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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

The Lord of the Grave and "Resurrection"


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It has probably been answered before, but I forget, and can't seem to find a quote from RJ regarding the extent of my question. I know he explains HOW the body-swapping deal goes, but I was curious as to the following.

 

When the soul of the Forsaken is transferred to the body, what happens to the soul that was in the body previously?

 

Does the DO "eat" the previous soul?

Is the soul "pushed out" by the Forsaken's soul?

Is it still trapped in there but powerless?

Is the person dead at the time, thus meaning the soul has already left the body?

 

 

From recollection, I think that it is the last one, just a dead body (or husk) used. But then this also brings up questions,

 

Does the DO use some kind of mummification or something to slow the rotting process? Or is the soul destroyed (or person killed) just before the transfer, thus relatively "fresh".

 

Some other interesting points (unless, of course, the question has been answered and all of this topic is nonsense),

 

1. What happens to the soul of the body? Does it return to the wheel to be spun out again like normal? Or does the DO destroy the soul, similar to the Grey Men, where the DO "eats" the soul? (although, i recall that the soul has to be given freely by the Grey men, suggesting that it is not possible without permission)

 

2. What "technique" does the DO use in extracting the soul, and similiarly inserting the Forsaken into the body? Could be something important in regards to Rand "dying" and possibly living again.

 

3. IT seems that the soul-taking process is similar to those who have been attacked by Machin-Shin. I know that the Black Wind is not the DO or the TP, but a manifestation of the Taint, however, the technique itself may share similiarities with that of the DO's, and if that's the case, could the scene where we see the "soulless" Ogier in tGH be a hint or give us more information than meets the eye, foreshadowing a larger role for the Ways and the Black Wind?

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Or a soulless body like a greyman or one of the husks created in the forging of the Myrddraal blades.

 

Ahh, thats a good one, and brings up another good point. What exactly happens to the people who get "forged"? Is it like the soul-ripping, or actual quenching the blade in blood or something. Not expecting an answer, just good points.

 

I think that the forging thing is an interesting possibility.

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I believe this is the most complete explanation we have on the topic...

 

Interview: Apr 20th, 2004

TOR Questions of the Week Part I (Verbatim)

Week 3 Question (Matt Hatch)

There are many theories that attempt to create a connection of time duration to the transmigration of the dead Forsaken. Are there time and/or power constraints on the Dark One's ability to transmigrate souls?

Robert Jordan

 

There are definitely time constraints on the Dark One's power to transmigrate a soul. The soul doesn't have to be secured immediately—that is, the Dark One doesn't have to be ready to snatch the soul at the instant of death—but the longer that passes after the death, the less chance that the Dark One will be able to secure the soul. Someone who has been killed with balefire in actuality died before the apparent time of his or her death, and thus the window of opportunity for the Dark One to secure that soul for transmigration is gone before the Dark One can know that the soul must be secured unless the amount of balefire used is very small. Remember that the more balefire is used, the further back the target's thread is burned out of the Pattern.

 

 

After the soul is secured, then a suitable body must be acquired and stripped of the (former) owner's memory and soul to make way for the favored one. By the way, what constitutes a suitable body from the Dark One's perspective is not that of the recipient. Certainly Aginor would never have chosen to be reincarnated in his, shall we say, less than imposing body, nor would the womanizing Balthamel have chosen to be reincarnated as a beautiful woman. It was only chance that Moridin ended up in a body that is young, fairly good looking and physically imposing. Those things simply don't matter to the Dark One. But the body has to be basically healthy and sound, and neither too young nor too old. After all, the Dark One wants his servants to be effective, and a body that meets those basic requirements is more desirable than one that doesn't. Since there is no stockpile of such bodies, the only way for someone to die and immediately be reincarnated would be a matter of pure chance. That is, the death occurred when a suitable body was on hand for some other reason.

There are a few other limits and constraints, but I won't go into them here, since I may want to use them in the books, and I would rather they come as a surprise if I do.

Edited by Suttree
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The Dark One does not actually have the ability to control the dead. it's actua;lly made clear in his dealings with the fallen forsaken.

 

The Dark One exists outside of time and space. With his prison shattered, he is free to move into a point in time where he is already free and pull a person's reborn self into the past.

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The Dark One does not actually have the ability to control the dead. it's actua;lly made clear in his dealings with the fallen forsaken.

 

The Dark One exists outside of time and space. With his prison shattered, he is free to move into a point in time where he is already free and pull a person's reborn self into the past.

 

He does have power over the dead with see it with Kari Al Thor, it is even stronger for those who have sworn to him. He also has a fair amount of control over souls as evidenced by the quote above. Not sure what you mean by the second part of your post?

 

First off his prison is not shattered, it has a whole bored into it which was then patched. Second there is nothing to indicate the DO moves to a point where he is free to grab souls. It doesn't work like that. He is constrained by time as evidence by his inability to resurrect those killed by balefire.

Edited by Suttree
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