Camylen's waygate

[ironisles]

I thought Rand booby-trapped this one and a couple of others. Don't have the books handy to read. Am I wrong?

[kght22]

yup, rand did, i don't think that would do all that much good against one of the forsaken. that would have been before he had learned much from ltt.

[Byzantine279]

He did, it was probably removed.

[Barid Bel Medar]

AS mentioned, he did. (I can't seem to remember him specifically saying he did with this waygate, anyone have a quote?) since he could have forgotten about it. Although, I think it is pretty safe to say he did booby-trap it.

 

Even so, also as mentioned, it could easily have been removed by one of the Forsaken, or the Black Ajah that were in Caemlyn organizing it could have been told how to disarm it.

 

Even if they didn't, in terms of an army, could the trap have been that effective. At that point he still did not know very much about the OP, so it could be that the trap was just not powerful enough. Did it reset when it was triggered? (I am pretty sure it does) BUt if not, then I can see the shadow sacrificing a few thousand trollocs to get through.

 

Interesting though, could it have been the Gohlam that nullified it? If i remember correctly, weaves dissolve when they touch the Gohlam. Could it have been ordered to simply walk through the waygate, thus dissolving the trap?

[Roxinos]

As far as I'm aware, Rand never booby-trapped the Waygate in Caemlyn. Only in Shadar Logoth.

 

Interesting though, could it have been the Gohlam that nullified it? If i remember correctly, weaves dissolve when they touch the Gohlam. Could it have been ordered to simply walk through the waygate, thus dissolving the trap?

 

Doesn't work that way. The trap merely wouldn't affect him.

[Barid Bel Medar]

As far as I'm aware, Rand never booby-trapped the Waygate in Caemlyn. Only in Shadar Logoth.

 

Interesting though, could it have been the Gohlam that nullified it? If i remember correctly, weaves dissolve when they touch the Gohlam. Could it have been ordered to simply walk through the waygate, thus dissolving the trap?

 

Doesn't work that way. The trap merely wouldn't affect him.

 

I think the point about the Caemlyn waygate being booby-trapped is that Rand made a big deal about blocking all the Waygates - the whole plot with Loial and the other Ogier helping - that it is easy to assume that he would have taken care of the Caemlyn one, since he was situated in Caemlyn at the time,

 

But you are correct. There is no mention of the Caemlyn Waygate being taken care of (from memory) and it can definitely be possible that it was not seen to, However, he had the help of Loial's mother etc... So even if he did forget about it, surely they would have sensed it and brought it up. Unless of course, they assumed he had already dealt with it..... The possibilities go on.

 

Fair enough about the Gohlam, do you have a quote or example to support that? I am not saying you are wrong, I do not remember anything that ruled this out (I haven't reviewed the Quote Database, so my memory of it is sketchy) I just remember Elayne or Nynaeve or someone remark that the weaves simply dissolved when they tried channeling at it. So confirmation would be appreciated !

[Maleshub]

But you are correct. There is no mention of the Caemlyn Waygate being taken care of (from memory) and it can definitely be possible that it was not seen to, However, he had the help of Loial's mother etc... So even if he did forget about it, surely they would have sensed it and brought it up. Unless of course, they assumed he had already dealt with it..... The possibilities go on.

 

From memory and after a quick reference, here is a quote:

 

LoC: A Saying in the Borderlands (10)

 

"The Ways; that was no feather. He had the Waygate here in Caemlyn under guard, and those near Tear and Cairhien; but he could not even be sure how many more there were."

 

It says that the waygate is under guard. No specific mention of booby traps though!

[kght22]

But you are correct. There is no mention of the Caemlyn Waygate being taken care of (from memory) and it can definitely be possible that it was not seen to, However, he had the help of Loial's mother etc... So even if he did forget about it, surely they would have sensed it and brought it up. Unless of course, they assumed he had already dealt with it..... The possibilities go on.

 

From memory and after a quick reference, here is a quote:

 

LoC: A Saying in the Borderlands (10)

 

"The Ways; that was no feather. He had the Waygate here in Caemlyn under guard, and those near Tear and Cairhien; but he could not even be sure how many more there were."

 

It says that the waygate is under guard. No specific mention of booby traps though!

 

oh yah, he trapped the waygate in shadar logoth, there is no mention of traps on any other. but either the shadar logoth trap was disabled or samael (bad spelling) brought trollocs and myrdral (horrible spelling) cross country. but i would think that he would have trapped any waygate that he was near and could find, but maybe not, but he did send loial with an asha'man, for the gateways, but possibly for more? i assume that he trapped any gate he could, but i dont know, it is "ass u me", but he did trap the gate in shadar logoth.

[Byzantine279]

Actually due to the nature of the trap on that gate, he likely brought them through and the weave simply hadn't acted yet.

