Aes Sedai and the White Tower

[Puny]

@ Suttree

 

I don't believe there're any examples of a centralized hospital in a given Randland city.

 

That being said, there's nothing holding anyone in particular back, from founding one. At the same time, it's not the fault of the Aes Sedai that nobody's gotten off their rear and taken some responsibility for doing so - but it does seem easy enough to blame someone else for your own problems.

 

@ USURP888

 

There's neither arrogance, nor smugness in those statements. You only chose to interpret it as such.

 

It can take months for the people which have the longest to travel. And except the Kin do we know how many of the Healers and Wise Women can actually use the One Power? That you can travel to the White Tower is not the point. The point is... if the Aes Sedai truly cared about the world, they would be in the world making a difference. In 3000 years there should have been some lasting monuments, schools, institutions, discoveries, development but there hasn´t. And this goes not to the AS but to everyone in Randland. Nothing changes, everything is stagnant. That´s the biggest thing that bugs me with WoT and how Jordan wrote it.

[Suttree]

The point is... if the Aes Sedai truly cared about the world, they would be in the world making a difference. In 3000 years there should have been some lasting monuments, schools, institutions, discoveries, development but there hasn´t. And this goes not to the AS but to everyone in Randland. Nothing changes, everything is stagnant. That´s the biggest thing that bugs me with WoT and how Jordan wrote it.

 

For the AS as a force against the shadow, the biggest monument has been that the world still stands. Breaking, Trolloc Wars, birth of the DR any of those events without AS and the world is already doomed.

[sleepinghour]

He already gave examples of other more mundane healing options. The wisdoms seem to be very effective and have a good track record. Not to mention every where we have seen Yellows out in the world they rush to provide healing at the slightest sign of injury.

Sure, the Wisdoms are effective, but as Nynaeve herself acknowledges, you can only do so much with herbs. Egwene's sister Berowyn lost her husband and baby to something as simple as breakbone fever, which Nynaeve was able to Heal Egwene from even as an untrained wilder. Tam, Elayne, Rand, Egeanin, and Perrin among others would also have been dead already if not for Healing.

 

I don't believe there're any examples of a centralized hospital in a given Randland city.

 

That being said, there's nothing holding anyone in particular back, from founding one. At the same time, it's not the fault of the Aes Sedai that nobody's gotten off their rear and taken some responsibility for doing so - but it does seem easy enough to blame someone else for your own problems.

It's not about hospital buildings, the point here is that there should be Yellows in all major cities offering free Healing to people who need it. They don't even need to build a hospital for that; in TGS, Nynaeve Healed a boy on the street and told his parents to send any other sick people to the Aes Sedai staying at the Palace. If she had remained in Bandar Eban, there would probably have been an increasing stream of people asking for Healing and a lot more goodwill towards Aes Sedai.

 

If the Aes Sedai prefer to remain in Tar Valon instead of using their powers to help the outside world, that's their choice...but then they should stop referring to themselves as "pride of the Light" and acting like everybody else owes them a great deal of respect, or money for that matter. It's particularly off-putting that they regularly take money from the Borderlands, but are doing nothing to help those countries when they're being overrun by Trollocs.

[Suttree]

If the Aes Sedai prefer to remain in Tar Valon instead of using their powers to help the outside world, that's their choice...but then they should stop referring to themselves as "pride of the Light" and acting like everybody else owes them a great deal of respect, or money for that matter. It's particularly off-putting that they regularly take money from the Borderlands, but are doing nothing to help those countries when they're being overrun by Trollocs.

 

Have you read up on the history of Randland at all? At every turn the AS have been there to fight the shadow. Their successes far outweigh individual instances like not being able to get to Malkier in time.(and the only reason Malkier fell in the first place was treachery from within)

 

As for the present do you really think when TG kicks off their will not be AS in the front lines? ToM specifically said Egwene was using the Blue Network to best assess how to deal with what was going on in the Borderlands. She took it seriously enough to use wartime powers to take over the network even though it wasn't the Amrylin's right to do so. When pointing fingers look first to the Borderland rulers who are MIA when the attacks started!

[Puny]

If the Aes Sedai prefer to remain in Tar Valon instead of using their powers to help the outside world, that's their choice...but then they should stop referring to themselves as "pride of the Light" and acting like everybody else owes them a great deal of respect, or money for that matter. It's particularly off-putting that they regularly take money from the Borderlands, but are doing nothing to help those countries when they're being overrun by Trollocs.

