Grolm vs. trollocs

[Luckers]

Yeah, boss. I think, even if she summoned them, she only counted on them doing what came naturally, and she would only need to draw their attention (easily done by controlling wind direction, for example).

 

To the point, the unusual Seanchan fauna was actually brought to the Seanchan continent by local AS, who used them to eradicate it from Shadowspawn. I guess we have our answer in that, don't we?

 

 

So she was able to bring five, and then a hundred, by wind direction? Not just a hundred to begin with, but five, and when that wasn't enough far more (instantly, after none have been seen the entire time they spent in that world)? Indeed that grolm are only seen when Lanfear needed them would suggest that it is not in their nature to attack men, otherwise if so many were about other attacks would have occured outside of Lanfear's control. It is not so simple as Lanfear dangling the bait--she made them come in the exact quantities she needed, at the exact time she needed.

 

And we don't have our answer from that--whatever channelers fought with the Shadow in Seanchan--if any did--simply may not know of this trick. Certainly none of the damane do--Seanchan control the grolm through training, not the power.

[yoniy0]

So she was able to bring five, and then a hundred, by wind direction?

Not necessarily directing the wind, that was just one idea. Also, I don't believe we got to see the second batch - I seem to recall having the impression that their cries might not have been 100% genuine.

 

And we don't have our answer from that

I meant, they worked against Shadowspawn in Seanchan, so apparently they're up to the task.

[Sharaman]

If wolves can kill fades and trollocs, Torms and Grolm certainly can. Draghkar are no big deal e3xcept for the mesmeric ability - that would boil down to whether it worked with Seanchan exotics.

Given outcomes in Seanchan the exotics did a good job - also Ishamael didn;t even try to trigger a Trolloc invasion ala trolloc wars. That suggests he thought it was a tough nut maybe?

Gholam are weirdness personified -- even Mat couldn't kill it.

The super Drakhounds are new apparently.

[Luckers]

Not necessarily directing the wind, that was just one idea. Also, I don't believe we got to see the second batch - I seem to recall having the impression that their cries might not have been 100% genuine.

 

 

Okay... what gave you that impression?

 

I meant, they worked against Shadowspawn in Seanchan, so apparently they're up to the task.

 

Yes, I know what you meant, which was precisely why I addressed it. "--whatever channelers fought with the Shadow in Seanchan--if any did--simply may not know of this trick. Certainly none of the damane do--Seanchan control the grolm through training, not the power."

[DemandredFO]

As for Seanchan during the Breaking and after, we don't know what kinds of Shadowspawn were there. 1000 year war gives an indication that whatever was there was able to regenerate and whatnot, or that Ishamael was involved to some extent. For example, were there worms in Seanchan, worse.

A shadowspawn question, if all of Aginor's creation machines were destroyed in the War of the Shadow, how were the T1000 darkhounds created

[yoniy0]

Okay... what gave you that impression?

Because we only hear them, and while Red keeps slipping and Loial has to dismount in order to keep up, the grolm never come near enough to see. It's just too comfortable, them coming from all sides - more than a score and probably around a hundred (though previously unseen) - herding the guys to the stone, but never quite making it close enough. What easier for 'Selene' than to make the voices where and when she likes, rather than risk attracting real grolm?

 

Yes, I know what you meant, which was precisely why I addressed it.

See, I still get the impression that you think I'm addressing whether they can be controlled by the FS, where what I mean to address is their aptitude against Shadowspawn.

[Entreri]

I believe RJ said that the Light may well achieve a draw, even without Rand.

 

I believe the quote refers to the Champion of the Light and not specially this champion (DR). We have seen that in ALL the alternate realities, the Light loses if Rand does not pick up the mantle. So therefore, without Rand, the Light will lose 100% of the time, no draw, just total annihilation. It is TG, it is win or die time as mentioned in the series.

 

Two quotes that may relate:

 

Scifi.com Chat 1 November 1998

 

Rothaar: When Rand takes Verin and the others through a portal stone in The Great Hunt, at the end of each life he hears "I have won again Lews Therin". I thought that if the Dark One won even once the wheel would be broken and therefore the Dragon would not be reborn again. How could the Dark One have won before to be able to say "again"?

