What exactly did Demandred do?

[MasterAblar]

He points out there is something iffy about Taim's appearance and then follows this up by having Taim display knowledge that Demandred probably wouldn't have. There's no reason to suspect an imposter, and good reason not to.

Oh, come on. 'Look here - a mystery' followed immediately by 'no, never mind' is a fail-safe way to tell the readers something's wrong without the characters' realizing that. I was hardly persuaded by Taim's answer. I dare anyone to claim otherwise. If all there was to it was a new beard, what's the point of the whole exchange?

 

That Taim is still fishy in my mind. But isn´t it that he has worked with the Forsaken and picked up some of their words and way of speaking?

 

 

Well, if you read ToM, people in the Black Tower

don't seem to be who they were. Anyone who takes one of Taim's lessons turns out "wrong" as well as incredibly adroit in ToP compared to their previous selves.

 

 

It's safe to assume the same happened to Taim.

 

He doesn't have the dead look in his eyes.

[cookiecrisp]

He doesn't have the dead look in his eyes.

 

 

I thought it was the "wrong" smile and not the eyes that gave it away.

[OptimusPrime]

He points out there is something iffy about Taim's appearance and then follows this up by having Taim display knowledge that Demandred probably wouldn't have. There's no reason to suspect an imposter, and good reason not to.

Oh, come on. 'Look here - a mystery' followed immediately by 'no, never mind' is a fail-safe way to tell the readers something's wrong without the characters' realizing that. I was hardly persuaded by Taim's answer. I dare anyone to claim otherwise. If all there was to it was a new beard, what's the point of the whole exchange?

 

That Taim is still fishy in my mind. But isn´t it that he has worked with the Forsaken and picked up some of their words and way of speaking?

 

 

Well, if you read ToM, people in the Black Tower

don't seem to be who they were. Anyone who takes one of Taim's lessons turns out "wrong" as well as incredibly adroit in ToP compared to their previous selves.

 

 

It's safe to assume the same happened to Taim.

 

He doesn't have the dead look in his eyes.

 

Indeed. Ishamael wasnt turned.

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[MasterAblar]

He doesn't have the dead look in his eyes.

 

 

I thought it was the "wrong" smile and not the eyes that gave it away.

 

That too, but Taim doesn't smile anyway. One of the reasons why people thought he might be Demandred, who also adheres strictly to the "no smiling" clause in his contract with the DO.

[mbuehner]

Indeed. Ishamael wasnt turned.

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

Doesn't have the crazy eyes either. The problem i have with the ishmael-taim theory is that taim isn't doing weird things like carrying rats around on his shoulder and basically creeping people out. Everybody that spends 30 seconds with Moridin talks about how off he is.

[jwood01]

He doesn't have the dead look in his eyes.

 

 

I thought it was the "wrong" smile and not the eyes that gave it away.

 

That too, but Taim doesn't smile anyway. One of the reasons why people thought he might be Demandred, who also adheres strictly to the "no smiling" clause in his contract with the DO.

 

Taim doesn't smile when he's oogling Elayne?

[MasterAblar]

He doesn't have the dead look in his eyes.

 

 

I thought it was the "wrong" smile and not the eyes that gave it away.

 

That too, but Taim doesn't smile anyway. One of the reasons why people thought he might be Demandred, who also adheres strictly to the "no smiling" clause in his contract with the DO.

 

Taim doesn't smile when he's oogling Elayne?

 

That's not a smile, that's a leer. There's always mentions of how he "almost smiles" or "half-smiles". I think there might be something wrong with his mouth. I wish him luck though, I'm sure he'll succeed eventually.

[True Source Creator]

Even though I want Demandred to do something (and something terribly evil at that), I find his mystery to be kind of exciting. In the prologue to TGS, I just loved how Graendal was calculating what all the Forsaken were up to: Mesaana in the White Tower, Moridin being Moridin, Aran'gar with the rebel Aes Sedai, Cyndane and Moghedian flocking about to Moridin's every fancy, and Semirhage in the Seanchan high command. But then this line about Demandred made me crack a smile:

 

She was confident she knew the plans of every one of the remaining seven Chosen.

 

Except Demandred.

 

 

I do hope what ever he is up to is going to be pulled off very well in AMoL.

[MasterAblar]

Even though I want Demandred to do something (and something terribly evil at that), I find his mystery to be kind of exciting. In the prologue to TGS, I just loved how Graendal was calculating what all the Forsaken were up to: Mesaana in the White Tower, Moridin being Moridin, Aran'gar with the rebel Aes Sedai, Cyndane and Moghedian flocking about to Moridin's every fancy, and Semirhage in the Seanchan high command. But then this line about Demandred made me crack a smile:

 

She was confident she knew the plans of every one of the remaining seven Chosen.

 

Except Demandred.

 

 

I do hope what ever he is up to is going to be pulled off very well in AMoL.

 

Absolutely. People seem to dislike the fact that Demandred apparently hasn't done anything yet, but I love that mystery that surrounds him. All he has to do is be as great as the long wait demands.

 

Personally my hope is that he kills Rand. I love Rand but I think it would be great if LTT's rival finaly bested him. And not a fake either. The real thing. Plus I want to see Demandred laugh.

[Sid]

Taim doesn't smile when he's oogling Elayne?

 

That's not a smile, that's a leer. There's always mentions of how he "almost smiles" or "half-smiles". I think there might be something wrong with his mouth. I wish him luck though, I'm sure he'll succeed eventually.

He has succeeded already.

"You think I can't teach them as well as you?" Rand's voice was soft, the whisper of a blade sliding in its sheath.