 

Have you read up on the history of Randland at all? At every turn the AS have been there to fight the shadow. Their successes far outweigh individual instances like not being able to get to Malkier in time.(and the only reason Malkier fell in the first place was treachery from within)

 

As for the present do you really think when TG kicks off their will not be AS in the front lines? ToM specifically said Egwene was using the Blue Network to best assess how to deal with what was going on in the Borderlands. She took it seriously enough to use wartime powers to take over the network even though it wasn't the Amrylin's right to do so. When pointing fingers look first to the Borderland rulers who are MIA when the attacks started!

 

I´m just gonna respond to your reply on my comment first. I understand that the AS has done a service in maintaining a status quo. That´s not what I´m arguing. What I am arguing is that they could make the world better, take a more active involvement in the actual world except when doom is knocking on their door. And tbh... if all there is to the world is a constant stagnant non-devolopment and repetition but hey the world is still here... then I´m all for Team Shadow. Such as world is already doomed.

 

The reason the Borderland armies were MIA is because of some Shadow-plot. Although I think it´s weird that they have been vigilant for 100 of years, and just now they decide to go away, but I guess the Shadow can be very convincing. Aes Sedai purpose is to serve all, and not only when the Shadow is threatening the world. So because they fight the Shadow every 500 year or so they can grow complacent and not mind the walls aoutside of Tar Valon?

[Suttree]

If the Aes Sedai prefer to remain in Tar Valon instead of using their powers to help the outside world, that's their choice...but then they should stop referring to themselves as "pride of the Light" and acting like everybody else owes them a great deal of respect, or money for that matter. It's particularly off-putting that they regularly take money from the Borderlands, but are doing nothing to help those countries when they're being overrun by Trollocs.

 

Have you read up on the history of Randland at all? At every turn the AS have been there to fight the shadow. Their successes far outweigh individual instances like not being able to get to Malkier in time.(and the only reason Malkier fell in the first place was treachery from within)

 

As for the present do you really think when TG kicks off their will not be AS in the front lines? ToM specifically said Egwene was using the Blue Network to best assess how to deal with what was going on in the Borderlands. She took it seriously enough to use wartime powers to take over the network even though it wasn't the Amrylin's right to do so. When pointing fingers look first to the Borderland rulers who are MIA when the attacks started!

 

I´m just gonna respond to your reply on my comment first. I understand that the AS has done a service in maintaining a status quo. That´s not what I´m arguing. What I am arguing is that they could make the world better, take a more active involvement in the actual world except when doom is knocking on their door. And tbh... if all there is to the world is a constant stagnant non-devolopment and repetition but hey the world is still here... then I´m all for Team Shadow. Such as world is already doomed.

 

The reason the Borderland armies were MIA is because of some Shadow-plot. Although I think it´s weird that they have been vigilant for 100 of years, and just now they decide to go away, but I guess the Shadow can be very convincing. Aes Sedai purpose is to serve all, and not only when the Shadow is threatening the world. So because they fight the Shadow every 500 year or so they can grow complacent and not mind the walls aoutside of Tar Valon?

 

As BBD said earlier in this thread

 

Society has fallen and the DO is superior (before the ta'veren came along, this is) the world as a whole is in terrible state.

 

One of the points RJ is trying to make is that this is a fallen world. Technology has been reduced, populations are down, vast pieces of land are uninhabited. Ever since the breaking every time society starts to build the shadow knocks it down again.

[Mats Spare Hat]

@ Suttree

 

I don't believe there're any examples of a centralized hospital in a given Randland city.

 

That being said, there's nothing holding anyone in particular back, from founding one. At the same time, it's not the fault of the Aes Sedai that nobody's gotten off their rear and taken some responsibility for doing so - but it does seem easy enough to blame someone else for your own problems.

 

@ USURP888

 

There's neither arrogance, nor smugness in those statements. You only chose to interpret it as such.

 

It can take months for the people which have the longest to travel. And except the Kin do we know how many of the Healers and Wise Women can actually use the One Power? That you can travel to the White Tower is not the point. The point is... if the Aes Sedai truly cared about the world, they would be in the world making a difference. In 3000 years there should have been some lasting monuments, schools, institutions, discoveries, development but there hasn´t. And this goes not to the AS but to everyone in Randland. Nothing changes, everything is stagnant. That´s the biggest thing that bugs me with WoT and how Jordan wrote it.

