A Basic Game: Mafia Wins!

[Myndrunner]

Votecount

Razen - Aemon, Mynd, BG, Perf, Key, Ishy, Cosmic, Arez (8)

Cosmic - Razen, Sakaea (2)

Aemon - Red (1)

 

Not Voting: Amega, Levity

 

With 14 alive it takes 8 to lynch

Common mafia rule: On a given town bandwagon, the latter half is typically full of mafia trying to lay low.

 

This is true especially with dogpiles before deadline.

 

I suspect one of the five bolded above has got to be mafia to bandwagon like they did. If we rule out Cosmic for trying some actual scum hunting and not because he's the cop because he clearly isn't as he stated, then at least one of Arez, Key, Ishy, and Perfexionist has gotta be mafia, if not more than one. Thoughts?

[Aiel Heart]

Well that flew off into space.... Meh.

 

Votecount

Razen - Aemon, Mynd, BG, Perf, Key, Ishy, Cosmic, Arez (8)

Cosmic - Razen, Sakaea (2)

Aemon - Red (1)

 

Not Voting: Amega, Levity

 

With 14 alive it takes 8 to lynch

 

Red had just also switched to Razen, and I'm pretty sure I'm in this game but was not voting :P

 

BAH! I give up! The joke phase can be useful, it’s how most games pick up steam. You can learn a lot from the silly stuff. Ours was just very extreme compact silliness. Silly ain’t always bad or not useful. But whatever. Think whatever you want Red :P

 

A few things Arez said rubbed me wrong, but idk if that was just because he’s new. Haven’t really noticed Key. Ishy’s seemed odd this game. Fex hasn’t been around much but pulled a wombat. Something in my gut is not liking Forrest...

[Red2111]

Nol, how come Mynd's vote isn't behind Arez's?? and why isn't AH on the VC??

 

Cosmic Panda said he's not cop. I understand why he would say this. Cop or not, he claims to be 100% sure of Aemon Kristen. In the game of mafia, the only thing you can be 100% sure of is your own alignment, unless you are a cop and even then you have to deal with Godfathers, Bus drivers, etc. For Cosmic Panda to stake his role in the game, he had to have been pretty sure about Aemon Kristen but went about it in a way that didn't fully explain on Day 1 why he was 100% sure. I get it.

 

Red, if I said that I am 100% sure you are scum without any reason, would you not ask why?

 

well you stated that before he clarified that he wasn't the cop. i'm not commenting abotu you asking for clarification, it's more that i feel you were doign the same thing as Kae only being a bit more underhanded abotu it rather than up front like Kae was.

 

 

i'm honestly finding it very hard to put down in words what i'm trying to get across here, so i'll drop it for now. aside fromt eh fact it's not the biggest ping i've gotten from you so far and therefor isn't really worth that much attention.

 

 

 

Votecount

Razen - Aemon, Mynd, BG, Perf, Key, Ishy, Cosmic, Arez (8)

Cosmic - Razen, Sakaea (2)

Aemon - Red (1)

 

Not Voting: Amega, Levity

 

With 14 alive it takes 8 to lynch

Common mafia rule: On a given town bandwagon, the latter half is typically full of mafia trying to lay low.

 

This is true especially with dogpiles before deadline.

 

I suspect one of the five bolded above has got to be mafia to bandwagon like they did. If we rule out Cosmic for trying some actual scum hunting and not because he's the cop because he clearly isn't as he stated, then at least one of Arez, Key, Ishy, and Perfexionist has gotta be mafia, if not more than one. Thoughts?

 

i disagree about your common rule. imo scum you'll liekly find a scum vote near the beginning (like vote #3 or #4) and then some near the end of the lynch but spread out with the remaining spreading their vote elsewhere.

 

i do think theres a good chance that none of the scum are among the non-voters since the rule is a random from the no lynchers; which would also explain why the Razen lynch ended up stalling out there near the end. but i believe AH was a non-voter so i dunno, my gut is pinging her hard core. that said, using this logic, the ping i had on Kae for her panda vote just got alot stronger.

 

 

Well that flew off into space.... Meh.