"I think the Lord Dragon is too busy for teaching," Taim replied smoothly, yet the anger smell rose again. "Too important. Take men who need the least of it. I can choose the furthest along— "

"One," Rand cut in. "And I will choose." Taim smiled, spreading his hands in acquiescence, but the scent of frustration nearly overwhelmed anger. Again Rand pointed without looking. "Him." This time, he seemed surprised to find he was pointing directly at a man in his middle years sitting atop an upturned cask on the other side of the wagon circle, paying no attention to the gathering around Rand. Instead, elbow on his knee and chin propped on his hand, he was frowning at the Aes Sedai prisoners. The sword and Dragon glittered on the high collar of his black coat. "What is his name, Taim?"

"Dashiva," Taim said slowly, studying Rand. He smelled even more surprised than Rand did, and irritated, too. "Corlan Dashiva. From a farm in the Black Hills."

"He will do," Rand said, but he did not sound sure himself.

ACOS ch 2 'The Butcher's Yard' (Perrin's PoV)

[Mr Ares]

On the other hand, by questioning his identity, he is forced to provide evidence to prove he really is Taim - which he does.

 

Do you often have to force people you've met before to prove their identity like Bashere did? Even if they shave? Wouldn't the more realistic scenario be Bashere simply recognizing him like everybody else does with every other character they've met before and then come in contact with?

 

Moreover (i dont have the passage in front of me) Bashere still looked doubtful after Taim said his piece, and Rand thought something along the lines of 'is this or isn't this Taim'. This is the huge problem I have- if Jordan had said that he intentionally made it mysterious just to raise questions with readers, I wouldn't bat an eyelash. But he's saying he didn't do that and had no idea of obvious a suggestion he was making. That's just really tough to believe.

No, he's saying he didn't spot he was setting up for Taimandred - raising suspicions is one thing, raising suspicions about Taimandred is something else. He set up a mystery and people came up with an answer he wasn't expecting. As for the appearance, remember it was more than just the beard - he'd had a difficult journey. We don't know how well Bashere and Taim knew each other. Being faced with someone you only sort of know (maybe you've only seen him at a distance) who now looks rather different could easily throw you - which gives the author the excuse he needs to provide proof that Taim is who he says he is. We know Taim is mysterious, but we can also now be pretty damn sure he really is Taim. All doubts are forgotten by the characters after that point.

 

Thus this serves as evidence against Taim being an imposter (and might well have been included for that very reason).

It might, I'll give you that, but recall how prepared Aran'gar was for her role. It's naive to the extreme to expect Demandred to fail such a casual inspection. Hence, I disagree. The exchange might've served to ease Rand's suspicions, but not the readers'.

If Demandred was as prepared for his role as Aran'gar, he would surely think to disguise himself so he actually looks like the person he's meant to be. This exchange simply increases the questions Taimandred raises. After all, why doesn't he look like Taim? How does he know something that wouldn't be common knowledge? Remove that exchange and you still have the suspicious stuff - not smiling, so-called Aiel, etc., but you remove the parts that speak against impersonation. You still raise readers suspicions, still give the indications that this man might just be Demandred in disguise without including the evidence against.

 

Think of it like this: if we run the scene through two times, one with Bashere recognising Taim on sight, Taim not feeling the need to prove his identity, and as it is in the books. In both, the book gives us some points that indicate there is something a bit odd about this Taim guy. Is he, perhaps, one of the Chosen in disguise? However, in the book as written, we come to the obvious point: if this is a Chosen in disguise, it is a Chosen in a crap disguise. And yet he has clearly done his homework, what with his knowledge of events surrounding his attempted assassination by Bashere's men. Curious. Can they really do no better? Can they not provide someone who is actually capable of looking like the person he's meant to look like? No, this scene speaks against Taim being an imposter, not for it. Taim is Taim, mysteries and all, becomes the simplest explanation.

[True Source Creator]

The more I think on Demandred, I begin to believe he must be at this Isle of Madness (I think that's what it's called). There are people who can channel there, and Demandred told Moridin his army is prepared. Graendal observed the only armies on the move were those of the Borderlanders, but I don't think Jordan would cop out with Demandred's identity as being that simple that Graendal's puzzling it out already. Plus, Demandred is supposed to do something great (well, terribly great) in AMoL, and an army of madmen channeling for the Dark One would be something big, if they wipe out the Asha'man.

[Suttree]

Sure this has been mentioned before but rereading tPoD and came across this...

 

tPoD "New Alliances"

 

if that message, delivered by Alsalam's close cousin, supposedly coming from the King himself and with Gray Men trying to stop it, did not satisfy the Great Lord's command to increase chaos, nothing would, short of balefire"

 

More evidence for the whole end of LoC, Demy "Have I not done well, Great Lord?"/balescream theory?

[True Source Creator]

I just realized that Demandred will probably be the only Forsaken not enslaved by Moridin at this point. Well, I only just got to the part in ToM where poor Mesaana's mind went messy, but I assume from things I've heard and from what Moridin warned Graendal that Graendal will be punished for failing [again]. With Moghedian and Cyndane already mindtrapped by Moridin, and with Graendal possibly facing a similar fate for yet another failure, that leaves only Demandred out on his own. He could still become Nae'blis, which would certainly fulfill Sanderson's claim that he does something terrible in A Memory of Light.

 

...But I doubt that he does become Nae'blis. I'm quite confident it was always going to be Moridin/Ishamael and always will be. Demandred and the other Chosen are kidding themselves if they seriously think the Dark One will favor them over Ishamael/Moridin.