Gateways, the ultimate weapon?

[omaleyb]

I just realized how awesome Gateways are as a weapon and I don't think we have even scratched the surface of their potential use in battle. A channeler may not be able to throw a fireball a mile, but they can open a gateway right in front of the enemy and throw some through. Mat's Dragons could be used on multiple battlefields at the same time. What about opening a gateway parallel to the ground? Mat's Dragons firing straight down into the enemy. Your enemy sets up a shield of Air, just open a gateway on the other side and throw some lightning at them. My best idea was to have a large circle formed, then let the Trollocs charge and open a giant Gateway, 10 feet wide by 100 yards long (or longer), parallel to the ground right in front of the charge. Those in front will impale themselves on the edge. Some might jump to avoid the edge and fall into the Gateway, which I opened the other end parallel to the ground 1000 feet above the enemy force. Now their own army is falling from the sky onto their heads. Epic! Can you make a Deathgate that remains open? I have a few other ideas, but I will see if anyone else comes up with something good.

[Xcorpyo001]

I think they can use gateways/deathgates as chock points in urban fighting, like the one they'll have in Caemlyn.

If they want to protect a street, they don't need a lot of soldiers and chanellers to do that. Just create a gateway large enough(or two/several smaller ones) and no shadowspawn will be able to pass. Even normal soldiers will be unable to pass, because they will just end up god knows where, maybe even on the bottom of the ocean.

[Pinzarn]

Well, shadowspawn cannot travel through gateways as it means death for them. So your trolloc comment about letting them charge through it and fall on the other side wouldn't work for shadowspawn, but would work for darkfriends and such.

 

We have already seen the use of gateways as weapons with the deathgates and such that Rand used.

 

I too have wondered about the possiblity of using the gateway as a "distance shortener" ever since the Rand got the Dragon Scepter. You could have Archers safely in Andor fire into a gateway that is opened to the Blight on the other side.

[Xcorpyo001]

Well, shadowspawn cannot travel through gateways as it means death for them. So your trolloc comment about letting them charge through it and fall on the other side wouldn't work for shadowspawn, but would work for darkfriends and such.

 

 

Dead or alive, it doesn't matter. Their weight, falling weapons, sharp armor will be distraction enough, maybe even kill some if the height is long enough for them to increase the speed of their descent and be used as projectiles against their own troops.

I don't think I saw a channeler creating a gateway that opens in the air, high above ground, but maybe it can be done.

[Pinzarn]

I don't think I saw a channeler creating a gateway that opens in the air, high above ground, but maybe it can be done.

 

During the whole Sevanna and Cadar (Sammy) plotline, didn't he open some of the "traveling boxes" gateway above the ground and the Shiado fell through them? Am I making that up?

[Lisa Campbell]

I don't think I saw a channeler creating a gateway that opens in the air, high above ground, but maybe it can be done.

 

During the whole Sevanna and Cadar (Sammy) plotline, didn't he open some of the "traveling boxes" gateway above the ground and the Shiado fell through them? Am I making that up?

 

I think they jumped down as if from a ledge. Much like Logain's gateway to the Seafolk ship in Illian.

[omaleyb]

We have seen them open Gateways several feet above the ground, but not hundreds and never parralel to the ground.

[Xcorpyo001]

I don't think I saw a channeler creating a gateway that opens in the air, high above ground, but maybe it can be done.

 

During the whole Sevanna and Cadar (Sammy) plotline, didn't he open some of the "traveling boxes" gateway above the ground and the Shiado fell through them? Am I making that up?

 

 

I thought those were close to the ground, let's say 2,5-3m?!?(I'm not sure, though)

I was asking about a height more like a mile into the sky, or something like that

[LazyMonk]

Gateways are highly under-used and not necessarily as weapons. If fact almost all channelers are very unimaginative in using existing weaves (and I'm not even talking about creating new ones).

use a small Gateway for communication = long distance calls.

use a small Gateway hidden behind an object in a room = long distance eavesdropping.

skimming gate = Ultimate garbage disposal

 

If you can raise your target Gateway a foot above ground (like Logain did when jumping to the Sea-folk ship... the windfinder said it should be easy to figure out how to do that), you can probably raise however high you like.

high altitude Waygates = who needs raken?

low altitude Waygates = Scout a safe location for you Waygate on site instead of a safe walking distance.

[Aleator77]

How would you differentiate one empty patch of air from another in order to make one in the air? Empty air is featureless.

[omaleyb]

Good point LazyMonk. Gateways are under used in the series, but we do see Androl use a tiny one to cut a leather strap in ToM. So, we may start to see them used in different ways.

Aleator77 - I think this relies on the individuals spatial awareness and their ability to visualize a Gateway 100 feet above the ground. As it has been pointed out, the traveling boxes opened several feet above the ground. So, empty air is empty air whether it is 3 feet or 300 feet above the ground.

[LazyMonk]

How would you differentiate one empty patch of air from another in order to make one in the air? Empty air is featureless.