 

Votecount

Razen - Aemon, Mynd, BG, Perf, Key, Ishy, Cosmic, Arez (8)

Cosmic - Razen, Sakaea (2)

Aemon - Red (1)

 

Not Voting: Amega, Levity

 

With 14 alive it takes 8 to lynch

 

Red had just also switched to Razen, and I'm pretty sure I'm in this game but was not voting :P

 

BAH! I give up! The joke phase can be useful, it’s how most games pick up steam. You can learn a lot from the silly stuff. Ours was just very extreme compact silliness. Silly ain’t always bad or not useful. But whatever. Think whatever you want Red :P

 

A few things Arez said rubbed me wrong, but idk if that was just because he’s new. Haven’t really noticed Key. Ishy’s seemed odd this game. Fex hasn’t been around much but pulled a wombat. Something in my gut is not liking Forrest...

 

actually, i disagree, there wasn't a joke phase in this game because Mynd kicked it off rather early with his supposed scum hunting.

[Nolder]

Nol, how come Mynd's vote isn't behind Arez's?? and why isn't AH on the VC??

I had Mynd down as voting twice

I made a mistake

when Mynd voted again I just left the vote I already had up on Razen and just erased his other vote

I usually try to be accurate with votecounts but I was half asleep when I typed out that last one

which also explains why I didn't put AH on the VC

 

could someone tell me if she was voting and I missed it?

for now I'll put her down as if she wasn't voting though

[bgrishinko]

At least he was vanilla.

 

I'm thinking now that we look at Cosmic and Aemon more carefully.

 

 

[keyholder21]

Votecount

Razen - Aemon, Mynd, BG, Perf, Key, Ishy, Cosmic, Arez (8)

Cosmic - Razen, Sakaea (2)

Aemon - Red (1)

 

Not Voting: Amega, Levity

 

With 14 alive it takes 8 to lynch

Common mafia rule: On a given town bandwagon, the latter half is typically full of mafia trying to lay low.

 

This is true especially with dogpiles before deadline.

 

I suspect one of the five bolded above has got to be mafia to bandwagon like they did. If we rule out Cosmic for trying some actual scum hunting and not because he's the cop because he clearly isn't as he stated, then at least one of Arez, Key, Ishy, and Perfexionist has gotta be mafia, if not more than one. Thoughts?

 

Funny. You technically are in the latter half of the bandwagon too, but the mod missed putting it in the right place.

[keyholder21]

At least he was vanilla.

 

I'm thinking now that we look at Cosmic and Aemon more carefully.

 

I'd suggest Mynd as well.

[Red2111]

Nol, how come Mynd's vote isn't behind Arez's?? and why isn't AH on the VC??

I had Mynd down as voting twice

I made a mistake

when Mynd voted again I just left the vote I already had up on Razen and just erased his other vote

I usually try to be accurate with votecounts but I was half asleep when I typed out that last one

which also explains why I didn't put AH on the VC

 

could someone tell me if she was voting and I missed it?

for now I'll put her down as if she wasn't voting though

 

ah okay, i figured that but had to ask jic

[Myndrunner]

At least he was vanilla.

 

I'm thinking now that we look at Cosmic and Aemon more carefully.

 

I'd suggest Mynd as well.

 

This is a thinly veiled OMGUS. You provided zero input until I named you as one to look at, now you are panicked. Are you concerned that our cop might choose to view you tonight?

 

Need I remind everyone that I initiated the whole Razen voting in the first place? I actually UNVOTED him as the bandwagon began to build because it was building too fast, likely because of mafia players sneaking in using the deadline as an excuse. I voted with 5 minutes left to deadline to hammer the lynch, avoiding random (likely town) lynching.

 

I find the Aemon/Cosmic Panda debate interesting, but more interesting is that the debate on that stalled out.

[Red2111]

Mynd i don't see that as an OMGUS; i'd add you to that list as well.

[Myndrunner]

Mynd i don't see that as an OMGUS; i'd add you to that list as well.

Its OMGUS because Key is among those listed.

 

I never should be off anyone's scum list until either I'm dead or a confirmed finder reads me. This should be true for everyone; however, in an effort to narrow down our options and increase our odds in finding a scum, I recommend that we look at one of those four mentioned OR we sort out that Cosmic Panda vs Aemon Kristen mess.

 

Although I ultimately hammered (as did you) I was also the one who originated the lynch on Razen so its a stretch to say that I dogpiled onto the Razen lynch when I actually jumped OFF the lynch when it seemed to be building too fast. Had Razen been a mafia, I believe the mafia would have stalled the lynch, especially after the Mod's ruling about killing a non-voter.

