Agelessness: What does it look like?

[Zappa3837]

Recently, while reading WOT (I'm on "Knife of Dreams"), I've finally become conscious of my innability to imagine what it means to look ageless. At first i thought it was sort of synonymous with unchanging youthfulness, but later on a distinction is made about the two when Siuan and Leane. There is probably some material describing agelessness that I either forgot about or didn't read it carefully enough. It's tough for me to keep everything together in a series as massive as WOT. Can anybody give me some quotes, or explain in your own words, what agelessness is supposed to be. Your help would be greatly appreciated, as I am having such a difficult time imagining what it looks like.

[Nightstrike]

Those who are stilled look younger than they used to. I guess the agelessness is the same as some 30-50 year old person who has done a lot ot beauty-modifications. Their skins are tighter, smoother, and so on. Not quite as young as they used to be, but without any of the most apparent signs of ageing.

[Azrayne]

Those who are stilled look younger than they used to. I guess the agelessness is the same as some 30-50 year old person who has done a lot ot beauty-modifications. Their skins are tighter, smoother, and so on. Not quite as young as they used to be, but without any of the most apparent signs of ageing.

 

That's how I always thought it. Especially since iirc it's described somewhere as a 'tightening of the skin' as a side effect of the Oath Rod's use.

[James al'Dylan]

I agree, I've thought of it a bit like some of the cosmetic surgery that tightens the skin. Personally I've always thought that Sheriam would look a bit like Gates McFadden (Dr. Beverly Crusher) from Star Trek the Next Generation (not withstanding Sheriam's from Saldea - and no disrespect meant to Gates McFadden either if she hasn't...ehm...had surgery!).

[Nightstrike]

Personally I've always thought that Sheriam would look a bit like Gates McFadden (Dr. Beverly Crusher) from Star Trek the Next Generation (not withstanding Sheriam's from Saldea - and no disrespect meant to Gates McFadden either if she hasn't...ehm...had surgery!).

I guess some of the women who aren't Aes Sedai, but who are the rare few without visible wrinkles when they're 40 (or something like that?) would stand a great chance of being mistaken for the real deal in Randland - when they meet people that don't already know who they are, I mean.

[Alric]

Is the tightening of the skin described as more than the feeling of taking the oath? Just wondering.

 

I have problems imagining it as well. We know that those who are stilled end up looking younger and different (Siuan/Leane), even if they haven't been Aes Sedai for long and wouldn't look that old if aged normally either. Siuan and Leane are barely 40 and end up looking 25ish when stilled.

 

We are also told of the older Aes Sedai who according to descriptions look exactly like other Aes Sedai and its only the white/gray hair that give away their real age.

 

These (in my opinion somewhat conflicting) facts must mean that the "ageless" look is quite distinctive. But only people who have seen Aes Sedai before seem to be able to recognize the look, regular people don't.

 

So it puzzles me.

[Alric]

Rand meeting Moiraine for the first time, having not seen an Aes Sedai before:

 

Rand's gaze fell to the woman who had spoken. She, too, had been watching the flight of the raven, but now she turned back, and her eyes met his. He could only stare. This had to be the Lady Moiraine, and she was everything that Mat and Ewin had said, everything and more.

 

When he had heard she called Nynaeve child, he had pictured her as old, but she was not. At least, he could not put any age to her at all. At first he thought she was as young as Nynaeve, but the longer he looked the more he thought she was older than that. There was a maturity about her large, dark eyes, a hint of knowing that no one could have gotten young. For an instant he thought those eyes were deep pools about to swallow him up.

 

Moiraine is 42 here. He mistakes Moiraine for being Nynaeve's age which is 25. But Nynaeve has slowed to look 21-ish as confirmed by Tylin (or was it Setalle?), we just don't know if the slowing is in effect in EotW. He doesn't mention the skin, it is the eyes that makes him suspect Moiraine is older. Yet she can easily be mistaken for being very young.

 

Do you see why I have a problem squaring this with Siuan being stilled at age 41-ish and suddenly looking much younger and much more beautiful as confirmed by the text?

[Mats Spare Hat]

The answer, is Elle Macpherson.

[Kahsm]

The answer, is Elle Macpherson.

 

^^ This. Or I just want to believe there's a whole tower full of them...

[Thornan]

The descriptions of agelessness always make me think of Botox, etc.. You can tell that they look younger than they are, if not why. They don't have a natural look of youth, but aged faces that are uneffected by the marks of age (wrinkles, frown/smile lines, etc.). This makes the most sense to me, but I would like to see some more opinions on this.

[Dagon Thyne]

The simplest way to portray agelessness would be with makeup. Look at the Lord of the Rings...They portrayed the agelessness of the elves very well, without the need of CGI and other expensive effects.