RJ: There are degrees of victory. The Dark One can achieve victory by breaking free, but can also achieve lesser victories. Such as by stopping the Dragon Reborn from doing other things he was born to do. It isn't as simple as him being born to fight the Dark One. It's never simple.

 

&

 

 

Q: At one point in the story we see Ishamael talking to Rand, and telling him that they have fought countless times in the past, but this is the final time. Is there anything about his Age that makes it special?

RJ: No . . . Every Age is repeated, there is nothing that makes this Age any different from any other turnings of the Wheel. The Wheel is endless.

 

As far as we know there is nothing unique about this go round...

 

 

Wheel may have been endless, but once Shai'tan is free, he will end it. So this Age is indeed unique, it is called the LAST BATTLE and from everything we read in the books, it is do or die time. Otherwise, there would never be any need for a Champion.

 

I seen a few times where authors have contradicted themselves. Plus, I wonder who wrote this down...

[Entreri]

If wolves can kill fades and trollocs, Torms and Grolm certainly can. Draghkar are no big deal e3xcept for the mesmeric ability - that would boil down to whether it worked with Seanchan exotics.

Given outcomes in Seanchan the exotics did a good job - also Ishamael didn;t even try to trigger a Trolloc invasion ala trolloc wars. That suggests he thought it was a tough nut maybe?

Gholam are weirdness personified -- even Mat couldn't kill it.

The super Drakhounds are new apparently.

 

In tSR, 1/2 dozen Trollocs died to kill 1 Myddrraal. Generally, according to Iturlade, one of them can take out 12 men. Of course, one fearless, very talented Aiel or blademaster or blademaster level fighter can take out 1 Fade.

 

I suspect someone like Lan can take on 2 Fades at once and go through at least two dozen of them before exhaustion.

 

From the beasts we seen so far, if they were to fight each other:

 

Gholam>=T-1000 Darkhound>Worm>Myddraaal>Darkhound>Drakhdar>Trolloc

[Suttree]

I believe RJ said that the Light may well achieve a draw, even without Rand.

 

I believe the quote refers to the Champion of the Light and not specially this champion (DR). We have seen that in ALL the alternate realities, the Light loses if Rand does not pick up the mantle. So therefore, without Rand, the Light will lose 100% of the time, no draw, just total annihilation. It is TG, it is win or die time as mentioned in the series.

 

Two quotes that may relate:

 

Scifi.com Chat 1 November 1998

 

Rothaar: When Rand takes Verin and the others through a portal stone in The Great Hunt, at the end of each life he hears "I have won again Lews Therin". I thought that if the Dark One won even once the wheel would be broken and therefore the Dragon would not be reborn again. How could the Dark One have won before to be able to say "again"?

RJ: There are degrees of victory. The Dark One can achieve victory by breaking free, but can also achieve lesser victories. Such as by stopping the Dragon Reborn from doing other things he was born to do. It isn't as simple as him being born to fight the Dark One. It's never simple.

 

&

 

 

Q: At one point in the story we see Ishamael talking to Rand, and telling him that they have fought countless times in the past, but this is the final time. Is there anything about his Age that makes it special?

RJ: No . . . Every Age is repeated, there is nothing that makes this Age any different from any other turnings of the Wheel. The Wheel is endless.

 

As far as we know there is nothing unique about this go round...

 

 

Wheel may have been endless, but once Shai'tan is free, he will end it. So this Age is indeed unique, it is called the LAST BATTLE and from everything we read in the books, it is do or die time. Otherwise, there would never be any need for a Champion.

 

I seen a few times where authors have contradicted themselves. Plus, I wonder who wrote this down...

 

I mean if the quote is correct it seems pretty straight forward. RJ was asked if this is the "final time" and he said "No . . . Every Age is repeated, there is nothing that makes this Age any different from any other turnings of the Wheel."

[Entreri]

I believe RJ said that the Light may well achieve a draw, even without Rand.

 

I believe the quote refers to the Champion of the Light and not specially this champion (DR). We have seen that in ALL the alternate realities, the Light loses if Rand does not pick up the mantle. So therefore, without Rand, the Light will lose 100% of the time, no draw, just total annihilation. It is TG, it is win or die time as mentioned in the series.