 

I trust your instincts Red and you appear to be in your normal zone. You could be mafia, but I'm placing you in my likely town category this game. My hunches have been wrong before, but its good to have Old Skool Red back in the game!

[keyholder21]

At least he was vanilla.

 

I'm thinking now that we look at Cosmic and Aemon more carefully.

 

I'd suggest Mynd as well.

 

This is a thinly veiled OMGUS. You provided zero input until I named you as one to look at, now you are panicked. Are you concerned that our cop might choose to view you tonight?

 

Need I remind everyone that I initiated the whole Razen voting in the first place? I actually UNVOTED him as the bandwagon began to build because it was building too fast, likely because of mafia players sneaking in using the deadline as an excuse. I voted with 5 minutes left to deadline to hammer the lynch, avoiding random (likely town) lynching.

 

I find the Aemon/Cosmic Panda debate interesting, but more interesting is that the debate on that stalled out.

 

 

The cop is more than welcome to view me tonight, and you're more than welcome to discuss/dissect what I said tomorrow. If all you're doing is deciding to look into me (which btw you didn't specify me) and some other people then it would be quite silly of me to freak out about that wouldn't it?

 

I don't see how it's an OMGUS. I provided zero input? I was who you were talking back and forth with at the beginning of the game, that's how this entire thing with Razen started. It's worth looking into you because, you WERE the one who started the lynch on Razen, in addition to creating a bogus case on me and AH (which I know you freely admitted but it's still intriguing that you can pull something out of your backside and fight to make it stick). Then yesterday afternoon you were all for a Razen lynch...until you decided you weren't. Almost as if you knew he would turn townie and wanted to distance yourself from it. After all, you were the one that initiated it.

 

Panicked? Yeah, wow, omg, I am so panicking. /sarcasm The post above more reads that you are the one panicking. I merely suggested that we look at you tomorrow and you're trying to throw me under the bus right away - worried?

[keyholder21]

Gah. I didn't recheck the bottom before I posted.

 

I guess I can see how you think of it as OMGUS, but I don't think of it like that because I think you should be looked at even if I wasn't on your list.

[Myndrunner]

I have no problem being looked at either. Right now, only two parties know my alignment: the mafia and me. Its wrong to group me in with Key, Ishy, Perfex, and Axen al' Fubar because I had originated the lynch on Razen in the first place. I jumped off for two reasons:

 

1) I wanted to pursue the whole Aemon vs Cosmic gambit because even though Cosmic is not the cop and he said so himself that he is not the cop he remains 100% sure that Aemon is scum. He isn't 80% certain, or even 99% certain, he is 100% certain. Worth a look if you as me.

 

2) the lynch on Razen built way too fast for it to be a mafia lynch. The Mod made it clear that if we fail to reach a majority that a random non-voter would be lynched. This suggests that, barring inactivity, the mafia team dogpiled onto Razen to avoid the lynch going random. Had Razen been one of their own, they would have voted elsewhere and let the vote stall. I hammered with 5 minutes left to deadline, followed by Red's vote to ensure deadline was met.

 

Does this make sense so far? This is why I feel those four should be looked at exclusively tonight by our cop and tomorrow morning, one of those four should be lynched (IF we are going to ignore the whole Cosmic Panda vs Aemon Kristen deal).

 

The way I see it, dogpiling with 5 minutes left to deadline is pro-town. Dogpiling with a full day of discussion open as well as other possible trains to look at reeks of a mafia bandwagon.

 

Keyholder, Ishy, Perfexionist, and Axel al'Rosey - one of those four have got to be scum!

[bgrishinko]

I have no problem being looked at either. Right now, only two parties know my alignment: the mafia and me. Its wrong to group me in with Key, Ishy, Perfex, and Axen al' Fubar because I had originated the lynch on Razen in the first place. I jumped off for two reasons:

 

1) I wanted to pursue the whole Aemon vs Cosmic gambit because even though Cosmic is not the cop and he said so himself that he is not the cop he remains 100% sure that Aemon is scum. He isn't 80% certain, or even 99% certain, he is 100% certain. Worth a look if you as me.

 

I'm of the opinion that Cosmic might be the Lyncher needing to Lynch Aemon. Makes sense on the 100% front to me.