[kght22]

Actually due to the nature of the trap on that gate, he likely brought them through and the weave simply hadn't acted yet.

i've heard this somewhere before, i dont think(remember) it was the books, makes me think of wotmania for some reason. but it might be in the books. but if true it makes what they are doing more of a raid than anything else. and verin wouldn't know that rand had done anything with the waygate even though she would know that he knows where it is.

[Byzantine279]

In the book Rand thought about how he had put a delay on the weave's killing of shadowspawn, so that they would have time to move more shadowspawn through the gateway so more would be killed by the trap. It gave them to get a fair distance out of the city, I believe.

 

Unfortunately, it never said he put a ward on the Camylen waygate, and even if he did they likely broke it.

[kght22]

In the book Rand thought about how he had put a delay on the weave's killing of shadowspawn, so that they would have time to move more shadowspawn through the gateway so more would be killed by the trap. It gave them to get a fair distance out of the city, I believe.

 

Unfortunately, it never said he put a ward on the Camylen waygate, and even if he did they likely broke it.

+1

[Barid Bel Medar]

In the book Rand thought about how he had put a delay on the weave's killing of shadowspawn, so that they would have time to move more shadowspawn through the gateway so more would be killed by the trap. It gave them to get a fair distance out of the city, I believe.

 

Unfortunately, it never said he put a ward on the Camylen waygate, and even if he did they likely broke it.

 

Pretty much the sum off it.

 

Conversely, Talmanes seeing Caemlyn on fire could be the result of the Trollocs spontaneously bursting into flame like a nightflower because of said trap.

[David Selig]

Rand mentioned in KoD :

"I’ve sealed the Waygates I know, in Caemlyn and Cairhien, Illian and Tear, and I put a very nasty trap on the one that was cut open near Fal Dara".

[Barid Bel Medar]

Rand mentioned in KoD :

"I’ve sealed the Waygates I know, in Caemlyn and Cairhien, Illian and Tear, and I put a very nasty trap on the one that was cut open near Fal Dara".

 

Indeed. I am getting pretty rusty to have missed all this. It is even in Verin's letter.

 

Towers of Midnight Epilogue: And After

There is a Waygate in Caemlyn, It is guarded, barricaded, and thought secured. It is not.

 

So yeah, she basically answers the whole thread in this one line.

 

Rand thought he secured it. "It is not"

[rand4747]

from what i remember he had it guarded but not booby trapped. I guess it was just a major oversight, guards couldn't effectively deal with what may come out of those. Or comes to help something come out of those.

[ironisles]

from what i remember he had it guarded but not booby trapped. I guess it was just a major oversight, guards couldn't effectively deal with what may come out of those. Or comes to help something come out of those.

 

I would be mystified to wonder why they didn't remove the leaf from the gate, at the very least fill the basement with rubble to keep it from opening. That's gotta be a plot hole as big as a house heh.

[Byzantine279]

As Verin stated, removing the leaf would not have been enough.

[ironisles]

As Verin stated, removing the leaf would not have been enough.

 

Then pull down the house over it and fill it full of rocks.. if it can't open you can't use it.

[Byzantine279]

Waygates don't really physically open from what I understand, and besides, a Channeler could just throw all of that aside on a whim. Moiraine was able to cut through a waygate on short notice while trying to hold back Machin Shin (sp?, been too long).

[rand4747]

yea a channeler could work their way through whatever you blocked it with, (could block it with the power i guess but a deadly trap is more effective :P)

[Luckers]

I really hope there is a good answer than this aMoL. More than a simple 'Moridin waved his hand and with his almight tempestuos power, dispelled the warding'. Something solidly bound in the metaphysical laws of the world would be nice--things like Elza breaking the ward because she was 'given special knowledge' are starting to wear thin, at least for me.

 

That being said, it has been spoken of since book four that there are ways to spin holes in wardings, but that they cause considerable pain. One idea I like for why Rand's warding here might have been broken, but the one he put on Callandor in the stone was not, was the idea that maybe spinning a hole through such a complex warding would cause such pain it couldn't feasibly be done. But, if, on the other hand, Moridin broken one of his cour'souvra and used Moghedien like a puppet....?

 

Especially if it killed her or damaged her badly. It would pay the price for the the broken warding without making continuity faux pas of the earlier lack.

[Byzantine279]

They would likely have just used some generic Black Aes Sedai, not one of the Forsaken, who the Dark One is unlikely to want to use up quite yet.

 

Also, I do believe that it was never stated he acctually put a ward on that one, as we spent much of the first page trying to determine.

[ironisles]

Well.. true the power could remove the rubble. I guess not having the Ogier close it up is just a plot hole. Or something.

[FarShainMael]

Perhaps there is an Ogier DF around!

 

There's been a lot of discussion about whether it's possible for an Ogier to be a DF - personally I don't see why they couldn't be. Interestingly, BS has apparently RAFOed this:

 

http://wot.wikia.com/wiki/WOTRR_17_January_2011