Wild Theory about Fain

[JeffreyNemeth]

This theory has not been flushed out yet and probably has a million holes, but wanted to throw it out there for comments. So the other day I was listening to the 4th Age Pod cast and they were discussing what the last battle will be like. I was thinking about Fain and that he was traveling in the blight. The discussion of the "what if " battles and my random thoughts on Fain, I came up with the idea for a scenario of the last battle. Rand battling the Dark Lord is a given, but how. Does the DL have a body? Will he take over the Myrddraal (forgot his name, think it translates to the "hand of the shadow or something").

 

My theory is that the Dark Lord will take over Fain's body/soul for the battle. This then gives the dark lord a physical body to do battle.

 

Any thoughts, comments or suggestions are welcome.

 

Jeffrey

[PsyQuestor]

Shaidar Haran is the Myrddraal's name. IDK about your theory, I got a funny picture in my head of Fain telling the DO, MINE!

[cmsnaith]

Fain hates the DO. Moreover, Fain/Mordeth is consumed with the evil of Shadar Logoth. It has been clearly shown that the evil of SL and the DO are incompatible. That is how the Taint was cleansed. The wound in Rand's side gave him the inspiration for the cleansing. The two evils in his wound are fighting each other. I'm not sure the DO COULD take over Fain's body even if he wanted to.

[JeffWeissberg]

plus there's been a hit out on Fain by the the forces of Dark for quite some time. Obviously Fain has some role to play...

[rageofwar1978]

i have this image in my head of fain capering around after biting off rands finger screaming "MY PRESCIOUS"

[Luckers]

It's been suggested that after Rand kills the Dark One, Fain may become the next turnings Dark One. It's a theory that would have had more weight if RJ hadn't said...

 

Wotmania/Dragonmount Q&A - 9 December 2002

 

Q: Has the Padan Fain/Mordeth character been present in previous Ages, or is he unique to this particular Age?

RJ: He is unique to this particular Age. A very unique fellow, indeed. In some ways, you might say he has unwittingly side-stepped the Pattern.

 

 

So, this is something that doesn't happen every turning, so it makes it a much larger oddity if it happens in this turning.

[Xcorpyo001]

It's been suggested that after Rand kills the Dark One, Fain may become the next turnings Dark One. It's a theory that would have had more weight if RJ hadn't said...

 

Wotmania/Dragonmount Q&A - 9 December 2002

 

Q: Has the Padan Fain/Mordeth character been present in previous Ages, or is he unique to this particular Age?

RJ: He is unique to this particular Age. A very unique fellow, indeed. In some ways, you might say he has unwittingly side-stepped the Pattern.

 

 

So, this is something that doesn't happen every turning, so it makes it a much larger oddity if it happens in this turning.

 

 

I'm wondering what will happen if by chance the dagger ends up touching the DO(or HS) himself.

[rand4747]

It probably wont happen because its too much like lotr, but mordeth falls into the pit and dies and massive eruption and the end of the shadow. Well it cant quite happen like that because the pit is not the bore, but I think it will somehow be that the darkone comes into contact with fain, perhaps they do get sealed together behind the fixed prison.

[Thrasymachus]

If anything, I think that quote by RJ about Fain sidestepping the Pattern lends more credence to the idea of Fain being the next Dark One. The Dark One exists outside the Pattern, after all, and I would think the first step to existing outside the pattern would be finding some unique way to side-step it. Considering the antithetical nature of Shadar Logoth evil and Dark One evil, and Rand's stated intention to kill the Dark One once and for all, Fain will clearly have an important role to play. I can see Rand letting Fain "kill" him, Fain jumping down the bore to take on the Dark One, and Rand waking up and sealing them both in. It kind of depends on what the moral of this story is though. In the Gathering Storm, Rand learns that no matter how futile things seem, and now matter how much we screw up, we have to keep going because we'll have another chance to get things right so long as the Wheel keeps turning. It may be that the moral of the Last Battle is to not let the perfect be the enemy of the well done. Rand may have to choose between outright killing the Dark One and potentially failing, or more permanently sealing away the Dark One in a way that won't weaken. Regardless, I think that if the Dark One gets killed outright, it'll be Fain that does the killing, and if he gets sealed away more permanently, Fail will be some kind of buffer or distraction for the Dark One that allows the more permanent seal to be established.