 

Two quotes that may relate:

 

Scifi.com Chat 1 November 1998

 

Rothaar: When Rand takes Verin and the others through a portal stone in The Great Hunt, at the end of each life he hears "I have won again Lews Therin". I thought that if the Dark One won even once the wheel would be broken and therefore the Dragon would not be reborn again. How could the Dark One have won before to be able to say "again"?

RJ: There are degrees of victory. The Dark One can achieve victory by breaking free, but can also achieve lesser victories. Such as by stopping the Dragon Reborn from doing other things he was born to do. It isn't as simple as him being born to fight the Dark One. It's never simple.

 

&

 

 

Q: At one point in the story we see Ishamael talking to Rand, and telling him that they have fought countless times in the past, but this is the final time. Is there anything about his Age that makes it special?

RJ: No . . . Every Age is repeated, there is nothing that makes this Age any different from any other turnings of the Wheel. The Wheel is endless.

 

As far as we know there is nothing unique about this go round...

 

 

Wheel may have been endless, but once Shai'tan is free, he will end it. So this Age is indeed unique, it is called the LAST BATTLE and from everything we read in the books, it is do or die time. Otherwise, there would never be any need for a Champion.

 

I seen a few times where authors have contradicted themselves. Plus, I wonder who wrote this down...

 

I mean if the quote is correct it seems pretty straight forward. RJ was asked if this is the "final time" and he said "No . . . Every Age is repeated, there is nothing that makes this Age any different from any other turnings of the Wheel."

 

 

I suppose assuming the DR wins every TG...the Wheel continues, but Shai'tan only has to win once, and it is all over. The DR almost ended the WoT in book 13...

 

So the DR only needs to lose TG once, it is the end. That should be readily to apparent to anyone...unless...

 

I suppose it is possible (anything is possible in fantasy, that goes without saying), that Shai'tan will turn to the Light and save the Wheel...The old saying is that anybody (I suppose anything in terms of Shai'tan) cannot be so far gone/Shadow that it cannot turn to the Light. *Sarcasm*

 

 

 

 

I think from reading a lot of what RJ has said, for the large part, "don't trust what the Forsaken are saying" motto.

 

You notice, once he heard Ishamael, there is a long pause before he answers, unlike the previous quote from him. If the quote is indeed accurate, he probably misinterpreted what was being asked.

 

If the DO breaks free, I doubt anything short of the Creator can stop it, even the CK would be too weak. And the Creator never interferes. Thus the WOT is history.

[Suttree]

I believe RJ said that the Light may well achieve a draw, even without Rand.

 

I believe the quote refers to the Champion of the Light and not specially this champion (DR). We have seen that in ALL the alternate realities, the Light loses if Rand does not pick up the mantle. So therefore, without Rand, the Light will lose 100% of the time, no draw, just total annihilation. It is TG, it is win or die time as mentioned in the series.

 

Two quotes that may relate:

 

Scifi.com Chat 1 November 1998

 

Rothaar: When Rand takes Verin and the others through a portal stone in The Great Hunt, at the end of each life he hears "I have won again Lews Therin". I thought that if the Dark One won even once the wheel would be broken and therefore the Dragon would not be reborn again. How could the Dark One have won before to be able to say "again"?

RJ: There are degrees of victory. The Dark One can achieve victory by breaking free, but can also achieve lesser victories. Such as by stopping the Dragon Reborn from doing other things he was born to do. It isn't as simple as him being born to fight the Dark One. It's never simple.

 

&

 

 

Q: At one point in the story we see Ishamael talking to Rand, and telling him that they have fought countless times in the past, but this is the final time. Is there anything about his Age that makes it special?

RJ: No . . . Every Age is repeated, there is nothing that makes this Age any different from any other turnings of the Wheel. The Wheel is endless.

 

As far as we know there is nothing unique about this go round...

 

 

Wheel may have been endless, but once Shai'tan is free, he will end it. So this Age is indeed unique, it is called the LAST BATTLE and from everything we read in the books, it is do or die time. Otherwise, there would never be any need for a Champion.

 

I seen a few times where authors have contradicted themselves. Plus, I wonder who wrote this down...