[Byzantine279]

@Alric:

 

The oaths acctually cause Aes Sedai to look "older" (ie gain the ageless appearence). When Suian and Leane were severed, they were 40ish but would normally have had the appearence of someone in their early-mid twenties. Severing someone does not undo the effect the OP has already had on their aging, meaning if a 200-year-old was severed they wouldn't drop dead on the spot, rather if they weren't Aes Sedai they would have the same appearence, but from that point forward begin aging normally. If they were Aes Sedai they would be freed from the oath rod, which would in turn cause them to revert to the age they "should" appear to be, and then they will begin aging normally from there. So Suian appearing 25 isn't odd at all, her becoming more beautiful is simply because she would have looked that way if she had not taken the oaths, and hence is coincidental.

[Dagon Thyne]

@Alric:

 

The oaths acctually cause Aes Sedai to look "older" (ie gain the ageless appearence). When Suian and Leane were severed, they were 40ish but would normally have had the appearence of someone in their early-mid twenties. Severing someone does not undo the effect the OP has already had on their aging, meaning if a 200-year-old was severed they wouldn't drop dead on the spot, rather if they weren't Aes Sedai they would have the same appearence, but from that point forward begin aging normally. If they were Aes Sedai they would be freed from the oath rod, which would in turn cause them to revert to the age they "should" appear to be, and then they will begin aging normally from there. So Suian appearing 25 isn't odd at all, her becoming more beautiful is simply because she would have looked that way if she had not taken the oaths, and hence is coincidental.

 

The oath rod also causes a channelor to loose their lengthened life. Aes Sedai from the AOL lived for hundreds of years.

[Byzantine279]

@Alric:

 

The oaths acctually cause Aes Sedai to look "older" (ie gain the ageless appearence). When Suian and Leane were severed, they were 40ish but would normally have had the appearence of someone in their early-mid twenties. Severing someone does not undo the effect the OP has already had on their aging, meaning if a 200-year-old was severed they wouldn't drop dead on the spot, rather if they weren't Aes Sedai they would have the same appearence, but from that point forward begin aging normally. If they were Aes Sedai they would be freed from the oath rod, which would in turn cause them to revert to the age they "should" appear to be, and then they will begin aging normally from there. So Suian appearing 25 isn't odd at all, her becoming more beautiful is simply because she would have looked that way if she had not taken the oaths, and hence is coincidental.

 

The oath rod also causes a channelor to loose their lengthened life. Aes Sedai from the AOL lived for hundreds of years.

 

Not completely. rather, 3 oaths appears to half how long they live, so from 600 to 300 years, roughly. Apparently the more oaths the greater the effect, both visibly and on their lifespan. We are also unsure if releasing the oaths will then grant you back your original lifespan, though Suian's appearence change does make that seem more likely.

[Dagon Thyne]

@Alric:

 

The oaths acctually cause Aes Sedai to look "older" (ie gain the ageless appearence). When Suian and Leane were severed, they were 40ish but would normally have had the appearence of someone in their early-mid twenties. Severing someone does not undo the effect the OP has already had on their aging, meaning if a 200-year-old was severed they wouldn't drop dead on the spot, rather if they weren't Aes Sedai they would have the same appearence, but from that point forward begin aging normally. If they were Aes Sedai they would be freed from the oath rod, which would in turn cause them to revert to the age they "should" appear to be, and then they will begin aging normally from there. So Suian appearing 25 isn't odd at all, her becoming more beautiful is simply because she would have looked that way if she had not taken the oaths, and hence is coincidental.

 

The oath rod also causes a channelor to loose their lengthened life. Aes Sedai from the AOL lived for hundreds of years.

 

Not completely. rather, 3 oaths appears to half how long they live, so from 600 to 300 years, roughly. Apparently the more oaths the greater the effect, both visibly and on their lifespan. We are also unsure if releasing the oaths will then grant you back your original lifespan, though Suian's appearence change does make that seem more likely.

 

if they are not released, they die....that is the secret......That is why older Aes Sedai go into retirement, so they can die in peace.

[Azrayne]

But even in the AOL channelers died of old age eventually (presumably), it just took 2 - 3x as long as it takes for an Aes Sedai who's taken the 3 oaths.

 

I find it a little hard to believe that nobody noticed this change when they first started using the Oath Rod (some time between the Trolloc Wars and Hawkwing). Aes Sedai lifespan is cut in half in a single generation and it doesn't elicit the slightest comment?

[Nightstrike]

I find it a little hard to believe that nobody noticed this change when they first started using the Oath Rod (some time between the Trolloc Wars and Hawkwing). Aes Sedai lifespan is cut in half in a single generation and it doesn't elicit the slightest comment?

People probably died of other things during those centuries. Starvation, natural disasters, violence (human and shadowspawn), ... People may have noticed, but not been eager to dwell on it. Rebirth may have made shorter lifespans seem less fearsome? Channelers caused the Breaking, so they thought they needed to have control over each other, and to show non-channelers that they could be trusted.

