[ADVANCED/KITCHEN SINK] The Axe or the Hammer - GAME OVER

[Netbattler11]

Ledinna, I see nothing. I'm using a different page length though (i'm only on page 10 right now), so that could have something to do with it.

[Netbattler11]

Make that page eleven.

[Leelou]

I really wish we had a deadline, I feel as if the game is starting to drag. We've been on Day 1 over a week now that has turned into WoT bickering that feels like town on town on town on town. The scummiest thing that I've seen is still Dinna's vote. I know that you explained RL and unvoted in your post, but that then feels like it was rushed.

 

What is the vote count?

[Leyrann]

I was about to agree with you Meesh, but then I got to the 2nd paragraph. I agree that you were laying into me because you were scumhunting. I poked you for the same reason. I don't think it was a fruitless conversation at all, but I think we made all our points we needed to make at each other and then started talking in circles which is where I start agreeing with Nolder that we could move on from it. As you said in the following post that you "had nothing more to say." We don't need to act like it never happened, I'm not sweeping it under the rug at all, but the reactions from other people about our quarrel are more interesting to me now than our actual quarrel.

 

Besides, not to spell it out to you, but the asute reader would know that my ask for a truce was in our best interest.

 

I disagree. In who's best interest? Town's? Because I think town is getting a ton of information, about you and Meesh both. For that matter, Nol and Soy as well. The info that I've gathered to this point is that Meesh is town, without a doubt, either that or she's the best scum-as-town player I've seen in a while. Soy I get a null tell from, but you and Nol are seriously taking it too far. It could be cornered townie syndrome but I just doubt it. Not only from your posts in this game, but to utilize a little meta here, what the hell has happened to the both of you this go-round? Neither of you have ever played this type of game, at least, in any I've been in with you two. Why the change? Just doesn't smell right to me.

 

I fully agree with this post. I think that BG would be the best lynch today, and I am already voting him.

[Leyrann]

Unofficial Vote Count:

 

Ed (2) - Amega, Key

Leelou (1) - Nolder

Ley (1) - Maw

Ledinna (6) - Nyn, Leelou, Ed, Ishy, Kae, Corrosive

Amega (1) - Spirit

Soyo (3) - Womby, Des, BG

Pandy (1) - Verb

Nolder (3) - Pandy, Turin, Soy

Meesh (1) - Hoof

BG (2) - Meesh, Ley

 

 

Not Voting: Red, Levity, Ledinna

 

Maw and Amega didn't unvote before voting, so I didn't count those.

[Blackhoof]

unvote, vote Nolder

 

I cannot take this anymore! This day has gone on long enough, and Nolder has pinged me hard by trying to sweep one argument under the rug and then getting into another.

[Leyrann]

I would say BG is a bit better at this moment, but because Nol is nearly as scummy to me (I actually think they are both scum), I will UNVOTE VOTE Nol. Also because the Ledinna case is really bad imo.

[Blackhoof]

I would say BG is a bit better at this moment, but because Nol is nearly as scummy to me (I actually think they are both scum), I will UNVOTE VOTE Nol. Also because the Ledinna case is really bad imo.

 

QFT

 

She explained her scummy vote well enough to satisfy me.

[Nolder]

heeeey new posts

from people that aren't Soy even!

that's what I like to see

 

some responses incoming I'm sure

[mmeeshal]

I could totally get behind a Nol lynch, since no one wants to lynch BG atm.

 

unvote

 

vote Nol

[Nolder]

I haven't stopped scum hunting.

I didn't say you did I?

 

I'd say that you should be called inactive if you have less than one post each RL day. Does everyone agree with me?

I feel like people should have 3-5 posts every 2 or 3 days

gotta make allowances for RL stuff but if you signed up to play you should be able to get some posts in too

more on this later I think

[Nolder]

thanks for waiting for me to catch up before bandwagoning

[John E. Kelley]

She explained her scummy vote well enough to satisfy me.

 

I disagree. Sorry RL caught up with me and nothing else at all? I don't buy it. I'm not saying lynch her, but she needs to feel the pressure to explain herself more than that. And I get that she's new, that's why I'm not calling for a lynch, just pressure. Call it a learning experience for the new player, if you will.

