Elayne,Nynaeve,Aviendha and Mat

[ironisles]

I am almost finished with LoC and once again I am just furious with how these three women treat Matt. That Elayne seems to think she has a right to bother with his medallion .. wow how arrogant can you get? Just all three of them being self righteous witches just makes me boil heh.

[randsc]

They improve.

 

Well, two of them, anyway.

 

Well, one, really...

[Kadere]

By custom all ter'angreal are property of Aes Sedai. All Elayne wants to do is examine his medallion, not take it, not keep it, just examine it, and by her position as an Aes Sedai she has every right to demand that. And since it's an important plot point that she DOES examine his medallion, it's a good thing she does.

[ironisles]

By custom all ter'angreal are property of Aes Sedai. All Elayne wants to do is examine his medallion, not take it, not keep it, just examine it, and by her position as an Aes Sedai she has every right to demand that. And since it's an important plot point that she DOES examine his medallion, it's a good thing she does.

 

Maybe she shouldn't demand he hand it over then?

[randsc]

But didn't you read what Kadere said? By Aes Sedai custom, all ter'angreal are property of the Aes Sedai. So naturally, the witches "have every right" to demand that he turn over a piece of his property, not even known to be ter'angreal. Or something. Typical Aes Sedai "logic."

 

If all ter'angreal are in fact the property of the Aes Sedai, someone forgot to tell:

 

1. The Tairens;

2. The Aiel;

3. The Seanchan.

[Kadere]

Perhaps. But she works out a plan with him to examine it each night and return it each day, and Mat acts rather stubborn about not wanting to share. Over the course of the next book Elayne and Mat learn how to work with each other much better. Elayne's not exactly used to working with someone like Mat, and vis versa.

[randsc]

Mat acts rather stubborn about holding on to the one thing that has saved his life on at least two prior occasions? The devil you say!

[Kadere]

Mat acts rather stubborn about holding on to the one thing that has saved his life on at least two prior occasions? The devil you say!

 

That's not what I say. I said he stubbornly doesn't share it. Since he's under no danger at all on the road to Ebou Dar, it's not likely to save his life. Elayne just wants it during the night while they're not under attack.

[Suttree]

Mat acts rather stubborn about holding on to the one thing that has saved his life on at least two prior occasions? The devil you say!

 

That's not what I say. I said he stubbornly doesn't share it. Since he's under no danger at all on the road to Ebou Dar, it's not likely to save his life. Elayne just wants it during the night while they're not under attack.

 

Mat doesn't have the greatest view of AS at this point and has no reason to think Elayne won't simply keep it. Not to mention the shadow has been coming out of the woodwork to attack him many times, including after camp has been set for the night so I really don't understand your point.

[buckeyebull64]

Kadere, I think that might feel to Mat a lot like asking a police officer to hand his gun over for a time each day. It just wouldn't sit right, no matter how reasonable.

[ironisles]

It just rankles me that even though they are competent, these women roll their eyes at Mat wanting to watch after them,

then complain when he actually does keep them from getting killed. None of them could have stopped a gholam. Only Mat's medallion scared the thing off.

[Suttree]

It just rankles me that even though they are competent, these women roll their eyes at Mat wanting to watch after them,

then complain when he actually does keep them from getting killed. None of them could have stopped a gholam. Only Mat's medallion scared the thing off.

 

Did they all complain after Mat stopped the Gholam in Ebou Dar?

[ironisles]

Well to be honest...I might be thinking of one of the other times he saved their bacon..just finished LoC and going to start AcoS tomorrow..I might be wrong heh.

[Leyrann]

Do you mean the Stone of Tear (TDR)? That were Egwene, Nynaeve and Elayne. I can't think of any time Mat saved Aviendha, except the from the Gholam, but that was just in the fight.

 

Still need to reread that part. I only read it one time. Some parts I've read five or more times, because my rereads are just to pick a book, then start reading on a random place. And I don't have all books.

[ShenAnCalhar]

The thanks he got for the Gholam was to be used as a pawn in the Sea Folk negotiations. Thanks ladies!

 

Also, the whole all ter'angreal belonging to the White Tower is such a BS writ. That would be like Shienar declaring all swords belong to them.

[Leyrann]

The thanks he got for the Gholam was to be used as a pawn in the Sea Folk negotiations. Thanks ladies!

 

Also, the whole all ter'angreal belonging to the White Tower is such a BS writ. That would be like Shienar declaring all swords belong to them.

 

It is not a BS writ. In TFoH, Moiraine decides to bring the Rhuidean ter'angreal to the WT, because Moiraine thinks they belong to the WT (is it even a Tower Law? I should check WoT wikia for that). That's no BS writing.

[Suttree]

Also, the whole all ter'angreal belonging to the White Tower is such a BS writ. That would be like Shienar declaring all swords belong to them.

 

How so when people in every nation know how to use swords?

 

At this point in the story Avi hasn't shown her ability and the AS are the only ones with a history of dealing with objects of power. Would you just have them laying around where anyone could trigger something that could be life threatening or cause mass damage?

[capuga]

Also, the whole all ter'angreal belonging to the White Tower is such a BS writ. That would be like Shienar declaring all swords belong to them.

 

How so when people in every nation know how to use swords?

