quite a big factor with regards to aging.

[Alric]

Considering those being stilled, they appear to return to the age they would have had if they had never taken the Oaths but still been able to channel. That might seem counter intuitive since they after all can't channel anymore, but we have good evidence of that. Siuan (42) is practically the same age as Morgase. Right after her stilling (tSR) she herself estimates she has lost "a good fifteen years" (41 -> 26) and Min guesses Siuan and Leane look at most six or seven years older than herself (29-30). Aaaaanyway... My point here is that this fits with Morgase, Siuan now looks younger than her because she was/is stronger in the power)

 

(I think we have to be very careful with the numbers here, and quote sources in case people might misremember. As for actual ages, the 13th depository is a good source (but remember to substract for the earlier books!):

http://13depository....characters.html )

[Naggash]

But remember that actively channeling is half the influence. Morgase NEVER channels. She may have channeled like a month in the Tower before they told her to leave, and she channeled in Malden. And nothing more as she herself sais. So it's true that strength in the Power is influencial but you can't take Morgase as an example because she doesn't really channel. She has the minimum slow that I think exists for just having acces, and touched at least once, to the Source.