Ba'alzamon

[ShowMeYourRage]

The more I read the early books, the more I think the Dark One took control over Ishamael. When Rand fought him in the Stone of Tear Ishamael shouted aid me and the black mist around him moved. Could this have been where the Dark One took control over Ishamaels body?

[TLHansum]

The more i read, the more i think that Baalzamon is just the early bookism badguy. You cant really apply much of baalzamon to the current books because he doesnt follow much or any of the rules that RJ later laid out on how the world works.

[Arath Faringal]

When one of the other Forsaken is talking about the True Power, it is mentioned that you need the Dark One's permission every time you touch it. The only thing that I can think of that explains that part is that he was asking for more of the True Power to fight against Callandor, and Rand, with his ability to see certain things that nobody else can (cords running off male forsaken for example) perceived the black cloud. Or ... the flaming eyes and mouth are usually attributed to advanced TP addiction. Perhaps the cloud is another such symptom, of over channeling the TP.

 

I think it was also simply meant to make us realize that Ba'alzamon was not, in fact, the Dark One himself. Who's the Dark One going to call for help? The Creator?

[condonmc]

The more i read, the more i think that Baalzamon is just the early bookism badguy. You cant really apply much of baalzamon to the current books because he doesnt follow much or any of the rules that RJ later laid out on how the world works.

-

 

Yes but alot of that was in Tel-a-dream-a-roiad, so whatever that means..

[Tyzack]

When one of the other Forsaken is talking about the True Power, it is mentioned that you need the Dark One's permission every time you touch it. The only thing that I can think of that explains that part is that he was asking for more of the True Power to fight against Callandor, and Rand, with his ability to see certain things that nobody else can (cords running off male forsaken for example) perceived the black cloud. Or ... the flaming eyes and mouth are usually attributed to advanced TP addiction. Perhaps the cloud is another such symptom, of over channeling the TP.

 

I think it was also simply meant to make us realize that Ba'alzamon was not, in fact, the Dark One himself. Who's the Dark One going to call for help? The Creator?

 

I just finished that in my re-read, and was thinking that the aura of darnkess around ishmael, was also a manifestation of channeling the TP for too long - think of how tuan saw "darkness" around rand in TGS, but to the nth degreee.

[TheLagomorph]

I agree that the 'aid me' and darkness thing is not something that really occurs later on and this might well be because of RJ still working out the world.

 

As to the darkness around Rand, I thought it was 'simply' Rand's aura tainted. So after VoG he it is not tainted anymore and now it is white/light. I put 'simply' since this aura, similar to the darkness 'aiding' Ishy also does not seem to have a place withing the known framework of one power/true power/tel-a-dream etc...

[rand4747]

Rands aura is likely to do with his taverin abilitys and when hes actively bending the pattern to his will. Black is bad white is good. the TP though may also create an aura but differently.

[ShowMeYourRage]

I agree that the 'aid me' and darkness thing is not something that really occurs later on and this might well be because of RJ still working out the world.

 

As to the darkness around Rand, I thought it was 'simply' Rand's aura tainted. So after VoG he it is not tainted anymore and now it is white/light. I put 'simply' since this aura, similar to the darkness 'aiding' Ishy also does not seem to have a place withing the known framework of one power/true power/tel-a-dream etc...

 

I disagree that the aid me from earlier doesnt fit with later rules. I think it is exactly the same as the Dark One being able to speak through Shaidar Haran. I think Ishamaels True Power habit is what made the Dark One able to take control, so naturally we wouldn't have had chance to see it again via any other human character as they all scorn the True Power and never really used it.

[Byzantine279]

Didn't that "aid me" part occur in TAR? If it did, then that is the explanation, he simply was trying to intimidate Rand using TAR, or perhaps speaking allowed strengthened his influence.

[AltonJakeStorey]

In ToM Moridin listens to the DO, why can't he talk to him? Greandal wasn't giving complete access to the TP, so maybe Ishy wasn't either. DO is distrusting enough to hold out on some power as something for Ishy to have to earn. It doesn't seem off to me.

[Simpleman2012]

Baalzamon is Moridin.

 

In book 1 prologue, we read a guy named Elan beside Lewis Therin when he went nuts and created Dragonmount.

 

Then in Rand's earliest dreams, Baalzamon appeared there and told Rand he was beside Lewis Therin when the same thing happened.

 

In book 13, Rand had a conversation with a tired Moridin in his dream, where Lewis Therin called him Elan.

 

 

Once we figure out who Baalzamon or Moridin is, next would be to know who is the Dark One.

 

The Dark One may not have a physical representation, but do have the power to give life back to those it favours whom had died. It is a representation of a dark power to balance nature, a special force that is able to empower and aid those whom it favours to help bring about the opposite of creation - destruction, not only just in one location, but across worlds.

 

Thus the desire to be of the Chosen, by many, for when one world is destroyed, many other worlds await for chaos to reign and bring about destruction. Within that period, a life of indulgent selfish power and wealth awaits for the immortal Chosen.

 

The top of the heap being the Nablis - Moridin, who had clawed to the top by stepping upon millions of heads sacrificed, including the heads of the chosen whom failed and were discarded permanently.

 

 

However, the Light is not without power. Its power is far stronger and has far more better odds than the dark, as with each rotation of the Wheel of Time, it sends off empathetic warriors and intellectuals to destroy or at least contain the Dark, and fully depended on the help of then culture of the people - to egalitarianly seek for the Light or through selfishness, bring about doom for all.

[Suttree]

The Dark One may not have a physical representation,

 

Except he does in Shaidar Haran...

[Simpleman2012]

Shaidar Haran is Mydraal and created by Aignor. He, like all the Forsaken, are indeed physical representation, but only representatives of the Dark One, and is not the Dark One.

 

The Dark One is a power source, and exist as a power source, something which we in this age may not yet be able to comprehend other than to expect human-like physical appearance of such 'beings'.

 

While the Dark gave his representatives no choices except to destroy all creation, even themselves, but the Light gave the humans choices.

 

During the initial stages, Rand thought he was just a weapon for the last battle, and thus he became cold, angry and hate driven, becoming alike the dark forces, and at times even ridicule the stupidity of the Wheel of time - a continous cycle of birth, deaths, repetitions of mistakes.

 

But fortunately, later when alone on dragonmount, through the help of Tam and Cadsuane, he realizes his mistakes. The Wheel of Time and throwing him up as the Dragon Reborn had a purpose - It was to give the humans the choice to live and love, a chance to correct errors with each cycle, by empowering Rand to unite humankind with common purposes against destruction, or to selfishly and indidividually/collectively doom themselves.

[Suttree]

Shaidar Haran is Mydraal and created by Aignor. He, like all the Forsaken, are indeed physical representation, but only representatives of the Dark One, and is not the Dark One.

 

Nope SH is different...

 

Interview: Sep 3rd, 2005

DragonCon Signing Reports - Matt Hatch (Verbatim)

Ted Herman

Is Shaidar Haran an avatar to the world beyond the Bore?

Robert Jordan

I am not certain you can really call him an avatar because I generally think of an avatar as having exactly the same powers as, and it is not, Shaidar Haran does not have nearly as much power as the Dark One. It's as though the Dark One is able to project a shadowy form of himself into this creature. It is the Dark One in shadowy form.

Ted Herman

Is it twenty-four seven, or just part time?

Robert Jordan

Twenty-four seven.