 

 

I agree on the point regarding development.

 

However, heavily note that we are not given the details of every single thing that happened in 3000 years from the point of view of every single Aes Sedai, nor any other person that lived over the course of that time period.

 

It's insanely face-palming to notice how people damn the Aes Sedai for not 'truely caring about the word' as you put it, for example, as a whole when we're given severely limited examples first hand, of both good & ill, done by a very very concentrated few with regard to the expanse of recent history.

 

It's like saying all baseball players are roid-raging idiots who bet on the game because you only know bout Pete Rose & Barry Bonds.

[sleepinghour]

Have you read up on the history of Randland at all?

I have, but thanks for your condescension.

 

At every turn the AS have been there to fight the shadow. Their successes far outweigh individual instances like not being able to get to Malkier in time.(and the only reason Malkier fell in the first place was treachery from within)

Then I must have missed the part where the Aes Sedai were helping Shienar in TEotW, because all I remember is Agelmar begging Moiraine for help. Malkier fell without their help arriving in time, and still they didn't care to leave any Aes Sedai stationed at Fal Dara ready to help prevent the same thing from happening to Shienar. If not for Rand, it would have.

 

As for the present do you really think when TG kicks off their will not be AS in the front lines? ToM specifically said Egwene was using the Blue Network to best assess how to deal with what was going on in the Borderlands. She took it seriously enough to use wartime powers to take over the network even though it wasn't the Amrylin's right to do so. When pointing fingers look first to the Borderland rulers who are MIA when the attacks started!

Tarmon Gai'don already has kicked off, that's the problem. And I'm not absolving the Borderland rulers of guilt, but this topic is about the Aes Sedai, not what Rand or various monarchs should be doing.

 

"The invasion has begun," she [silviana] said. "Watchtowers across the Blight-border go silent, one at a time. Waves of Trollocs advance beneath clouds that boil black. Kandor, Arafel and Saldaea are at war."

"Do they hold?" Egwene asked with a spike of fear.

"Yes," Silviana said. "But news is uncertain and piecemeal. This letter--which is from an eyes-and-ears I trust--claims that an assault this massive has not been seen since the Trolloc Wars."

The next message they get could very well be about Kandor or Arafel having fallen (Maradon was on the brink until Rand stepped in). How long are they planning to wait before sending any help? And when Egwene goes to the Hall with the information...

 

"Are you aware that Kandor, Saldaea and Arafel are swarming with Shadowspawn?"

Several of the sisters gasped. Others nodded, including Lelaine. So the Blue network was still reliable. Good.

...we find out that some Sitters had already heard about it from their networks, but for some reason didn't see fit to share that piece of important information with the rest. And nobody says a word about preparing the Green sisters or sending aid. Fighting Trollocs isn't the only thing they could be doing to help the Borderlands; with Traveling, they could easily help evacuate the cities or villages most at risk or transport food which seems scarce in a number of places.

[Suttree]

Have you read up on the history of Randland at all?

I have, but thanks for your condescension.

 

At every turn the AS have been there to fight the shadow. Their successes far outweigh individual instances like not being able to get to Malkier in time.(and the only reason Malkier fell in the first place was treachery from within)

Then I must have missed the part where the Aes Sedai were helping Shienar in TEotW, because all I remember is Agelmar begging Moiraine for help. Malkier fell without their help arriving in time, and still they didn't care to leave any Aes Sedai stationed at Fal Dara ready to help prevent the same thing from happening to Shienar. If not for Rand, it would have.

 

Try digging a little deeper into history than recent skirmishes that are little more to TG than the bell sounding at the start of a round. She has been mentioned already but look up Rashima Kerenmosa and tell me the AS haven't done their part. Or more recent history like Gitara ensuring the Dragon was reborn. As for your quote from Egwene above you(purposely?) left out the part where she grabbed the reigns for the blue network to plan how to counter the invasion.

