Destroying Cuendillar

[Thrasymachus]

Well, if cuendillar were still susceptible to acid, even if the chemical knowledge of acids and bases were lost to Third Agers, they could still tell that something was capable of destroying cuendillar. Soils, rainwater and riverwater are often naturally slightly acidic, as is wine and vinegar, which we know the Third Agers know about. Surely someone would try serving wine from a cuendillar jar, just to be ostentatious about it, and then notice that the jar was slightly etched. And it'd be odd to find completely whole and perfect piece of cuendillar wrapped in rotting cloth in some old moldering ruin, but we don't hear any stories of decayed or decaying cuendillar pieces, excepting the seals, of course.

[jsbrads]

I read others comments too, just quoting the first person in string.

 

terangreal are not easily destroyed, but they are not inherently indestructable. both access keys are now destroyed and both saangreal are gone too.

True power should be no more effective than one power. any force used against it strengthens it, the key must be to not try to destroy it, the seals failed not because of the taint, there was no taint when they were manufactured, it was because of the contact between them and DO.

analogy: kevlar vest won't be penetrated by bullets, but let a fine sand filter in and it would corrupt the material weakening the fibers so that over time the vest will fail

where do you get the idea that terangreal are not easily destroyed. i bet many of them could be destroyed by picking them up and throwing them against a wall, let along lighting off a fireball on one. do you think it is just for poops and smiles that the oath rod is normaly stored in padding? maybe it has never been damaged but i bet they do that because they know that they can be damaged if even dropped, even if that particular ter'angreal can't be, they dont want to find out.

 

When Nynaeve and Moggie had that battle in Tarabon, balefire didn't destroy the terangreals and besides for the magical properties of balefire, it is also a hot beam of energy too.

the adam couldn't be destroyed by Elayne (when she and Nynaeve fled Tarabon) and all terangreals on this side of the ocean have an average age of 3000+ years, so not disposable, ok?

 

I think the answer is very simple . I mean , the Cuendillar is just a form of iron , not a gold or platinum etc. , so it can be oxigenized using an acid . I have remember no mention of acids and their using knowledge in 3rd Age WoT World , so it's can be correct to suggest that this way isn't known .

 

Cuellidar is strengthened by any force used against it, so acid which will try to strip off ions on an atomic level, would still be an attack, note: the heat of balefire would vaporize steel, why couldn't it ionize off atoms if that were possible?

I am sure the only way to defeat cuellidar is not to attack it, but to seep in, over thousands of years without attacking, corrupting without damaging the structure, until the structure can be broken by an outside force.

[Nasu]

what about bale fire? bale fire destroys the item or person from the before the second it was made so it would not matter if you attack it it would seize to be.

[yoniy0]

As mentioned above, Balefire failed to destroy cuendillar items in the Tarabon collection, so no.

[jsbrads]

and not even regular terangreals were destroyed that way, somehow their connection to the power protects them too

[yoniy0]

Actually, I'm not sure about this Balefire and ter'angreal thing. The DB was itself cuendillar, so it doesn't count. Any other ter'angreal we've seen withstand BF?

[Barid Bel Medar]

Actually, I'm not sure about this Balefire and ter'angreal thing. The DB was itself cuendillar, so it doesn't count. Any other ter'angreal we've seen withstand BF?

 

well, not a ter'angreal, but Callandor apparently deflects balefire. None other that I know of though.

[yoniy0]

Yes, well, that was in TAR, and we've seen Perrin's hand perform the same feat there. Regardless, Rand might've used some weave to do it. What about in Tarabon, did anything else beside the Seal and DB got hit (and remained intact)?

[Luckers]

The Callandor thing has three explanations.

 

1. It is cuendillar.

2. Rand wilderized a weave to block cuendillar--it wouldn't be the first time he'd done something supposedly impossible, and he does directly draw on saidin just before the balefire.

3. Rand did a Perrin on the balefire, and his belief that it would part parted it.

 

*angreal are very hard to destroy, but they are not cuendillar, nor indestructable.

[jsbrads]

Rand deflected balefire in the real stone of Tear, not in TAR.

Callendor is not white or black, so it ain't Cuellindar.

Saangreal and angreal are just a specific type of terangreal.

The collection at Tarabon had both cuellindar and terangreal, which both survived the balefire battle.

 

The book describes, the sharp edge of callendor cutting the balefire in half, and they continued of their new path to either side of Rand

[Barid Bel Medar]

The Chodean Kal got pretty destroyed with the use of vast amounts of power. No balefire.