 

2) the lynch on Razen built way too fast for it to be a mafia lynch. The Mod made it clear that if we fail to reach a majority that a random non-voter would be lynched. This suggests that, barring inactivity, the mafia team dogpiled onto Razen to avoid the lynch going random. Had Razen been one of their own, they would have voted elsewhere and let the vote stall. I hammered with 5 minutes left to deadline, followed by Red's vote to ensure deadline was met.

 

Neh. The Mod also made the rule that the people being random killed would be Non-Voters. As such, so long as all the mafia was on a vote somewhere a random isn't such a bad tactic as hammering. It would be beneficial to not be on the town lynch, but still having a vote out there prevents them from getting killed by the Mod.

 

Does this make sense so far? This is why I feel those four should be looked at exclusively tonight by our cop and tomorrow morning, one of those four should be lynched (IF we are going to ignore the whole Cosmic Panda vs Aemon Kristen deal).

 

The way I see it, dogpiling with 5 minutes left to deadline is pro-town. Dogpiling with a full day of discussion open as well as other possible trains to look at reeks of a mafia bandwagon.

 

Keyholder, Ishy, Perfexionist, and Axel al'Rosey - one of those four have got to be scum!

 

Well, saying one of those 4 has to be scum says nothing. 13 people left, you named four of them. Yep, statistically one of them has got to be scum. Pick any random 4 and you could say the same.

[Myndrunner]

For those interested in scum-hunting, please review the following (otherwise, ignore the teal dear):

 

 

Here are the last 6 votes on Razen before deadline. Pay close attention to the time stamps both in relation to the deadline and to each other.

Unvote, Vote Razen

 

Nothing said at all, just a simple inexplicable bandwagon vote. At this time, the Cosmic/Aemon debate was still underway.

 

I think Razen or Aemon would be a good lynch for today. Either way we're going to get some insights about other players.

 

Still looking for Ishy's explanation, but we can deal with that tomorrow.

 

Vote Razen.

 

Keyholder obliges that either would be good, but ops for Razen. States that either way we would get some insight into other players. What insights did we get with Razen's lynch? The very reason I named those four to look at.

 

Unvote. Vote Razen.

 

Yes, I cased Razen and didn't vote for him. It was obvious that everyone else suss'd him already and that that was the direction the day was going. Wanted to see if applying pressure to Mynd would yield any results. Silly me. I still think his ridiculous, intentionally so, early day one back and forth with Key was a little over-the-top, but Razen's reaction to it was even more so. Just wanted to see if a competing train would give us any info, but alas. Mynd handled it well, so moving on...

 

I handled it well? Does that mean I'm not scum? I've been a mafia godfather and talked my way out of numerous lynches, but just as much if not more so, I've been the cop or doc and talked my way into them. Curious what results he was looking for, but regardless, he suddenly has a change of heart and votes Razen. Did he really case him in the first place?

 

7 hours everyone.

 

Someone is getting desperate!

 

Deadline: Unvote, vote: Razen

 

Another inexplicable bandwagon; however, this is Cosmic Panda who is 100% sure about Aemon and not our cop. I doubt a mafia player would be so forceful in stating their 100% certainty about another player being scum, only to dogpile to hide among the other votes. I take this as a townie backing off his case to keep the vote from going random.

 

Blah.. Not fun with randoms.. Srry Razen, I don't really find the arguments to lynch you "Convincing" But the deadline is comming

 

Vote Razen

 

This strikes me odd. Its as if he already knows how Razen is gonna flip. Why apologize for a vote if he might flip scum?

 

unvote

 

vote Razen

 

Let's get the majority. Still, this whole Cosmic Panda / Aemon Kristen thing needs looking into.

 

 

UNVOTE

 

VOTE: RAZEN

 

jic

 

brb with the quotes i got.

 

Both Red and myself are voting to hammer the lynch, saving us from a random non-voter.

 

Please take a moment and review this case. What are your thoughts?

[bgrishinko]

@Mynd:

 

Looking at it two ways. Reviewing, I'm also looking at Arez with squinty eyes. The timing of his vote to avoid being randomed is fair but also suspicious. You make a good point at his "pre-knowledge" of Razen's alignment. Only mafia knows it all and this could have been a slip.