[Manscher]

Suttree, all you are doing is mentioning single individuals who've done a great service. What people is questioning is the Aes Sedai and the White Tower as a whole, they really haven't been doing ANYTHING worth mentioning, in fact their constant need to be in control and arrogant attitude have worsened a lot of the situations in books, Moiraine admits this very core issue with the Aes Sedais in her letter to Rand. Cadsaune herself admits that fault in her PoV as well, she is annoyed that the Aes Sedai are to busy arguing over what is best for the Tower, instead of what is best for the world. Instead of supporting and helping the Dragon, their need to be in control and to manipulate everything drove him more and more distrusting.

 

So yes, the Aes Sedai and The White Tower as a whole is terrible flawed, they've forgotten their true purpose, to be servants of all and have instead gotten some sort of odd idea that THEY should ALWAYS be in control of everything.

 

 

 

EDIT: And as for Egwene using the Blue Network, seriously, you are getting reports that the towers all over the borderland is being attacked, and you then decide to sit and wait for pidgeons and messengers arriving with news, rather than just sending a bunch of sisters up there to take a look at the situation? Within a day Egwene could have a full report of the situation in all the Borderlands and could send sisters up there to aid in the defence, instead she's more busy with manipulating Rands allies into opposing him..

[Puny]

Suttree, all you are doing is mentioning single individuals who've done a great service. What people is questioning is the Aes Sedai and the White Tower as a whole, they really haven't been doing ANYTHING worth mentioning, in fact their constant need to be in control and arrogant attitude have worsened a lot of the situations in books, Moiraine admits this very core issue with the Aes Sedais in her letter to Rand. Cadsaune herself admits that fault in her PoV as well, she is annoyed that the Aes Sedai are to busy arguing over what is best for the Tower, instead of what is best for the world. Instead of supporting and helping the Dragon, their need to be in control and to manipulate everything drove him more and more distrusting.

 

So yes, the Aes Sedai and The White Tower as a whole is terrible flawed, they've forgotten their true purpose, to be servants of all and have instead gotten some sort of odd idea that THEY should ALWAYS be in control of everything.

 

 

This was what I meant by my post, Mat´s Spare Hat. Ofc we haven´t seen 3000 years of history, then the series would never be finished. It may be as Barid Bel Medar says, that the world is in a state of decline near TG, but if that is so, then the Aes Sedai as an organization have been on decline long before that.

[Zentari]

I always thought the concept of people harping on yellows founding hospitals outside Tar Valon was a bit laughable.

Them actually getting of their asses is comical ? Interesting.

 

If you want healing from the best, you know exactly where to find it. They'll treat anybody, and we haven't been given any examples where those seeking healing have been turned away.

Yeap.Except for the teeny tine part where you have to be able to get there in the first place.

 

All the best, in one place. And, you might even find one out and about in the world that'll help you out as well.

The journey to survive ! It will also broaden your horizons!

 

A hospital with some of the best and brightest with outstanding resources, that never turns anyone away.

Also, serving tea in all imaginable flavors.Well, mostly,classic flavors are still all the rage.

 

Cleveland Clinic, anybody? ...Mayo Clinic, even?

You've GOT to be joking.Are you seriously comparing these with the WT situation ? Besides the obvious flaw, like TRANSPORTATION for one,there's no actual health care system to support you.

 

I take it back, the bit laughable turned into hilarious. Villages all seem to have a wisdom, or mother hubbard, what have you, that specializes in helping the sick & injured, hell in Ebou Dar you've got the Kin running around practically franchised by the Aes Sedai without even their own knowledge - some of the best healers that side of the world, in an organization hatched by the oollleee white tower.

First of all, wisdoms have NOTHING to do with AS.It's a village thing , one they had to have, to survive (which kinda shows how much validity your argument about everyone being able to find healing at the WT has).The kin is also not franchised in ANY way.It is not even acknowledged, the AS ignore them as long as they keep their heads down.Can't take credit for that either.

 

...It's like complaining that there's no world class neurosurgeon or research oncologist at your rural hospital, when you know exactly where you can find them, and they'll never turn you away.

Except that it's like the only neurosurgeon in existence,you know and besides I have my car and ready means of transportation to actually get there.Those people do not have that luxury.

[sleepinghour]

She has been mentioned already but look up Rashima Kerenmosa and tell me the AS haven't done their part.