[TreeJoe]

If I remember correctly in the 7th book, when Min sees Fain she can't discern his images. I always pictured this as lending credence to the idea that Fain is moving outside the Pattern.

 

We think of the Pattern as "time & reality" - but as it's put in the series, it's individual lives being spun out through the driving force of the universe: the One Power. If Fain has stepped out of the pattern, then his thread:

 

1. May need to be sealed away from the Pattern, like the Dark One

 

2. May not be directly touchable by the One Power anymore

 

I don't directly understand the thinking that Fain can kill the Dark One. I can see Fain distracting the Dark One, or acting as a buffer between the pattern and the Dark One, but Fain killing him?

 

As a side note to that though, we don't actually know where Fain's powers are coming from. They don't appear to be One Power related. They don't appear to be True Power related. If those are the ying/yang energies of the universe, what exactly is Fain?

[cmsnaith]

It's been suggested that after Rand kills the Dark One, Fain may become the next turnings Dark One. It's a theory that would have had more weight if RJ hadn't said...

 

Wotmania/Dragonmount Q&A - 9 December 2002

 

Q: Has the Padan Fain/Mordeth character been present in previous Ages, or is he unique to this particular Age?

RJ: He is unique to this particular Age. A very unique fellow, indeed. In some ways, you might say he has unwittingly side-stepped the Pattern.

 

 

So, this is something that doesn't happen every turning, so it makes it a much larger oddity if it happens in this turning.

 

This quote by RJ is so very interesting.

 

Here we have an element not present in any other age. Padan Fain, Mordeth. But his absence in other ages gives rise to some very important questions.

 

If Mordeth/Fain is unique to this Age, was there a Shadar Logoth in previous Ages? If the answer is still no, SL is unique to this Age, then a further question must be asked. Was there a taint on Saidin in previous turnings of the Wheel? If the answer to this is yes, then how was it cleansed in previous Ages?

 

This is important because firstly, Fain gave Rand the insight into how to cleanse the taint. Secondly, in the absence of a SL, how would the taint have been otherwise cleansed?

 

What far-reaching impacts has Fain had on the story, really? Would the taint have even been cleansed without Fain/SL? Consider this: There was an Age before the AoL whereby there were no channelers, and men ran with wolves. Prior to the major events of this story, the Aes Sedai were dying out. It is foreseeable, perhaps, that if the taint couldn't be cleansed otherwise, then it may have been the case that Rand's victory over the DO wouldn't even have involved cleansing the taint, and that the taint would have remained until all channelers died out (a continued dwindling after TG), and whereby the absence of any Bore, and the absence of any channelers could possibly eventually cleanse Saidin on its own.

 

This is all speculation of course. However, perhaps the X-factor that is Fain has already changed the Wheel forever.

 

I really don't see him becoming the next DO. Moridin is convinced you can't kill the DO. I would be inclined to agree. For all intesive purposes, the DO is eternal, and incorporeal. I believe Rand's intention to kill the DO comes from an ignorance of metaphysical and cosmological understanding. After VoG, I don't think there's any indication that he's continuing with this plan, given LTT's more comprehensive knowledge of the matter. It seems he's back to fixing the Bore, otherwise why does he need to break the seals? That was part of Herid Fel's understanding; that the seals needed to be removed if he were to create a permanent fix (clear away the rubble).

 

I don't see the DO being killed, nor do I even see that as possible. The extent of Fain's power isn't exactly clear, but I can't envision it rivaling the DO's. He's certainly a rival to the DO's minions, sure.

 

I'm more interested in how Fain is affecting the Pattern, given that he's somehow "sidestepped" it.

[Terez]

i have this image in my head of fain capering around after biting off rands finger screaming "MY PRESCIOUS"

You're not the only one. Brandon promised Fain wouldn't end up like Gollum. I have no doubt there will still be a strong parallel, but I think we can be sure that he's not going to get thrown into the Bore to neutralize the Dark One's power, and he's not going to bite off anyone's finger. (I see his Gollum parallel having something to do with Shaidar Haran.)

[ironisles]

I think Fain is going to be the key to sealing the Bore..his evil will counter and stop the DO's own brand somehow and seal him off. How that will work hey I don't know but I can have theories too.