 

Looking at it the other way, both you and Red would know what I mentioned before about not being on Razen's lynch would be safe to kill a remaining non-voter townie. As you've mentioned many times, you unvoted Razen. But wait! What if one of the non-voters is mafia and not around? Then piling on Razen and hammering, while not an optimal solution, saves the chance of a teammate being killed, plus you can brush it off as avoiding the randomness.

 

So... no conclusions yet. Just observations.

 

 

[Myndrunner]

@Mynd:

 

Looking at it two ways. Reviewing, I'm also looking at Arez with squinty eyes. The timing of his vote to avoid being randomed is fair but also suspicious. You make a good point at his "pre-knowledge" of Razen's alignment. Only mafia knows it all and this could have been a slip.

 

Looking at it the other way, both you and Red would know what I mentioned before about not being on Razen's lynch would be safe to kill a remaining non-voter townie. As you've mentioned many times, you unvoted Razen. But wait! What if one of the non-voters is mafia and not around? Then piling on Razen and hammering, while not an optimal solution, saves the chance of a teammate being killed, plus you can brush it off as avoiding the randomness.

 

So... no conclusions yet. Just observations.

 

That actually does make sense as well. I know I'm not mafia, which is about as convincing to everyone else as Casey Anthony's testimony. I'm pretty sure Red is on the up and up based on her play so far. Still, it stands to reason that the mafia bum-rushed the vote because they knew Razen would flip town. Perhaps we could look at the non-voters? I'm trying to narrow down our list of suspects for the next two phases, we can always look back at others.

 

I think I'm with you on Cosmic Panda being the lyncher.

[John E. Kelley]

I have to be honest, I've never played in a game with a Lyncher before. Do they have a solo-win condition? Just by lynching their target, right? In past games, is their target always scum? Always town? Or is it just random? I only ask because, while him being the lyncher could explain Cosmic's case against Aemon, does it say anything about Aemon that he is the Lyncher's target?

[bgrishinko]

I have to be honest, I've never played in a game with a Lyncher before. Do they have a solo-win condition? Just by lynching their target, right? In past games, is their target always scum? Always town? Or is it just random? I only ask because, while him being the lyncher could explain Cosmic's case against Aemon, does it say anything about Aemon that he is the Lyncher's target?

 

 

 

NOTE: If the Lynchers target is lynched at any time the game ends immediately with a Lyncher victory while all other players lose. Also note that if the Lynchers target dies they can no longer win but will remain in the game to aid whichever team suits their fancy or just generally cause whatever chaos they feel like.

 

 

Also note that in the signup thread Nolder said it was a Towns person the Lyncher would be targeting.

[John E. Kelley]

So if Cosmic is the Lyncher and Aemon is his target, ipso facto, Aemon is Town?

[John E. Kelley]

Yep, that's what the sign up thread said. The Lyncher is given a Town target.

[Myndrunner]

I have to be honest, I've never played in a game with a Lyncher before. Do they have a solo-win condition? Just by lynching their target, right? In past games, is their target always scum? Always town? Or is it just random? I only ask because, while him being the lyncher could explain Cosmic's case against Aemon, does it say anything about Aemon that he is the Lyncher's target?

 

 

So if Cosmic is the Lyncher and Aemon is his target, ipso facto, Aemon is Town?

 

This reeks of Ishmael trying to deflect attention away from the latter half of the Razen lynch, which includes him.

 

Having said that, he also makes a lot of sense. If Cosmic is the lyncher, it also makes Aemon Kristen town. It would be completely unfair to make the lyncher's target scum because then the town could never lynch all the mafia without the lyncher winning first. Is it worth it to lynch Cosmic on Day 2?

 

Also, which is more of a direct threat to the town right now? A suspected lyncher or the mafia with their night kills?

[bgrishinko]

Lyncher. Mafia can help town find him to prevent instant win. Ideal scenario is mafia NKing Lyncher tonight.

[Myndrunner]

 

NOTE: If the Lynchers target is lynched at any time the game ends immediately with a Lyncher victory while all other players lose.

 

That means the lyncher is a threat to both the town AND the mafia. If the mafia choose their target wisely tonight, perhaps they can stop the lyncher from having any chance of winning at all before Day 2.

 

The lyncher can't win if he ain't in the game anymore!

 

*cough Cosmic Panda cough*