 

the a'dam are destroyed without the use of balefire.

 

Dreamspike got melted and mangled, rendered useless which one can safely assume = destroyed. It doesn't work in any case.

 

The Redstone Doorways to the Finn realm gets destroyed when Lanfear and Moiraine tumble through.

 

plenty of examples of ter'angreal/angreal/sa'angreal being destroyed.

 

I mention no balefire because Balefire is the most destructive thing, if you can't balefire it, it can't be destroyed with the OP.

 

So since these things can be destroyed relatively "normally" without balefire, it makes them even weaker.

 

That's not to say that SOME ter'angreal/angreal/sa'angreal can't be indestructible, just that ter'angreal etc.. are not all indestructible

[yoniy0]

Rand deflected balefire in the real stone of Tear, not in TAR.

This is not actually the case. Just to ease your mind, I checked. You might've done the same before dismissing the notion.

For a moment Rand stared, frowning. There had been a sense of folding - as Ba’alzamon left. A twisting, as if Ba’alzamon had in some way bent what was. Ignoring the men staring at him, ignoring Moiraine crumpled at the column base, Rand reached out, through Callandor, and twisted reality to make a door to somewhere else. He did not know to where, except that it was where Ba’alzamon had gone.

[...]

Rand was still in the Heart of the Stone, but it was different. There were no men fighting here, no dead men, no one at all but himself.

[...]

The shaft of light struck the blade of Callandor - and parted on its edge, forking to stream past on either side.

[...]

And suddenly Rand was in another Heart of the Stone, surrounded by columns still whole, and fighting men screaming and dying, veiled men and men in breastplates and helmets.

[gloweye]

1 Rand deflected balefire in the real stone of Tear, not in TAR.

2 Callendor is not white or black, so it ain't Cuellindar.

3 Saangreal and angreal are just a specific type of terangreal.

4 The collection at Tarabon had both cuellindar and terangreal, which both survived the balefire battle.

 

The book describes, the sharp edge of callendor cutting the balefire in half, and they continued of their new path to either side of Rand

 

Lets do this in order... To make for easy reference, i've put some numbers in your post.

 

1 you.re wrong. But we see it from Rand POV, and he does not know about TAR.

2 the only cuendillar we've seen is black and white, but we have no proof that it can't be another color. Closing evidence would be a quote from someone AOL, like Rand/forsaken.

3 im sorry but were did you get this from? Quote?

4 IIRCAIUD, Nyneave didnt quite take the time to look beyond the DB and the seal...though I haven't read the piece for a while.

 

Edit: im to slow posting... BTW, im for option 3 luckers said, that he did the same as perrin.

[jsbrads]

1. Yoniyo, thanks for quoting that it was in real Stone of Tear

2. Okay, I'll give you that one, it may be possible that cuellidar could be another color, but I don't think so

3. The women weere taught that in the White Tower (also logical)

4. Nynaeve did walk around before (in TAR)

 

Balefire is incredibly destructable, I may not have chosen to allow terangreal to survive balefire but be destroyed by other methods, but it happened, RJ made that choice. Note: Barid Bel Medar, I don't recall an adam ever being balefired, the domination band was destroyed by fire tho.

[Byzantine279]

The domination band was destroyed by the True Power, as it was made of Cuendillar.

[TristanWebb]

It amused me when it was revealed that Cuendillar was made by altering iron because Adamantium in the Marvel universe is also an alteration of iron.

[Barid Bel Medar]

 

the a'dam are destroyed without the use of balefire.

 

: Barid Bel Medar, I don't recall an adam ever being balefired

[jsbrads]

The domination band was destroyed by the True Power, as it was made of Cuendillar.

 

i'm pretty sure it was mettalic, counter intuative as this might sound cuellidar is not mettalic, it is smooth and slick like glass, and feels like stone

[Byzantine279]

And yet we were, distinctly, told that it was made of Cuendillar, so looks don't particularly matter.

[Barid Bel Medar]

INTERVIEW: Nov 11th, 2009

TGS Signing Report - Tim Kington (Paraphrased)

 

QUESTION

Was the Domination Band made of cuendillar?

 

BRANDON SANDERSON

The original one is made of cuendillar. The one that was destroyed was a copy, but one would assume that the copies are made of cuendillar, too. The True Power works by destroying the Pattern. Everything that is done with it involves damage to the Pattern. For example, when we see Ishamael Travel, he does so by poking a hole in the Pattern. Cuendillar can be destroyed using the True Power. There is another way to destroy cuendillar, too.