A single Aes Sedai from the Trolloc Wars (IIRC, that was 600 or 700 years ago?) counts as "their part"? I don't doubt that the Tower contributed as much as it could under her rule, but the current generation certainly doesn't, aside from a few exceptions already mentioned.

 

As for your quote from Egwene above you(purposely?) left out the part where she grabbed the reigns for the blue network to plan how to counter the invasion.

No, and I actually thought that part was pretty disappointing, too. Here's the rest of the exchange:

 

Egwene took a deep breath. "What of Tarwin's Gap?"

"I don't know."

"Find out. Call Siuan in here. She might have more. The Blue network is the most extensive." Siuan wouldn't know everything, of course, but she would have her fingers in it.

Silviana nodded curtly. She didn't say the obvious--that the Blue network was the Blue Ajah's, not to be preempted by the Amyrlin. Well, the Last Battle was at hand. Some concessions had to be made.

Siuan and the Blues apparently can't be trusted to pass on every scrap of relevant information they get unless prompted. This is confirmed in the next scene where we learn that Lelaine and a few other Sitters already knew about the invasion, but the rest didn't. Even at a time like this, the Ajahs are still hoarding knowledge as if there's something to gain from it. (The winner gets to say "Well, I heard it first!" when the world ends?) It's something that might be expected from Lelaine, but Siuan of all people should know better, and is supposed to be one of Egwene's most trusted allies.

 

And while it's good that Egwene is putting her foot down on this, it seems as though she's still only asking for more information at this point, which she could be getting much more of if she actually sent sisters via Traveling instead of relying on "uncertain and piecemeal" news from eyes-and-ears. Nowhere does Egwene or anyone else mention anything they're actually doing or preparing to do for the Borderlands. I really would like to see in AMoL that the AS are in fact preparing to do all they can for the Borderlands. It would be particularly disappointing to see them fail the Malkieri a second time; even if Rand's forces contain Aes Sedai, it wouldn't be the same as the Tower sending help.

[Suttree]

Suttree, all you are doing is mentioning single individuals who've done a great service. What people is questioning is the Aes Sedai and the White Tower as a whole, they really haven't been doing ANYTHING worth mentioning

 

How do single individuals not count towards what the Tower is doing? No one is arguing that the WT is fallen from what it was and should be. Thats kind of the point for the age they are are in. Yoniy0 made a long list earlier of various AS and contributions for the light. As for the borderlands if and when we get through TG and the AS have done nothing I might entertain your view. As it is I have pointed out every crucial juncture in history were AS have played a huge role in preserving the light. Many of those "single" AS mentioned were either Amrylin's or Keepers so yes I would say that is very much representative of the Towers interests.

 

Siuan and the Blues apparently can't be trusted to pass on every scrap of relevant information they get unless prompted.

 

Really...at this point in the storyline you truly believe Siuan is holding critical information back from Egwene?

[capuga]

If the Aes Sedai prefer to remain in Tar Valon instead of using their powers to help the outside world, that's their choice...but then they should stop referring to themselves as "pride of the Light" and acting like everybody else owes them a great deal of respect, or money for that matter. It's particularly off-putting that they regularly take money from the Borderlands, but are doing nothing to help those countries when they're being overrun by Trollocs.

 

Have you read up on the history of Randland at all? At every turn the AS have been there to fight the shadow. Their successes far outweigh individual instances like not being able to get to Malkier in time.(and the only reason Malkier fell in the first place was treachery from within)

 

As for the present do you really think when TG kicks off their will not be AS in the front lines? ToM specifically said Egwene was using the Blue Network to best assess how to deal with what was going on in the Borderlands. She took it seriously enough to use wartime powers to take over the network even though it wasn't the Amrylin's right to do so. When pointing fingers look first to the Borderland rulers who are MIA when the attacks started!

 

So they have helped a few times when the world was at war. That's not the point. How does that absolve them of not routinely being in the Borderlands to help with the fight. Particularly when those lands are sending you monetary tributes. It would at least make good practice for the "Battle Ajah". We don't even see any instances of them training for battle and honing their craft in the White Tower. Maybe they wouldn't have pee'd themselves when the Seanchan attacked if they did a better job of preparing for what they claim to be all about.