[Azrayne]

Yeah but this is 1500 or so years after the breaking, so it's not like the world was in turmoil and the oaths were a direct reaction to that.

[Alric]

@Alric:

 

The oaths acctually cause Aes Sedai to look "older" (ie gain the ageless appearence). When Suian and Leane were severed, they were 40ish but would normally have had the appearence of someone in their early-mid twenties. [...] So Suian appearing 25 isn't odd at all, her becoming more beautiful is simply because she would have looked that way if she had not taken the oaths, and hence is coincidental.

But I can't make sense of the fact that Moiraine can be mistaken for a 21-25 year old in that case. She became AS at 22 (and would probably have slowed before that), so I fail to see at which point she would then look "older", if she gained her current appearance at that time then at best she would only occasionally be perceived as older.

 

Siuan on the other hand is described as going through quite a big change, she wasn't all that pretty before her stilling, but RJ makes a point out of her good looks after it and herself and others are surprised about it.

 

I think RJ messed up slightly, or I am missing something. Maybe the fact that Moiraine is exceptionally good looking could fool some people, but that's the only explanation I can think of.

[Nightstrike]

Yeah but this is 1500 or so years after the breaking, so it's not like the world was in turmoil and the oaths were a direct reaction to that.

The first oath second oath (sorry, the first oath that was adopted was actually the one known as the "second") was adopted soon after the founding, which was probably around 98 AB. That's when they started building the White Tower. (Elisane Tishar had held the title "Amyrlin Seat" at least a few years before 98 AB.)

 

That's well within the lifespan of Aes Sedai, even with oaths.

[Azrayne]

Yeah but this is 1500 or so years after the breaking, so it's not like the world was in turmoil and the oaths were a direct reaction to that.

The first oath second oath (sorry, the first oath that was adopted was actually the one known as the "second") was adopted soon after the founding, which was probably around 98 AB. That's when they started building the White Tower. (Elisane Tishar had held the title "Amyrlin Seat" at least a few years before 98 AB.)

 

That's well within the lifespan of Aes Sedai, even with oaths.

 

Are you sure? I'm fairly certain I remember reading somewhere that the Oath Rod wasn't even found until 1500 or so years after the Breaking.

 

These oaths were never necessary in the past, however sometime between the Trolloc Wars and the War of the Hundred Years it was decided that Aes Sedai needed to show the world that their use of the One Power was not a threat,^[1]

 

http://wot.wikia.com/wiki/Three_Oaths

 

Must have been pretty funny for the Forsaken to wake up, make contact with the Black Ajah then find out that Aes Sedai are all halving their lifespans and binding themselves as criminals.

[Suttree]

Are you sure? I'm fairly certain I remember reading somewhere that the Oath Rod wasn't even found until 1500 or so years after the Breaking.

 

These oaths were never necessary in the past, however sometime between the Trolloc Wars and the War of the Hundred Years it was decided that Aes Sedai needed to show the world that their use of the One Power was not a threat,^[1]

 

http://wot.wikia.com/wiki/Three_Oaths

 

 

We do have this...

 

 

 

Luckers

 

When were the Oaths implemented? Were they all done at the same time? If not, when were each put in place?

Maria Simons

 

 

From the BBoBA: "These oaths were not always required, but various events before and since the Breaking caused them to be necessary. The Second Oath was the first adopted after the War of the Shadow."

And according to Sheriam, "Once, Aes Sedai were not required to swear oaths. It was known what Aes Sedai were and what they stood for, and there was no need for more. Many of us wish it were so still. But the Wheel turns, and the times change. That we swear these oaths, that we are known to be bound, allows the nations to deal with us without fearing that we will throw up our own power, the One Power, against them. Between the Trolloc Wars and the War of the Hundred Years we made these choices, and because of them the White Tower still stands, and we can still do what we can against the Shadow."

So we have the Second Oath was adopted first, and the other two added between the Trolloc Wars and the War of a Hundred Years (if we believe Sheriam, anyway, and I can see no reason for a lie on this one).

 

 

WoT Wiki for all it's good intentions has mistakes and often makes some odd assumptions. It's not really excepted as a source on any of the WoT sites.

[Azrayne]

The oath was sworn, yes, but was it bound with the Oath Rod?

 

Might go back and try dig up the passage I read (think it was COT). Idc either way, but I'd swear I read that they didn't have the rod itself until post-Trolloc War.

[Nightstrike]

BWB:

The second oath was the first adopted, soon after the Tower's founding, at a time when the Breaking was a living memory to some Aes Sedai and stories of the War of the Shadow were well remembered.

[Nightstrike]

Wars and the War of the Hundred Years we made these choices, and because of them the White Tower still stands, and we can still do what we can against the Shadow."

So we have the Second Oath was adopted first, and the other two added between the Trolloc Wars and the War of a Hundred Years (if we believe Sheriam, anyway, and I can see no reason for a lie on this one).

The other two ...