 

And I'm still willing to use the exact same technique with BG and Nol. I haven't come right out and said eithers actions have been scummy, just very, very different. BG says he knows what he's doing, and I can buy that, but I myself have no idea what he's doing. If he's town and this is some big town strategy, just say so and I'll move on. Call me thick if you want, but I have zero idea why your method is so different from your usual methods. And I hate meta, everyone should know this about me by now, but this is too blatant.

 

But as for my original point, Dinna has had "many" days to clarify that Nol vote. Not having done so at this point is weak, weak, weak. Vote Nol and BG if you like, but that was the scummiest action so far, bar none.

[mmeeshal]

thanks for waiting for me to catch up before bandwagoning

You're welcome. Don't think I need to....doubt anything whatsoever you can say is going to change my opinion here.

[John E. Kelley]

thanks for waiting for me to catch up before bandwagoning

 

Your play has been off to Nol, don't think I haven't noticed, but not nearly as much as BG's. Should Dinna have a MUCH better explanation soon, I would have no problem moving onto him. You would be next, however.

[mmeeshal]

She explained her scummy vote well enough to satisfy me.

 

I disagree. Sorry RL caught up with me and nothing else at all? I don't buy it. I'm not saying lynch her, but she needs to feel the pressure to explain herself more than that. And I get that she's new, that's why I'm not calling for a lynch, just pressure. Call it a learning experience for the new player, if you will.

 

And I'm still willing to use the exact same technique with BG and Nol. I haven't come right out and said eithers actions have been scummy, just very, very different. BG says he knows what he's doing, and I can buy that, but I myself have no idea what he's doing. If he's town and this is some big town strategy, just say so and I'll move on. Call me thick if you want, but I have zero idea why your method is so different from your usual methods. And I hate meta, everyone should know this about me by now, but this is too blatant.

 

But as for my original point, Dinna has had "many" days to clarify that Nol vote. Not having done so at this point is weak, weak, weak. Vote Nol and BG if you like, but that was the scummiest action so far, bar none.

I dunno...I didn't think that was the only thing she said....let me go back and pull up the quote. I feel like she did explain to some degree though. Let's see...

[mmeeshal]

I don't see how my information was false.

Let's take a look

Sir Nolder: Why, having ripped into the good Mr. Soy Boyo for voting amegakure without explicitly wishing to lynch him, did thee then park your vote on Leelou simply because it was a train?

my vote on Leelou is post #10 in this game

for those who don't want to check (aka everyone apparently) that is looooooong before I "ripped" into Soy for voting Amega which happened in from post #51 to post #62

 

additionally you're implying that I engaged Soy because Soy voted Amega without wishing to lynch him

that is incorrect

Soy himself admits he's "willing to lynch anyone" in post #57, this includes Amega

I'm willing to lynch anyone.

as for me, I detail in post #51 what I found scummy about Soys vote

"cast one out there and hope" implies two things to me

1. that you know that this is fairly weak reasoning

2. despite the weakness of your case you would actually want Amega lynched over it

 

those two things lead me to think that you therefore know Amega is not on your team because why else would you want to lynch someone over such weak reasoning?

based on what you said it looks like you're going for an "easy lynch"

obviously it has nothing to do with him not being willing to lynch Amega as we both are clearly stating the exact opposite

 

Could you please tell me how voting randomly at the start of day one is better than voting with reason at the start of day one?

when did I say that?

 

I don't understand your back-and-forth with Song, especially given that Boyo hardly raised a convincing case on ameg in the first place.

probably because the discussion I had with Song had little to nothing to do with Soy

 

Did you want to lynch Leelou?

sure

I still do

 

I didn't mean to give the impression that I've never cared about what you had to say.

In any case, I'm not too interested in the answer, but in his behaviour.

you're either lying then or you're lying now

 

So, I'm now going to explain why I voted and hope I won't get lynched.