 

At this point in the story Avi hasn't shown her ability and the AS are the only ones with a history of dealing with objects of power. Would you just have them laying around where anyone could trigger something that could be life threatening or cause mass damage?

 

Safety aside, do they even have the authority to make such a law? They only actively rule one city-state. They have political influence pretty much everywhere, but they don't have any actual authority to make laws in any nation outside of Tar Valon. So I'm not sure why they believe they should be allowed to enforce their rule on ter-angreal upon the entire known world. Sure ter-angreal might be safer under the guardianship of AS, but as to having a lawful right to own them all? I don't see how that could possibly be true.

[randsc]

Also, the whole all ter'angreal belonging to the White Tower is such a BS writ. That would be like Shienar declaring all swords belong to them.

 

How so when people in every nation know how to use swords?

 

At this point in the story Avi hasn't shown her ability and the AS are the only ones with a history of dealing with objects of power. Would you just have them laying around where anyone could trigger something that could be life threatening or cause mass damage?

 

Safety aside, do they even have the authority to make such a law? They only actively rule one city-state. They have political influence pretty much everywhere, but they don't have any actual authority to make laws in any nation outside of Tar Valon. So I'm not sure why they believe they should be allowed to enforce their rule on ter-angreal upon the entire known world. Sure ter-angreal might be safer under the guardianship of AS, but as to having a lawful right to own them all? I don't see how that could possibly be true.

 

^ This is right. Also, it is simply not true that "the AS are the only ones with a history of dealing with objects of power." The Tairens and Aiel both have extensive experience in dealing with them. And yes, keeping them locked up or isolated counts as "dealing with objects of power."

 

It is also a bit disingenuous to attempt to shift the argument from Mat retaining his own property to arguing that the alternative is people just leaving ter'angreal "laying around."

[Suttree]

Also, the whole all ter'angreal belonging to the White Tower is such a BS writ. That would be like Shienar declaring all swords belong to them.

 

How so when people in every nation know how to use swords?

 

At this point in the story Avi hasn't shown her ability and the AS are the only ones with a history of dealing with objects of power. Would you just have them laying around where anyone could trigger something that could be life threatening or cause mass damage?

 

Safety aside, do they even have the authority to make such a law? They only actively rule one city-state. They have political influence pretty much everywhere, but they don't have any actual authority to make laws in any nation outside of Tar Valon. So I'm not sure why they believe they should be allowed to enforce their rule on ter-angreal upon the entire known world. Sure ter-angreal might be safer under the guardianship of AS, but as to having a lawful right to own them all? I don't see how that could possibly be true.

 

^ This is right. Also, it is simply not true that "the AS are the only ones with a history of dealing with objects of power." The Tairens and Aiel both have extensive experience in dealing with them. And yes, keeping them locked up or isolated counts as "dealing with objects of power."

 

It is also a bit disingenuous to attempt to shift the argument from Mat retaining his own property to arguing that the alternative is people just leaving ter'angreal "laying around."

 

Randsc go back and read the thread. My posts have been on the side of Mat from the start, I was answering a diff post comparing AS/Items of Power and Shienirians/Swords. I think some of the extremist posters have you seeing boogeymen in every shadow at this point.

 

While keeping them locked up may be one way to "deal" with items of power, what is disingenuous is attempting to describe that as "extensive experience".

[Hybrid]

The thanks he got for the Gholam was to be used as a pawn in the Sea Folk negotiations. Thanks ladies!

 

Also, the whole all ter'angreal belonging to the White Tower is such a BS writ. That would be like Shienar declaring all swords belong to them.

 

It is not a BS writ. In TFoH, Moiraine decides to bring the Rhuidean ter'angreal to the WT, because Moiraine thinks they belong to the WT (is it even a Tower Law? I should check WoT wikia for that). That's no BS writing.

 

I'm pretty sure he means bs as in bull---- and writ as in a formal written document (i.e. a law).

[randsc]

Oh, I know that you have taken the pro-Mat position regarding his ter'angreal. But you have imported the "AS should have custody of magical objects" position from the other thread. And it's still wrong.

 

Successfully safeguarding objects for centuries counts as extensive experience by any reasonable standard.

 

Frankly, the reason for both the Tairen and Aiel caches was to keep them out of the hands of the Aes Sedai (male Aes Sedai, in the case of the Aiel, any Aes Sedai, in the case of the Tairen.)

 

Power centralized in a few hands is almost always a bad thing.

 

I personally would love to see the bargain that frees the damane look something like this. "You say we must free these people, that our culture and history teach us are extremely dangerous? Fine, we agree. In exchange, everyone who can channel will be required to wear, at all times, one of these "flawed" foxhead medallions..."

[randsc]

I also have a pet theory that the "Guardians" that will balance the "Servants" are not the Asha'man, but rather Guardians like Far Maddings. I don't really expect to see it, but I would love it.

[Suttree]

I personally would love to see the bargain that frees the damane look something like this. "You say we must free these people, that our culture and history teach us are extremely dangerous? Fine, we agree. In exchange, everyone who can channel will be required to wear, at all times, one of these "flawed" foxhead medallions..."

 

So preemptive punishment because someone has the "potential" to be dangerous?

[randsc]

Surely you don't advocate just leaving those powerful creatures, "laying around?"

 

I'd rather see channeling simply disappear.