 

I mean if the quote is correct it seems pretty straight forward. RJ was asked if this is the "final time" and he said "No . . . Every Age is repeated, there is nothing that makes this Age any different from any other turnings of the Wheel."

 

 

I suppose assuming the DR wins every TG...the Wheel continues, but Shai'tan only has to win once, and it is all over. The DR almost ended the WoT in book 13...

 

But we know this isn't true, there are "degrees" of victory. It says the DO can achieve "lesser" victories by stopping the DR from doing things he was born to do. RJ mentions the DR specifically in the first quote and in the second says there is nothing unique about this age. The only ground your argument has to stand on is if RJ was misquoted and the answer is fairly straightforward, it would be hard to get something that straight up wrong.

[Entreri]

I believe RJ said that the Light may well achieve a draw, even without Rand.

 

I believe the quote refers to the Champion of the Light and not specially this champion (DR). We have seen that in ALL the alternate realities, the Light loses if Rand does not pick up the mantle. So therefore, without Rand, the Light will lose 100% of the time, no draw, just total annihilation. It is TG, it is win or die time as mentioned in the series.

 

Two quotes that may relate:

 

Scifi.com Chat 1 November 1998

 

Rothaar: When Rand takes Verin and the others through a portal stone in The Great Hunt, at the end of each life he hears "I have won again Lews Therin". I thought that if the Dark One won even once the wheel would be broken and therefore the Dragon would not be reborn again. How could the Dark One have won before to be able to say "again"?

RJ: There are degrees of victory. The Dark One can achieve victory by breaking free, but can also achieve lesser victories. Such as by stopping the Dragon Reborn from doing other things he was born to do. It isn't as simple as him being born to fight the Dark One. It's never simple.

 

&

 

 

Q: At one point in the story we see Ishamael talking to Rand, and telling him that they have fought countless times in the past, but this is the final time. Is there anything about his Age that makes it special?

RJ: No . . . Every Age is repeated, there is nothing that makes this Age any different from any other turnings of the Wheel. The Wheel is endless.

 

As far as we know there is nothing unique about this go round...

 

 

Wheel may have been endless, but once Shai'tan is free, he will end it. So this Age is indeed unique, it is called the LAST BATTLE and from everything we read in the books, it is do or die time. Otherwise, there would never be any need for a Champion.

 

I seen a few times where authors have contradicted themselves. Plus, I wonder who wrote this down...

 

I mean if the quote is correct it seems pretty straight forward. RJ was asked if this is the "final time" and he said "No . . . Every Age is repeated, there is nothing that makes this Age any different from any other turnings of the Wheel."

 

 

I suppose assuming the DR wins every TG...the Wheel continues, but Shai'tan only has to win once, and it is all over. The DR almost ended the WoT in book 13...

 

But we know this isn't true, there are "degrees" of victory. It says the DO can achieve "lesser" victories by stopping the DR from doing things he was born to do. RJ mentions the DR specifically in the first quote and in the second says there is nothing unique about this age. The only ground your argument has to stand on is if RJ was misquoted and the answer is fairly straightforward, it would be hard to get something that straight up wrong.

 

There is no doubt that Shai'tan and his minions have always been successful at stopping the DR from doing something...there must be a multitude of things he was supposed to do. Unknown prophecies, tasks too small to be of note etc.

 

7 Ages, this is the only Age where the TG occurs. Everything starts again (7 Ages), TG occurs once more etc and etc. However, if the DR loses of of those TG's (thus Shai'tan is free from its prison completely), it is all over.

 

Likely RJ is misquoted otherwise RJ is wrong. The second quote goes against everything said by Light character X,Y,Z, Ishamael, and the prophecies themselves. Authors are not infallible.

 

Just one of many examples, from KOD, Rand: "So the Pattern truly was loosening. That meant the Dark One was touching the world more than he had since the War of the Shadow. If it loosened too much before Tarmon Gai'don, the Age Lace might unravel. An end of time, reality and creation".

 

Rand himself of course could have decided to end everything in book 13, using the CK, as noted by him and the Wolves. Enough balefire, the Pattern is destroyed.

 

I do not want to waste any more of my time on this, ask Brandon if you are still unsure. I know you like to keep going endlessly, but even you should see the logic I pointed out.