 

By the time I posted my vote (sorry, can't use the multiquote so don't have that one here) I was in a real combination of hurry and anger myself (I'm going to play in a concert today with no practise for 2 days, noticed that a 3-page application letter for Thursday wasn't even started, and exam week is going to start soon again) and wanted to make it short.

 

As reading in that situation the underlined parts and the longness of the explanation gave me the view it was aggressive (of course combined to what his earlier posts were like)

 

Now as I'm calmer (though the concert still makes me panic) I see that the whole post was just normal. I'm sorry for that, Nold. Unvote.

[John E. Kelley]

I don't see how my information was false.

Let's take a look

Sir Nolder: Why, having ripped into the good Mr. Soy Boyo for voting amegakure without explicitly wishing to lynch him, did thee then park your vote on Leelou simply because it was a train?

my vote on Leelou is post #10 in this game

for those who don't want to check (aka everyone apparently) that is looooooong before I "ripped" into Soy for voting Amega which happened in from post #51 to post #62

 

additionally you're implying that I engaged Soy because Soy voted Amega without wishing to lynch him

that is incorrect

Soy himself admits he's "willing to lynch anyone" in post #57, this includes Amega

I'm willing to lynch anyone.

as for me, I detail in post #51 what I found scummy about Soys vote

"cast one out there and hope" implies two things to me

1. that you know that this is fairly weak reasoning

2. despite the weakness of your case you would actually want Amega lynched over it

 

those two things lead me to think that you therefore know Amega is not on your team because why else would you want to lynch someone over such weak reasoning?

based on what you said it looks like you're going for an "easy lynch"

obviously it has nothing to do with him not being willing to lynch Amega as we both are clearly stating the exact opposite

 

Could you please tell me how voting randomly at the start of day one is better than voting with reason at the start of day one?

when did I say that?

 

I don't understand your back-and-forth with Song, especially given that Boyo hardly raised a convincing case on ameg in the first place.

probably because the discussion I had with Song had little to nothing to do with Soy

 

Did you want to lynch Leelou?

sure

I still do

 

I didn't mean to give the impression that I've never cared about what you had to say.

In any case, I'm not too interested in the answer, but in his behaviour.

you're either lying then or you're lying now

 

So, I'm now going to explain why I voted and hope I won't get lynched.

 

By the time I posted my vote (sorry, can't use the multiquote so don't have that one here) I was in a real combination of hurry and anger myself (I'm going to play in a concert today with no practise for 2 days, noticed that a 3-page application letter for Thursday wasn't even started, and exam week is going to start soon again) and wanted to make it short.

 

As reading in that situation the underlined parts and the longness of the explanation gave me the view it was aggressive (of course combined to what his earlier posts were like)

 

Now as I'm calmer (though the concert still makes me panic) I see that the whole post was just normal. I'm sorry for that, Nold. Unvote.

 

The entirety of that post reads "RL was a bitch at the time" to me. And maybe it was, but I need to hear more from her to change my position.

[mmeeshal]

I guess I can see what you're saying, Ishy. I get a sense of sincerity from that post, but it wasn't really much except "sorry, misread, thought you were being aggressive, never mind!"

 

I dunno, could go either way on that, then.

 

Not enough to put a vote on her today, though--I am determined to see either Nol or BG lynched. I'd love BG, but doesn't seem like anyone else does at this point

[mmeeshal]

Ninja'd. XD

[John E. Kelley]

Well to be honest, I'd be very willing to move to BG, I think he's a much better candidate than Nol. While Nol's play has been a little off, BG's has been waaay off. And since we still apparantly have no deadline, I think we should move to the more likely scum. Just saying.

[John E. Kelley]

I guess I can see what you're saying, Ishy. I get a sense of sincerity from that post, but it wasn't really much except "sorry, misread, thought you were being aggressive, never mind!"

 

I dunno, could go either way on that, then.

 

Not enough to put a vote on her today, though--I am determined to see either Nol or BG lynched. I'd love BG, but doesn't seem like anyone else does at this point

 

And again, maybe she was sincere, but as I said, make it a learning experience for someone new.