 

FOOTNOTE

Brandon said in another interview that the second way cuendillar can be destroyed is by the unraveling Pattern

.

 

So, it was a copy, but probably Cuendillar aswell. Still, the point is moot, the DB would have been destroyed Cuendillar or not, via the TP.

 

Also, just found that the second way to destroy Cuendillar has been revealed. By "unravelling the Pattern." Here is the quote.

 

FORKROOT

If cuendillar is brought into Tel’aran’rhiod, can it be destroyed in a nightmare (the same way Perrin destroyed the dreamspike)?

 

BRANDON SANDERSON

If you were strong enough in Tel’aran’rhiod, you could probably force it to break, but it would remanifest itself pretty quickly. (He compared it to how Perrin was able to force Hopper back together for a moment, but no more—it snapped back to "reality" pretty fast.) RJ was pretty strong on this point—it’s really, really hard to destroy the stuff. Even an opening gateway wouldn’t do it—either the edge would push the cuendillar object out of the way, or the object would block the gateway from opening or closing. (You could actually block a gateway open by sticking a piece of cuendillar in it.) RJ was firm: there are only two ways for cuendillar to be destroyed: the Pattern unraveling, and… one other thing. (From the way he said “one other thing” I think we’ll be learning about it in A Memory of Light. He enjoyed that question too.)

FOOTNOTE

Brandon said in another interview that the second way to destroy cuendillar is with the True Power.

[gloweye]

1. Yoniyo, thanks for quoting that it was in real Stone of Tear

2. Okay, I'll give you that one, it may be possible that cuellidar could be another color, but I don't think so

3. The women weere taught that in the White Tower (also logical)

4. Nynaeve did walk around before (in TAR)

 

Balefire is incredibly destructable, I may not have chosen to allow terangreal to survive balefire but be destroyed by other methods, but it happened, RJ made that choice. Note: Barid Bel Medar, I don't recall an adam ever being balefired, the domination band was destroyed by fire tho.

 

3 they weren't, cause the AS don't know anything about ter'angreaal creation - at least not before elayne tells them.

4 that was before. The part of your statement I was questioning was the survival of the ter'angreaal. I know the ter'angreaal were there, along with the mercedes logo and the giraffe skeleton. were just not told about survival.

[yoniy0]

Please, everyone, if you want to make a point, include evidence from the books to support it (in direct quote, not merely saying you remember that one exists). Otherwise, kindly address what proof the other posters have included.

[jsbrads]

Gaidar: the terangreal and the cuellindar survived the balefire battle, both survived.

 

Yoniyo: I would love to bring a direct quote, but it not practical to do so, rarely is it done, like the idea tho, just probably won't do it, too impractical

[yoniy0]

jbrads, that's quite enough. In one post you not only explicitly reject my request, but again dismiss the opinion of another poster with absolutely no evidence except your own beliefs. Including evidence to support your hypotheses when confronted with disagreement is not only practical and commonly done here, it's what I specifically asked everyone to do in this topic, since we were talking circles and getting nowhere.

 

Moderation issues aside, you're wrong. The only word we get of things surviving that BF is to say only stuff made of cuendillar did:

Desperately she flung herself to one side, so hard that she slid along the smooth white floorstones until one of the thin columns stopped her with a jar. A leg-thick bar of white shot through where she had been standing, as if the air had turned to molten metal, slicing all the way across the exhibition hall; where it struck, pieces simply vanished out of columns, priceless artifacts ceased to exist. Hurling flows of Fire behind her blindly, hoping to strike something, anything, in the courtyard, Nynaeve scrambled away across the hall on hands and knees. Little more than waist-high, the bar sawed sideways, carving a swathe through both walls; between, cases and cabinets and wired skeletons collapsed and crashed. Severed columns quivered; some fell, but what dropped onto that terrible sword did not survive to smash displays and pedestals to the floor. The glass-walled table fell before the molten shaft vanished, leaving a purplish bar that seemed burned into Nynaeve's vision; the cuendillar figures were all that dropped out of that molten white shaft, bouncing on the floor.

The figurines did not break, of course. It seemed Moghedien was right; not even balefire could destroy cuendillar.

[Terez]

Also, just found that the second way to destroy Cuendillar has been revealed. By "unravelling the Pattern." Here is the quote.

 

Just noticed this thread, and was dismayed at how long this took.