Lan vs Mat

[Turin Turambar]

The kind that live in/near wooded areas where predators live. The staff can be used as a staff also as a prod to herd farmland animals. Then if needed it can also be used as a weapon. It seems realistic that a farmer in those circumstance would learn how to use it to defend themselves. remember that if an animal, or a bandit shows up, two rivers folk can't just call for some Queen's Guard for help.

[Aleator77]

The kind that live in/near wooded areas where predators live. The staff can be used as a staff also as a prod to herd farmland animals. Then if needed it can also be used as a weapon. It seems realistic that a farmer in those circumstance would learn how to use it to defend themselves. remember that if an animal, or a bandit shows up, two rivers folk can't just call for some Queen's Guard for help.

 

The only reference we have to that at all is Perrin thinking he could drive dogs off with a sling stone and the story about Rand saving a lamb from a wolf. You really think they're training with staves in order to protect themselves from wolves? That's why they have bows and slings. As for brigands...the Two Rivers is at the back end of forever. It's remarked several times that they hardly ever see strangers at all. The idea that they would devote a large amount of time learning weaponry in order to protect themselves from bandits is silly.

 

Mat may very well have learned some staff skills from his father. As a matter of fact, we know he did. I severely doubt it was anything near the formal training that Galad and Gawyn received though.

[Lisa Campbell]

I see the training of TR folk with weapons as a traditional competitive hobby. The had competions regularly so they did train, if not formally. Yes their main weapons were slings and bows, but if you miss a moving target such as a wolf you can use your bow as a staff (we've seen Birgitte do this defending the walls of Caemlyn) and remember wolves were attacking men in the harsh winter before the start of the series.

 

I think the staff would have been a traditional weapon competition, kind of like jousting was in our world. The Two Rivers folk just don't remember why they have these competitions. I think the survivors after Manetheran was destroyed would have created these tournaments to keep people's defenses sharp and then that was forgotten over the centuries. The old blood runs strong in the Two Rivers. Which explains why they are experts with farm weapons without formal training. In the prologue to TGS, the farmer has a staff close at hand and he lives in the Borderlands. So obviously it is a weapon of merit.

 

Mat has one with a pointy end that was power wrought, so it's not flimsy and even more effective than Lan's sword. Lan is a blademaster so they tell me but Mat has the quickest hands Thom has ever seen, add to the mix the Dark One's luck, and Mat wins hands down.

 

So there I have decided and will cast my vote now.

[Suttree]

The kind that live in/near wooded areas where predators live. The staff can be used as a staff also as a prod to herd farmland animals. Then if needed it can also be used as a weapon. It seems realistic that a farmer in those circumstance would learn how to use it to defend themselves. remember that if an animal, or a bandit shows up, two rivers folk can't just call for some Queen's Guard for help.

 

The only reference we have to that at all is Perrin thinking he could drive dogs off with a sling stone and the story about Rand saving a lamb from a wolf. You really think they're training with staves in order to protect themselves from wolves? That's why they have bows and slings. As for brigands...the Two Rivers is at the back end of forever. It's remarked several times that they hardly ever see strangers at all. The idea that they would devote a large amount of time learning weaponry in order to protect themselves from bandits is silly.

 

Mat may very well have learned some staff skills from his father. As a matter of fact, we know he did. I severely doubt it was anything near the formal training that Galad and Gawyn received though.

 

RJ took the staff as a farmers weapon from historical fact which stretches a across various cultures.

 

As for if the training would compare to a blademaster recall the story of greatest swordsman Jearom's only lose coming to a farmer. In addition Mat's da won the staff contest every year at Bel Tine. Who did he beat for the title? Tam, who was also a blademaster.