 

Same with the Yellow. How people are arguing that its OK to insist that severly sick/injured people with no modern transportation travel to Tar Valon for Healing is beyond me. Sure villages have people like the Kin to help. You'll notice that the Kin are scared out of their minds to be seen Channeling because the Aes Sedai will come down on them for helping people that the White Tower refuse to help. Of course they should be establishing hospitals and helping as many people as they can. I'm not sure how that's not a good idea. Isn't that their whole purpose in life. How many people do they actually Heal in Tar Valon? Most don't trust Aes Sedai enough to make the trip even if they could. Perhaps there wouldn't be so much mistrust if Aes Sedai had spent more time out in the world helping rather then politicking for control. And again the Yellow fail in practicing and honing their craft. Where is the innovation? Where is the traveling to talk to Wisdoms and learn what they can about herbs and healing. When nobody leaves one place, nothing new is learned. That is why Nynaeve and members of the Kin far outstripe the Yellows in Healing. Because they are outside of the Tar Valon indoctrination and they actually learn new things.

 

Same with the Browns and the schools. And on and on.

 

Its not that the Aes Sedai don't help the world. Of course they do. The real problem is the absolute waste of potential. How can it be argued that they could be so much more then what they are? Look how much greater the younger generation already is then almost all established Aes Sedai. Because they think outside the Tar Valon box. They are what all Aes Sedai should and could be. Nobody says that you're a bad student if you get a B-. But when you're capable of an A+ its a little hard to give you too much credit for achieving far under your potential.

 

And mentioning the accomplishments of 20 or so individuals in an organization of 1500 to 2000 women is not exactly a compelling argument.

[Suttree]

And mentioning the accomplishments of 20 or so individuals in an organization of 1500 to 2000 women is not exactly a compelling argument.

 

Come on Mark, out of the NAMED AS we have been given in the books the majority have been working very diligently for the Light. I've seen your posts and know you understand enough about this world to see that. It's funny that people try and cherry pick and say those greates accomplishments(you know little things liking saving the world a few times over) don't count when viewing over all what the tower has done. Hopefully for the last time I'll say, RJ is trying to portray a society in decline. It's the whole point of this time period leading up to TG.

 

Again no one is arguing there isn't wasted potential. I agree with most of what Himiko posted a few pages back. As for hospitals we haven't seen one example in any major city of a centralized health system. Hopefully that will change after the last battle, something along the lines of that Brown who Min saw who would found a center of learning.

[capuga]

And mentioning the accomplishments of 20 or so individuals in an organization of 1500 to 2000 women is not exactly a compelling argument.

 

Come on Mark, out of the NAMED AS we have been given in the books the majority have been working very diligently for the Light. I've seen your posts and know you understand enough about this world to see that.

 

Again no one is arguing there isn't wasted potential. I agree with most of what Himiko posted a few pages back. As for hospitals we haven't seen one example in any major city of a centralized health system. Hopefully that will change after the last battle, something along the lines of that Brown who Min saw who would found a center of learning.

 

I'm just saying that with what we have seen the excellent accomplishments of those AS that have been listed seem like more of an exception to the rule rather then the norm when it seems that there are hundreds or thousands of them that are either poor or just meh. A school with 20 A or B students and 1500 C students is average, not Harvard.

 

I agree that overall the White Tower is a force for good. Just not nearly as great as they believe themselves to be. Or as great as they should/could be.

[MasterAblar]

And mentioning the accomplishments of 20 or so individuals in an organization of 1500 to 2000 women is not exactly a compelling argument.

 

Come on Mark, out of the NAMED AS we have been given in the books the majority have been working very diligently for the Light. I've seen your posts and know you understand enough about this world to see that. It's funny that people try and cherry pick and say those greates accomplishments(you know little things liking saving the world a few times over) don't count when viewing over all what the tower has done. Hopefully for the last time I'll say, RJ is trying to portray a society in decline. It's the whole point of this time period leading up to TG.

 

Again no one is arguing there isn't wasted potential. I agree with most of what Himiko posted a few pages back. As for hospitals we haven't seen one example in any major city of a centralized health system. Hopefully that will change after the last battle, something along the lines of that Brown who Min saw who would found a center of learning.

 

Perhaps society wouldn't be in such a decline if the aes sedai had done a better job. I'm not saying they're the only ones who have failed, but considering who they are, all the tools at their disposal, and the HUGE respect and privileges they are given, I really think they should have done better.