[Suttree]

There is no doubt that Shai'tan and his minions have always been successful at stopping the DR from doing something...there must be a multitude of things he was supposed to do. Unknown prophecies, tasks too small to be of note etc.

 

7 Ages, this is the only Age where the TG occurs. Everything starts again (7 Ages), TG occurs once more etc and etc. However, if the DR loses of of those TG's (thus Shai'tan is free from its prison completely), it is all over.

 

Likely RJ is misquoted otherwise RJ is wrong. The second quote goes against everything said by Light character X,Y,Z, Ishamael, and the prophecies themselves. Authors are not infallible.

 

Just one of many examples, from KOD, Rand: "So the Pattern truly was loosening. That meant the Dark One was touching the world more than he had since the War of the Shadow. If it loosened too much before Tarmon Gai'don, the Age Lace might unravel. An end of time, reality and creation".

 

Rand himself of course could have decided to end everything in book 13, using the CK, as noted by him and the Wolves. Enough balefire, the Pattern is destroyed.

 

I do not want to waste any more of my time on this, ask Brandon if you are still unsure. I know you like to keep going endlessly, but even you should see the logic I pointed out.

 

LOL logic like:

 

Likely RJ is misquoted otherwise RJ is wrong.

 

I've always said you have one hell of an imagination Entreri, thinking you know better than the Creator has to take the prize though. When faced with a direct quote clearly stating the opposite of your point you say RJ is wrong. CLASSIC. Might have to make that my sig...with full credit of course.

 

As for your example in KoD

"So the Pattern truly was loosening. That meant the Dark One was touching the world more than he had since the War of the Shadow. If it loosened too much before Tarmon Gai'don, the Age Lace might unravel. An end of time, reality and creation".

 

This proves what RJ said, the pattern is unraveling as it was during the War of Shadow. If it had unraveled enough or had the DO won an ultimate victory back then it would have been the "end of time". In fact it most likely unraveled more back then than in the present because we know the DO touched the world with greater strength and for a longer period. You do realize your "logic" supports this age not being unique as like you mention above the 7th age has come before. There have been other CoL and Last Battles. Of course the people in that current age think it is "do or die" and their age is different, but we have a broader view and know that simply isn't true.

 

There is nothing unique about this age, the 7th has age been repeated throughout history, time is a circle. We all understand if the DO wins an ultimate victory it is all over but there are clearly degrees of victory.

[ironisles]

I believe RJ said that the Light may well achieve a draw, even without Rand.

 

I believe the quote refers to the Champion of the Light and not specially this champion (DR). We have seen that in ALL the alternate realities, the Light loses if Rand does not pick up the mantle. So therefore, without Rand, the Light will lose 100% of the time, no draw, just total annihilation. It is TG, it is win or die time as mentioned in the series.

 

Two quotes that may relate:

 

Scifi.com Chat 1 November 1998

 

Rothaar: When Rand takes Verin and the others through a portal stone in The Great Hunt, at the end of each life he hears "I have won again Lews Therin". I thought that if the Dark One won even once the wheel would be broken and therefore the Dragon would not be reborn again. How could the Dark One have won before to be able to say "again"?

RJ: There are degrees of victory. The Dark One can achieve victory by breaking free, but can also achieve lesser victories. Such as by stopping the Dragon Reborn from doing other things he was born to do. It isn't as simple as him being born to fight the Dark One. It's never simple.

 

&

 

 

Q: At one point in the story we see Ishamael talking to Rand, and telling him that they have fought countless times in the past, but this is the final time. Is there anything about his Age that makes it special?

RJ: No . . . Every Age is repeated, there is nothing that makes this Age any different from any other turnings of the Wheel. The Wheel is endless.

 

As far as we know there is nothing unique about this go round...

 

 

Wheel may have been endless, but once Shai'tan is free, he will end it. So this Age is indeed unique, it is called the LAST BATTLE and from everything we read in the books, it is do or die time. Otherwise, there would never be any need for a Champion.

 

I seen a few times where authors have contradicted themselves. Plus, I wonder who wrote this down...

 

I mean if the quote is correct it seems pretty straight forward. RJ was asked if this is the "final time" and he said "No . . . Every Age is repeated, there is nothing that makes this Age any different from any other turnings of the Wheel."