[Nolder]

these arguments have taken a spotlight and pretty much all scumhunting has ceased

I also take issue with this statement. You're implying that the arguments themselves are not scumhunting when, in fact, I know AT LEAST that I am only discussing this BECAUSE I'm scumhunting. It's ridiculous for you to so lightly dismiss and openly refuse to read a discussion that gives the town info.... As Boyo said, what people say is what we have to go on, that's how we get information, so by that token everyone who is talking about the game is helping. Maybe initially my discussion with BG seemed pointless to you, but if you stopped reading, how would you know it continued to be so? And you haven't acknowledged that other people, when reading the entirety of the discussion, are also seeing something off with BG. Why are you ignoring that?

they may be scumhunting in a limited scope but I was more referring to the fact that everyone is sitting back and letting you guys argue

we're no longer trying to pick scum out of the crowd and that's a problem

 

I know because I know

sorry but that's how it is

I saw what you guys were saying and I can see where it was going

to me it was obviously a townie on townie spat

I don't need to waste my time reading the rest of it to know that all the jabs you're taking at each other don't matter to me

 

other people also see the same thing I do concerning you both, are you ignoring that?

 

And why are both you and BG trying to discredit this whole thing so much? Nol, you're basically saying "It's so ridiculous I'm refusing to read it, and it's shut down activity, so it's all your guys' fault if things aren't going well!" which is definitely a blatant attempt to get people to ignore the discussion and any points brought up.

I never told anyone not to read it but whatever you say

 

BG, you leapt at the chance to cool it (you did, whether it was dramatically or not--yes, I had said all I had to say at the time but I didn't agree to let it go, hence why I brought it up later when I had more thoughts about Nol's weird thing; but you were like, "yes, let's call a truce, and stop this" which meant you did not want to keep discussing it and you were taking Nol's statement as an out) and now you're ignoring the discussion and just pointing out one little thing that may have been exaggeration on Boyo's part to try and turn everyone against him so they won't listen to anything else he's said.

UMMMMMMMMMM?

I made all the points I wanted to make. Didn't do it nearly well enough, but I have nothing more to say anyway.

you're really going to twist it to make it seem like this wasn't agreement to stop arguing?

lol ok

 

On blaming the discussion for killing activity, that is not the case. Nothing we've said has discouraged other people from weighing in--that is everyone's individual choice, and it's not up to any of us to make the game extra-comfortable for each other. This is not a comfortable game, so if you're playing, I'm assuming you know what to expect and are willing/able to handle it and keep playing to the best of your abilities. Thus, I play the game and oh well if someone doesn't like my tone or what I'm saying--I'm just doing my job here.

your discussion has blown up to the point where it's overshadowing everything

it is discouraging people from "weighing in" because you know what happens when they do? you accuse them of "shoving the whole issue under the rug"

speaking of which...

 

So yeah--Nol and BG are trying really hard to shove the whole issue under the rug, and to discredit those of us who are pointing out the scumminess we see. Why would they do that if our accusations are unfounded?

Which you seem to be wanting to push under the rug as well.

if I was trying to push this aside I'd be trying to placate you

perhaps by agreeing that BG is scummy or that the discussion between/about Meesh and BG should still be taking place or apologizing for my perceived scummy behavior

I am doing none of these things and am willing to discuss these matters at length if necessary

[mmeeshal]

Heh, I've been going off of voting patterns, really. As a general principle, people can say they are willing to vote for someone all they want but that doesn't make it true.

 

Granted, I'm sure people want to avoid looking like they're vote-hopping or something....

 

But as mine was the only vote on BG when I unvoted (as far as I'm aware) and Ledinna and Nol had a significant number of votes each.... It doesn't seem like there are that many people willing to commit to a BG lynch.

 

If that makes sense.

[Nolder]

As you said in the following post that you "had nothing more to say." We don't need to act like it never happened, I'm not sweeping it under the rug at all, but the reactions from other people about our quarrel are more interesting to me now than our actual quarrel.

this

 

Besides, not to spell it out to you, but the asute reader would know that my ask for a truce was in our best interest.

this was a strange thing to say...