According to description, Channelers need very little details to place the target gate, a detailed verbal description or point on a map is enough. You can assume that what the channeler does is to form a picture of the target location in his mind. So all that needs to be changed is to visualize the target as seen from high above. Simple, isn't it?

[Durinax]

then reason we do not see things like have been mentioned before is that there is a significant fatigue cost associated with making gateways and that channellers above a threshold strength level can only create them, excepting the anomoly (androl).

 

although we have evidence that communication via gateway is starting to happen, look at how gawyn gets egwenes letter

[Goldstar]

So then Grady and Androl could potentially lead a good section of channelers to create massive deathgates, correct?

[Mats Spare Hat]

Would have thought it'd be a more efficient means of creating a cutting edge with single, or even multiple threads of Air.

 

As opposed to the effort/power use/skill it takes to create a gateway, if in the case that's what you'd be using the gateway for, the cutting edge.

 

Not to disparage the use & application of Gateways. Just sayin`, though.

[Durinax]

I would have to say the filiments of fire thing that rand used in algarins manor was much cooler than using a deathgate or anything of the sort

[Aleator77]

How would you differentiate one empty patch of air from another in order to make one in the air? Empty air is featureless.

According to description, Channelers need very little details to place the target gate, a detailed verbal description or point on a map is enough. You can assume that what the channeler does is to form a picture of the target location in his mind. So all that needs to be changed is to visualize the target as seen from high above. Simple, isn't it?

 

And how exactly are people with a middle ages tech level supposed to do that? They would have to be able to picture the landscape all around accurately from a high elevation. That is a lot harder to do than you might think. Especially for people who don't have any way of getting up there to get a look at it in the first place.

[Ratatatpat]

I Remember in KoD Rand using deathgates, claiming Shadowspawn can't survive through gates but, - correct me if I'm wrong - there must have been an instance where a Forsaken or some such sent Trollocs and other Shadowspawn through gates in previous books.

[LazyMonk]

And how exactly are people with a middle ages tech level supposed to do that? They would have to be able to picture the landscape all around accurately from a high elevation. That is a lot harder to do than you might think. Especially for people who don't have any way of getting up there to get a look at it in the first place.

I live in 2-floors house (as are most houses in my immediate area). I never seen my house from high above (like 500 meters above), but I believe that if I put my mind to it, with a little time, I could picture in my mind a fairly decent image of my home from above.

 

You don't need a view from planetary orbit, there are enough high towers in Randland that people can have an idea how things look from above. Also, there are natural formations like mountains, cliffs or even a high tree that can serve the same purpose.

All you need is a healthy imagination.

[Xcorpyo001]

I Remember in KoD Rand using deathgates, claiming Shadowspawn can't survive through gates but, - correct me if I'm wrong - there must have been an instance where a Forsaken or some such sent Trollocs and other Shadowspawn through gates in previous books.

 

They didn't. Rand&co were actually asking themselves why the Forsaken don't just bring entire legions of Trollocs anywhere on the map, since they can all Travel.

But they are forced to use the Ways, and the waygates, so it's a little slower, not to mention harder, because they have to pay tribute in blood to Machin Shin.

[Ratatatpat]

Rand cleansed saidin, what's next? The Ways?

[Ogrelin]

Why not just open a huge gateway inside the for example the blacktower and let the edges destroy walls ect, the whole thing will topple.

[FarShainMael]

And how exactly are people with a middle ages tech level supposed to do that? They would have to be able to picture the landscape all around accurately from a high elevation. That is a lot harder to do than you might think. Especially for people who don't have any way of getting up there to get a look at it in the first place.

I live in 2-floors house (as are most houses in my immediate area). I never seen my house from high above (like 500 meters above), but I believe that if I put my mind to it, with a little time, I could picture in my mind a fairly decent image of my home from above.

 

You don't need a view from planetary orbit, there are enough high towers in Randland that people can have an idea how things look from above. Also, there are natural formations like mountains, cliffs or even a high tree that can serve the same purpose.

All you need is a healthy imagination.

 

Or a raken.

 

In one-on-one encounters: how about opening a small Gateway inside your opponent's body? Instant aortic dissection!

[omaleyb]

FarShainMael - That's the ticket. How can we use Gateways as a weapon that we haven't seen before. Perfect!

 

I love the thought of Androl creating a bunch of tiny Gateways and chopping someone (one of Taim's lackeys) to pieces. That would look awesome.

 

As to why not using air to create a cutting edge instead, it takes great concentration to keep the edge honed otherwise it just becomes a club of air. I don't think the average channeler could do anything else. Gateways on the other hand could be created one after the other. I understand the fatigue factor, but I think the battle would be over that much quicker. Instead of spending all day throwing lightning and fire, spend a few hours creating Gateways. Also, you cannot throw a fireball a mile, so Gateways are a means to fight over long distances.

[omaleyb]

I think using Gateways in conjunction with Mat's Dragons is the best idea. I can just see a field in the middle of nowhere filled with groups of the things and Gateways flashing open to different Battlefields long enough for them fire and the closing again. It would also protect the Dragons for counter fire and capture.