 

 

I suppose assuming the DR wins every TG...the Wheel continues, but Shai'tan only has to win once, and it is all over. The DR almost ended the WoT in book 13...

 

But we know this isn't true, there are "degrees" of victory. It says the DO can achieve "lesser" victories by stopping the DR from doing things he was born to do. RJ mentions the DR specifically in the first quote and in the second says there is nothing unique about this age. The only ground your argument has to stand on is if RJ was misquoted and the answer is fairly straightforward, it would be hard to get something that straight up wrong.

 

There is no doubt that Shai'tan and his minions have always been successful at stopping the DR from doing something...there must be a multitude of things he was supposed to do. Unknown prophecies, tasks too small to be of note etc.

 

7 Ages, this is the only Age where the TG occurs. Everything starts again (7 Ages), TG occurs once more etc and etc. However, if the DR loses of of those TG's (thus Shai'tan is free from its prison completely), it is all over.

 

Likely RJ is misquoted otherwise RJ is wrong. The second quote goes against everything said by Light character X,Y,Z, Ishamael, and the prophecies themselves. Authors are not infallible.

 

Just one of many examples, from KOD, Rand: "So the Pattern truly was loosening. That meant the Dark One was touching the world more than he had since the War of the Shadow. If it loosened too much before Tarmon Gai'don, the Age Lace might unravel. An end of time, reality and creation".

 

Rand himself of course could have decided to end everything in book 13, using the CK, as noted by him and the Wolves. Enough balefire, the Pattern is destroyed.

 

I do not want to waste any more of my time on this, ask Brandon if you are still unsure. I know you like to keep going endlessly, but even you should see the logic I pointed out.

 

LOL logic like:

 

Likely RJ is misquoted otherwise RJ is wrong.

 

I've always said you have one hell of an imagination Entreri, thinking you know better than the Creator has to take the prize though. When faced with a direct quote clearly stating the opposite of your point you say RJ is wrong. CLASSIC. Might have to make that my sig...with full credit of course.

 

 

Alright folks lets steer back to the original topic shall we?

[Entreri]

"There is nothing unique about this age, the 7th has age been repeated throughout history, time is a circle. We all understand if the DO wins an ultimate victory it is all over but there are clearly degrees of victory."

 

This Age is indeed special because DO can achieve ulimate victory only in this Age, that is why it is called TG. You took a while, but at least you finally understand. It wasn't that hard was it?

 

 

"I've always said you have one hell of an imagination Entreri, thinking you know better than the Creator has to take the prize though. When faced with a direct quote clearly stating the opposite of your point you say RJ is wrong. CLASSIC. Might have to make that my sig...with full credit of course"

 

I do find it amusing that you have such child like faith.

 

I think is more likely he is missquoted then RJ is wrong, however, if we were to go through every single 'quote' from him, there are probably at least couple of contradictions.

 

Grey matter is there to be utilized kid.

[Suttree]

This Age is indeed special because DO can achieve ulimate victory only in this Age, that is why it is called TG. You took a while, but at least you finally understand. It wasn't that hard was it?

 

The same as in every other 7th age that has passed. Hence nothing unique about this one.

 

I think is more likely he is missquoted then RJ is wrong, however, if we were to go through every single 'quote' from him, there are probably at least couple of contradictions.

 

When authors get things wrong it is usually concerning eye color, or losing track of where a minor character is. He would not get something as important as this wrong. If you can find in any interview a quote that contradicts the one I provided please do so.

 

As for the misquote maybe someone else could chime in but I have never heard of issues with the Marcon report. The statement is unambiguous and very straightforward. It's actually pretty pathetic, at least try to prove your theory with textual evidence or quotes instead of just claiming to know better than RJ.

[Entreri]

This Age is indeed special because DO can achieve ulimate victory only in this Age, that is why it is called TG. You took a while, but at least you finally understand. It wasn't that hard was it?

 

The same as in every other 7th age that has passed. Hence nothing unique about this one.

 

I think is more likely he is missquoted then RJ is wrong, however, if we were to go through every single 'quote' from him, there are probably at least couple of contradictions.

 

When authors get things wrong it is usually concerning eye color, or losing track of where a minor character is. He would not get something as important as this wrong. If you can find in any interview a quote that contradicts the one I provided please do so.