[Samborob]

Ok i would love to know why i have yet to see someone mention the fact that Mat is in no way one person or his original self trained in the two rivers. To put this bluntly have you forgotten that mat is the sum of perhaps a thousand individuals( high number I know but u get my meaning) due to the fact of his escapade into the fox/snake world and received memories of at least dozens if not hundreds of former soldiers throughout ages past and is now the sum of all that knowledge. Hell he takes on the gholam SINGLEHANDIDLY in the Towers of Midnight, likely a feat beyond almost any other character even Lan, and not only holds his own but puts the monster back a step, a godlike feat in itself. So far everyopne has been slaughtered by the gholam one on one. However, like mat said "when you want to see what a man is truly capable of you push his back into a corner to fight for his very life". When Mat's battle became truly dire and desperate against the Gholam, Mat was forced to maximize his full fighting potential, compelled by fate you could say, and actually laid a bit of smackdown on the most dangerous melee fighter in existence, one who can move fluidly without bones so to speak at speeds beyond human. So i would love to see an argument 1: against how the memories of hundreds of dead veterans matter little in a fight against lan(highly unlikely) or 2: how in any way possible could someone prove that lan would last long against a gholam alone much less get the better of the fight. Now i know its a little unfair because mat had terangreal, but still the gholam is the fastest fighter in existence hands down as it was created that way to perform assassinations in the AOL. Even with the foxhead terangreal Mat had serious issues. Saay you give these terangreal to Lan you really think he would defeat a gholam. Substantiate your point with facts if you believe so but i doubt much evidence is out there to do so. One last thing to add: why the heck are you people speaking about how the pattern would effect this fight and alter the outcomes. This whole topic is assuming a hypothetical fight not involving anything but the two men and their skills, not the pattern, not tarmon Gaidon, nothing else. Explain away

[Hadilmir]

Ok i would love to know why i have yet to see someone mention the fact that Mat is in no way one person or his original self trained in the two rivers. To put this bluntly have you forgotten that mat is the sum of perhaps a thousand individuals( high number I know but u get my meaning) due to the fact of his escapade into the fox/snake world and received memories of at least dozens if not hundreds of former soldiers throughout ages past and is now the sum of all that knowledge. Hell he takes on the gholam SINGLEHANDIDLY in the Towers of Midnight, likely a feat beyond almost any other character even Lan, and not only holds his own but puts the monster back a step, a godlike feat in itself. So far everyopne has been slaughtered by the gholam one on one. However, like mat said "when you want to see what a man is truly capable of you push his back into a corner to fight for his very life". When Mat's battle became truly dire and desperate against the Gholam, Mat was forced to maximize his full fighting potential, compelled by fate you could say, and actually laid a bit of smackdown on the most dangerous melee fighter in existence, one who can move fluidly without bones so to speak at speeds beyond human. So i would love to see an argument 1: against how the memories of hundreds of dead veterans matter little in a fight against lan(highly unlikely) or 2: how in any way possible could someone prove that lan would last long against a gholam alone much less get the better of the fight. Now i know its a little unfair because mat had terangreal, but still the gholam is the fastest fighter in existence hands down as it was created that way to perform assassinations in the AOL. Even with the foxhead terangreal Mat had serious issues. Saay you give these terangreal to Lan you really think he would defeat a gholam. Substantiate your point with facts if you believe so but i doubt much evidence is out there to do so. One last thing to add: why the heck are you people speaking about how the pattern would effect this fight and alter the outcomes. This whole topic is assuming a hypothetical fight not involving anything but the two men and their skills, not the pattern, not tarmon Gaidon, nothing else. Explain away

Let me quickly suggest you break up your posts so that they are separate paragraphs, far easier for everyone else to read that way.

 

I would have a hard time arguing any of your points, specifically because my arguments would have to be hypothetical. We don't actually know how fast the Gholam was in relation to a normal man and we've never seen Lan face a similar opponent. Hypothetical arguments are fine, but backing up your hypothetical argument with a hypothetical argument is a bit ridiculous.

 

Thanks for adding those last few sentences, I don't really get why Mat's Ta'veren nature was ever brought up at all...

[Aleator77]

The kind that live in/near wooded areas where predators live. The staff can be used as a staff also as a prod to herd farmland animals. Then if needed it can also be used as a weapon. It seems realistic that a farmer in those circumstance would learn how to use it to defend themselves. remember that if an animal, or a bandit shows up, two rivers folk can't just call for some Queen's Guard for help.