 

Saving the world, bringing it back from the brink two or three times in 3000 years (I think?) is great and all, but it seems that they are acting and actually doing their job only when it becomes absolutely neccessary. So sure you'll survive, but you won't actually get anywhere and progress, which is sort of a shame since it might actually prevent any huge crisis from happening again. In what way do the aes sedai who weren't present then, at the time of those crisis, deserve the respect and priviliges they are getting?

 

The yellow ajah I'll never understand. You like healing, you're an aes sedai, you're suppose to help people. Why not go out in the world and actually do that instead of waiting for people to come to you. Most people can't afford to do that in the first place. If a person gets hit by a car right in front of me, I think I should probably call an ambulance. I'll hardly expect the person who got hit to treat me like aes sedai are treated. And calling an ambulance for a person who got hit right in front of me is about the equivalent in my opinion of the yellow ajah healing people who come up the their doorstep and ask for it. It costs about the same effort too. I wouldn't be doing something that's deserving of huge respect, I'm just doing the right thing, like the yellow ajah do when they heal people who côme to the WT asking for healing. The yellow ajah should be more the equivalent of say, the Red Cross for example.

 

The Green ajah are green. Enough said.

[Zentari]

The yellow ajah I'll never understand. You like healing, you're an aes sedai, you're suppose to help people. Why not go out in the world and actually do that instead of waiting for people to come to you. Most people can't afford to do that in the first place. If a person gets hit by a car right in front of me, I think I should probably call an ambulance. I'll hardly expect the person who got hit to treat me like aes sedai are treated. And calling an ambulance for a person who got hit right in front of me is about the equivalent in my opinion of the yellow ajah healing people who come up the their doorstep and ask for it. It costs about the same effort too. The yellow ajah should be more the equivalent of say, the Red Cross for example.

 

Personally, I believe it's because of the centralized power structure.Everything important for the normal Aes Sedai happens in the tower so a leave from a yellow Ajah member would put it at a serious disadvantage,since the other ajahs would be in a the tower able to do their powerplays without the yellow having part in it.

[sleepinghour]

Siuan and the Blues apparently can't be trusted to pass on every scrap of relevant information they get unless prompted.

 

Really...at this point in the storyline you truly believe Siuan is holding critical information back from Egwene?

As Egwene herself seemed to think since she summoned Siuan to ask what she knew ("Call Siuan in here. She might have more.") and preempt the Blue network. That is what disappointed me; why would a trusted ally like Siuan not immediately tell Egwene everything she hears? It made no sense. And after that we find out that the Blues did know about the invasion already. In what way am I describing the situation wrong?

[MasterAblar]

The yellow ajah I'll never understand. You like healing, you're an aes sedai, you're suppose to help people. Why not go out in the world and actually do that instead of waiting for people to come to you. Most people can't afford to do that in the first place. If a person gets hit by a car right in front of me, I think I should probably call an ambulance. I'll hardly expect the person who got hit to treat me like aes sedai are treated. And calling an ambulance for a person who got hit right in front of me is about the equivalent in my opinion of the yellow ajah healing people who come up the their doorstep and ask for it. It costs about the same effort too. The yellow ajah should be more the equivalent of say, the Red Cross for example.

 

Personally, I believe it's because of the centralized power structure.Everything important for the normal Aes Sedai happens in the tower so a leave from a yellow Ajah member would put it at a serious disadvantage,since the other ajahs would be in a the tower able to do their powerplays without the yellow having part in it.

 

Oh, no doubt aes sedai have plenty of reasons for why they should stay in the tower, and doubt few are good reasons. It's really no surprise that, excluding the world ending crisis which have been averted thanks largely to the aes sedai, and more particularly certain inluential aes sedai, the best aes sedai in the series have been those who have spent a large amount, or even most, of their time, outside the tower.

[MasterAblar]

Siuan and the Blues apparently can't be trusted to pass on every scrap of relevant information they get unless prompted.

 

Really...at this point in the storyline you truly believe Siuan is holding critical information back from Egwene?

As Egwene herself seemed to think since she summoned Siuan to ask what she knew ("Call Siuan in here. She might have more.") and preempt the Blue network. That is what disappointed me; why would a trusted ally like Siuan not immediately tell Egwene everything she hears? It made no sense. And after that we find out that the Blues did know about the invasion already. In what way am I describing the situation wrong?