 

As for the misquote maybe someone else could chime in but I have never heard of issues with the Marcon report. The statement is unambiguous and very straightforward. It's actually pretty pathetic, at least try to prove your theory with textual evidence or quotes instead of just claiming to know better than RJ.

 

Since you are so inquisitive, work that mind, get the cobwebs out, start looking at what RJ said to find contradictions. There are bound to be a few.

 

I already provided textual evidence (see Rand's quote), as you well know there are dozen's of quotes by various characters. This is emphasized throughout the entire series without any contradiction, TG, win or die.

 

If you can find anything to contradict the fact the TG is indeed win or die time from the books, quote it, otherwise there isn't anything else to discuss.

[Suttree]

 

I already provided textual evidence (see Rand's quote), as you well know there are dozen's of quotes by various characters. This is emphasized throughout the entire series without any contradiction, TG, win or die.

 

If you can find anything to contradict the fact the TG is indeed win or die time from the books, quote it, otherwise there isn't anything else to discuss.

 

You mean the quote I proved wrong a number of posts back?

 

The funny thing with you is no how many time people flat out prove you wrong with direct quotes you just keep repeating the same thing over and over as if you think that saying it one more time will make it true. Yes, yes we know...you have it right and RJ has it wrong.

[Entreri]

 

I already provided textual evidence (see Rand's quote), as you well know there are dozen's of quotes by various characters. This is emphasized throughout the entire series without any contradiction, TG, win or die.

 

If you can find anything to contradict the fact the TG is indeed win or die time from the books, quote it, otherwise there isn't anything else to discuss.

 

You mean the quote I proved wrong a number of posts back?

 

The funny thing with you is no how many time people flat out prove you wrong with direct quotes you just keep repeating the same thing over and over as if you think that saying it one more time will make it true. Yes, yes we know...you have it right and RJ has it wrong.

 

I see, you don't have anything. Not surprising.

[Suttree]

 

I already provided textual evidence (see Rand's quote), as you well know there are dozen's of quotes by various characters. This is emphasized throughout the entire series without any contradiction, TG, win or die.

 

If you can find anything to contradict the fact the TG is indeed win or die time from the books, quote it, otherwise there isn't anything else to discuss.

 

You mean the quote I proved wrong a number of posts back?

 

The funny thing with you is no how many time people flat out prove you wrong with direct quotes you just keep repeating the same thing over and over as if you think that saying it one more time will make it true. Yes, yes we know...you have it right and RJ has it wrong.

 

I see, you don't have anything. Not surprising.

 

LOL do you understand how threads work. You made a false claim which was proved wrong with a direct quote from the author. It is up to you to provide evidence proving what you say is true...

[Entreri]

 

I already provided textual evidence (see Rand's quote), as you well know there are dozen's of quotes by various characters. This is emphasized throughout the entire series without any contradiction, TG, win or die.

 

If you can find anything to contradict the fact the TG is indeed win or die time from the books, quote it, otherwise there isn't anything else to discuss.

 

You mean the quote I proved wrong a number of posts back?

 

The funny thing with you is no how many time people flat out prove you wrong with direct quotes you just keep repeating the same thing over and over as if you think that saying it one more time will make it true. Yes, yes we know...you have it right and RJ has it wrong.

 

I see, you don't have anything. Not surprising.

 

LOL do you understand how threads work. You made a false claim which was proved wrong with a direct quote from the author. It is up to you to provide evidence proving what you say is true...

 

I already provided evidence directly from the books which contradicts a supposed quote from the author. Now you know how it works, provide evidence from the books which contradicts my evidence otherwise this discussion is over. This is not rocket science.

 

Until you can provide such evidence, I have nothing else to say.

 

Come now, get cracking.

[Suttree]

 

I already provided textual evidence (see Rand's quote), as you well know there are dozen's of quotes by various characters. This is emphasized throughout the entire series without any contradiction, TG, win or die.

 

If you can find anything to contradict the fact the TG is indeed win or die time from the books, quote it, otherwise there isn't anything else to discuss.

 

You mean the quote I proved wrong a number of posts back?