 

The only reference we have to that at all is Perrin thinking he could drive dogs off with a sling stone and the story about Rand saving a lamb from a wolf. You really think they're training with staves in order to protect themselves from wolves? That's why they have bows and slings. As for brigands...the Two Rivers is at the back end of forever. It's remarked several times that they hardly ever see strangers at all. The idea that they would devote a large amount of time learning weaponry in order to protect themselves from bandits is silly.

 

Mat may very well have learned some staff skills from his father. As a matter of fact, we know he did. I severely doubt it was anything near the formal training that Galad and Gawyn received though.

 

RJ took the staff as a farmers weapon from historical fact which stretches a across various cultures.

 

As for if the training would compare to a blademaster recall the story of greatest swordsman Jearom's only lose coming to a farmer. In addition Mat's da won the staff contest every year at Bel Tine. Who did he beat for the title? Tam, who was also a blademaster.

 

You really think that farmers are taking hours out of their day on a regular basis in order to do weapons training like an actual soldier would? There is nothing to support that in either historical context or the text. Farmers used staves because they were convenient and had multiple uses outside of fighting. We also see 2 rivers people using hammers, axes, knives, and pitchforks. Did they train with those too?

 

In fact, we KNOW they don't do weapons training for anything besides sport. Mat literally laughs at Perrin and makes fun of him for training with a weapon in the first book.

[Suttree]

The kind that live in/near wooded areas where predators live. The staff can be used as a staff also as a prod to herd farmland animals. Then if needed it can also be used as a weapon. It seems realistic that a farmer in those circumstance would learn how to use it to defend themselves. remember that if an animal, or a bandit shows up, two rivers folk can't just call for some Queen's Guard for help.

 

The only reference we have to that at all is Perrin thinking he could drive dogs off with a sling stone and the story about Rand saving a lamb from a wolf. You really think they're training with staves in order to protect themselves from wolves? That's why they have bows and slings. As for brigands...the Two Rivers is at the back end of forever. It's remarked several times that they hardly ever see strangers at all. The idea that they would devote a large amount of time learning weaponry in order to protect themselves from bandits is silly.

 

Mat may very well have learned some staff skills from his father. As a matter of fact, we know he did. I severely doubt it was anything near the formal training that Galad and Gawyn received though.

 

RJ took the staff as a farmers weapon from historical fact which stretches a across various cultures.

 

As for if the training would compare to a blademaster recall the story of greatest swordsman Jearom's only lose coming to a farmer. In addition Mat's da won the staff contest every year at Bel Tine. Who did he beat for the title? Tam, who was also a blademaster.

 

You really think that farmers are taking hours out of their day on a regular basis in order to do weapons training like an actual soldier would? There is nothing to support that in either historical context or the text. Farmers used staves because they were convenient and had multiple uses outside of fighting. We also see 2 rivers people using hammers, axes, knives, and pitchforks. Did they train with those too?

 

In fact, we KNOW they don't do weapons training for anything besides sport. Mat literally laughs at Perrin and makes fun of him for training with a weapon in the first book.

 

Don't think anyone is questioning that they have the same training regimen as professional soldiers. The point we are raising is you can't argue with results from the text. In that sense the training Mat and his father have had, while different than a soldiers it would still be extensive and ingrained into the fabric of TR society. It has been shown to be sufficient to get the job done against various blademasters(Galad, Gawyn, Jearom, Tam). In addition the staff as a weapon due to reach has a huge advantage when facing a sword.

 

Not sure if you read the original posts but I was contesting someone saying Mat probably only trained a week or two a year. With how skilled his father was it isn't a stretch to think they worked on the staff a good deal together. What is historical fact is the staff is used on a daily basis around the farm and of course with Mat, what better way to kill time when you are skipping work than training for the Bel Tine contests with the staff or bow?

[Hadilmir]

In fact, we KNOW they don't do weapons training for anything besides sport. Mat literally laughs at Perrin and makes fun of him for training with a weapon in the first book.

 

Just a note, Perrin was training with an axe, which is specifically a weapon and one unfamiliar to the Two Rivers. Mat would have trained with the staff and bow which are considered tools and traditions by his society; similar to how nobles train with swords traditionally.

[Thor]

surely farmers use axes to chop trees and hunt things?