 

I kind of hope that Rand will take all the aes sedai to Maradon from the FoM and just go:

 

"You know I think the Last Battle may have begun, what do you think?"

[Mats Spare Hat]

 

If you want healing from the best, you know exactly where to find it. They'll treat anybody, and we haven't been given any examples where those seeking healing have been turned away.

Yeap.Except for the teeny tine part where you have to be able to get there in the first place.

 

 

 

As I also stated. That's your problem for getting injured severely enough, and far enough away from a severe minority of super-powered individuals that would be able to help. It's not the Aes Sedai's fault for you being hurt, the same as it's not their fault for you being somewhere they're not.

 

All the best, in one place. And, you might even find one out and about in the world that'll help you out as well.

The journey to survive ! It will also broaden your horizons!

 

Again, not the Aes Sedai's fault. Life happens. If I fell down the stairs & shattered my pelvis, with nobody around to hear me scream, it doesn't make it the doctor or surgeons fault for not being within earshot, or if I die/become permanently injured as a result. Regardless if they're 500 miles away, or 5 miles down the road.

 

Cleveland Clinic, anybody? ...Mayo Clinic, even?

You've GOT to be joking.Are you seriously comparing these with the WT situation ? Besides the obvious flaw, like TRANSPORTATION for one,there's no actual health care system to support you.

 

 

At both of those clinics, world class & specialized care is offered to anyone who walks in the door. They do not do house calls. Is that parallel too vague for you?

 

[Zentari]

As I also stated. That's your problem for getting injured severely enough, and far enough away from a severe minority of super-powered individuals that would be able to help. It's not the Aes Sedai's fault for you being hurt, the same as it's not their fault for you being somewhere they're not.

This is just monumentally arrogant and high-handed not to mention wrong.It IS the doctors job to fix you, just like it's the system's responsibility to get you there in time.While you getting hurt is not their fault,them not having personnel spread out is.

 

 

 

Again, not the Aes Sedai's fault. Life happens. If I fell down the stairs & shattered my pelvis, with nobody around to hear me scream, it doesn't make it the doctor or surgeons fault for not being within earshot, or if I die/become permanently injured as a result. Regardless if they're 500 miles away, or 5 miles down the road.

Yeah, shit happens is such a great excuse.Until you realize that it can be applied to anything in order to justify it.

 

At both of those clinics, world class & specialized care is offered to anyone who walks in the door. They do not do house calls. Is that parallel too vague for you?

No, it's just downright wrong.

[USURP888]

 

If you want healing from the best, you know exactly where to find it. They'll treat anybody, and we haven't been given any examples where those seeking healing have been turned away.

Yeap.Except for the teeny tine part where you have to be able to get there in the first place.

 

 

 

As I also stated. That's your problem for getting injured severely enough, and far enough away from a severe minority of super-powered individuals that would be able to help. It's not the Aes Sedai's fault for you being hurt, the same as it's not their fault for you being somewhere they're not.

 

All the best, in one place. And, you might even find one out and about in the world that'll help you out as well.

The journey to survive ! It will also broaden your horizons!

 

Again, not the Aes Sedai's fault. Life happens. If I fell down the stairs & shattered my pelvis, with nobody around to hear me scream, it doesn't make it the doctor or surgeons fault for not being within earshot, or if I die/become permanently injured as a result. Regardless if they're 500 miles away, or 5 miles down the road.

 

Cleveland Clinic, anybody? ...Mayo Clinic, even?

You've GOT to be joking.Are you seriously comparing these with the WT situation ? Besides the obvious flaw, like TRANSPORTATION for one,there's no actual health care system to support you.

 

 

At both of those clinics, world class & specialized care is offered to anyone who walks in the door. They do not do house calls. Is that parallel too vague for you?

 

 

I don't know if this is willful ignorance or really you just don't get it. You say that the patient should be responsible for travelling to Tar Valon if they need help, there are neither Airplanes, Trains or Automobile for fast transport, even after travelling has been rediscovered, only Elayne has thought of using it for her nation's benefit. What chance does a person have to go to Tar Valon if he lives 1 week away from travel?

 

You say there is no arrogance in your statement but your tone reeks of it. Hopefully this is not the same mindset that frames the Yellow Ajahs viewpoint, your post stating if they want healing they should come smacks of elitism of the highest order.