 

The funny thing with you is no how many time people flat out prove you wrong with direct quotes you just keep repeating the same thing over and over as if you think that saying it one more time will make it true. Yes, yes we know...you have it right and RJ has it wrong.

 

I see, you don't have anything. Not surprising.

 

LOL do you understand how threads work. You made a false claim which was proved wrong with a direct quote from the author. It is up to you to provide evidence proving what you say is true...

 

I already provided evidence directly from the books which contradicts a supposed quote from the author. Now you know how it works, provide evidence from the books which contradicts my evidence otherwise this discussion is over. This is not rocket science.

 

Until you can provide such evidence, I have nothing else to say.

 

Come now, get cracking.

 

You provided one quote that was shot down a number of posts ago:

 

As for your example in KoD

 

Quote

"So the Pattern truly was loosening. That meant the Dark One was touching the world more than he had since the War of the Shadow. If it loosened too much before Tarmon Gai'don, the Age Lace might unravel. An end of time, reality and creation".

 

 

This proves what RJ said, the pattern is unraveling as it was during the War of Shadow. If it had unraveled enough or had the DO won an ultimate victory back then it would have been the "end of time". In fact it most likely unraveled more back then than in the present because we know the DO touched the world with greater strength and for a longer period. You do realize your "logic" supports this age not being unique as like you mention above the 7th age has come before. There have been other CoL and Last Battles. Of course the people in that current age think it is "do or die" and their age is different, but we have a broader view and know that simply isn't true.

 

In addition we have clear cut quotes that show how wrong your original point was. Why provide anthing else when we already have all the info we need. Any more would be redundant.

Scifi.com Chat 1 November 1998

 

Rothaar: When Rand takes Verin and the others through a portal stone in The Great Hunt, at the end of each life he hears "I have won again Lews Therin". I thought that if the Dark One won even once the wheel would be broken and therefore the Dragon would not be reborn again. How could the Dark One have won before to be able to say "again"?

RJ: There are degrees of victory. The Dark One can achieve victory by breaking free, but can also achieve lesser victories. Such as by stopping the Dragon Reborn from doing other things he was born to do. It isn't as simple as him being born to fight the Dark One. It's never simple.

 

 

&

 

 

Q: At one point in the story we see Ishamael talking to Rand, and telling him that they have fought countless times in the past, but this is the final time. Is there anything about his Age that makes it special?

RJ: No . . . Every Age is repeated, there is nothing that makes this Age any different from any other turnings of the Wheel. The Wheel is endless.

 

& another

 

RJ: Given that time is cyclic, you must assume that there is a time when the prison that holds the Dark One is whole and unbroken. There is a time when a hole is drilled into that prison and it is thus open to that degree. And there is a time when the opening has been patched in a makeshift manner. But following this line, the cyclic nature of time means that we have at some time in the future inevitably a whole and unbroken prison again. Unless, of course, the Dark One breaks free, in which case all bets are off—kick over the table and run for the window.

 

Think about it...Rand wins, the DO is sealed away and the prison is unbroken and whole again. For Lanfear to be able to drill the bore it has to be whole hence there have been other Champions and Last Battles to make it such. That is why "This is a game you have to win every time. Or rather, that you can only lose once--you can stay in if you get a draw. Think of a tournament with single elimination. If you lose once, that's it."

 

You're right it's not rocket science, not sure why you insist on making it so difficult.

[Charlz Guybon]

Perrin felled a Darkhound with two arrows. Nothing that a grolm can't accomplish. But I agree that those Seanchan animals won't win the war against the Shadow, if that's what you're getting at.

The Grolm would die after the first bite it gave the Darkhound because of the poisonous blood. The best a Grolm could get is a draw, and that depends on a fatal first strike.

[Luckers]

Enough squabbling, both of you. This topic is about Trollocs and Grolm, get back to that.

[yoniy0]

The Grolm would die after the first bite it gave the Darkhound because of the poisonous blood. The best a Grolm could get is a draw, and that depends on a fatal first strike.

Yes, though I don't think the poison acts as fast as you make it sound. Regardless, you're correct. A single grolm can't hope to kill a Darkhound and get away with it.

 

This topic is about Trollocs and Grolm

So, boss, did you catch my latest answer regarding the 'imaginary' grolm? What do you think?