the foxhead medallion

[DigitalSoul]

How usefull is it? can it proect from, say a fireball? Or does it only protect from weaves of air?

[Durinax]

it protects from all direct weaves.

 

the only one I can think of that it doesnt protect from that it seems like ti should is lightning, but thats because the weave just sparks it

[DigitalSoul]

it protects from all direct weaves.

 

the only one I can think of that it doesnt protect from that it seems like ti should is lightning, but thats because the weave just sparks it

 

rolling earth or whatever its called?

[Aliriel]

As stated it only protects from direct weaves, so the likes of Lightning, Fireballs, Walls of Rolling Earth and Fire and in the unlikily (hopefully) case, Deathgates being channeled at Mat would still affect him as they are the results of weaves that aren't actually directed at him.

Yes, for all of those out there who will argue about Fireballs, they are a result. The weave creates the ball, what the weaver does after the ball is formed is entirly up to them.

 

A.

[DigitalSoul]

As stated it only protects from direct weaves, so the likes of Lightning, Fireballs, Walls of Rolling Earth and Fire and in the unlikily (hopefully) case, Deathgates being channeled at Mat would still affect him as they are the results of weaves that aren't actually directed at him.

Yes, for all of those out there who will argue about Fireballs, they are a result. The weave creates the ball, what the weaver does after the ball is formed is entirly up to them.

 

A.

 

So it really only protects against things like, holding the wearer with air, healing and compulsion

[Aliriel]

As stated it only protects from direct weaves, so the likes of Lightning, Fireballs, Walls of Rolling Earth and Fire and in the unlikily (hopefully) case, Deathgates being channeled at Mat would still affect him as they are the results of weaves that aren't actually directed at him.

Yes, for all of those out there who will argue about Fireballs, they are a result. The weave creates the ball, what the weaver does after the ball is formed is entirly up to them.

 

A.

 

So it really only protects against things like, holding the wearer with air, healing and compulsion

 

Or anything that deals with direct bodily contact with the power... Think Graendal's little mind manipulatins (other than compulsion), Semi's torture techniques, even cleaning the mud off his jacket.

If it's direct, the Foxhead blocks it.

 

Atleast thats how I've understood it.

 

A.

[Terez]

The 'indirect' thing makes more sense for lightning than it does for fireballs. But the copies Elayne made don't protect against strong weaves.

[Aliriel]

The 'indirect' thing makes more sense for lightning than it does for fireballs. But the copies Elayne made don't protect against strong weaves.

 

True, but for most people, I believe they'll think of the origional not the copies.

 

And just so we're clear, with Fireball's, how do you see them working? My view is they are created by the weave, the throwing of them and the resulting blast/burning/lightshow is a side effect of the fire itself, not the power used to crate the fire.

 

A.

[Terez]

The 'indirect' thing makes more sense for lightning than it does for fireballs. But the copies Elayne made don't protect against strong weaves.

 

True, but for most people, I believe they'll think of the origional not the copies.

 

And just so we're clear, with Fireball's, how do you see them working? My view is they are created by the weave, the throwing of them and the resulting blast/burning/lightshow is a side effect of the fire itself, not the power used to crate the fire.

 

A.

The fireballs aren't actually thrown - the throwing motion is just an unnecessary motion that most Aes Sedai learn along with the weave (which then limits their ability to make the weave work any other way). With lightning, the weaves are directed at the sky and made to create the conditions necessary for lightning, but I tend to think that the fireballs are actually composed of weaves. No way to tell for sure, but I think the medallion would protect against them.

[Aliriel]

The 'indirect' thing makes more sense for lightning than it does for fireballs. But the copies Elayne made don't protect against strong weaves.

 

True, but for most people, I believe they'll think of the origional not the copies.

 

And just so we're clear, with Fireball's, how do you see them working? My view is they are created by the weave, the throwing of them and the resulting blast/burning/lightshow is a side effect of the fire itself, not the power used to crate the fire.

 

A.

The fireballs aren't actually thrown - the throwing motion is just an unnecessary motion that most Aes Sedai learn along with the weave (which then limits their ability to make the weave work any other way). With lightning, the weaves are directed at the sky and made to create the conditions necessary for lightning, but I tend to think that the fireballs are actually composed of weaves. No way to tell for sure, but I think the medallion would protect against them.

 

That's fair enough then, different view on the machanics of the channeling, no big deal.

And I knew that the throwing motion isn't an actual part of the weave, was going to mention it in the ealier post but decided to leave it out because I believed how the AS form the weave has little to do with the the context of the post.

 

A.

[Jimvzyl]

I think Terez is right, the description of how the weaves unravel upon contact with Mat when he wears the medalllion indicates this.

Think about it this way.

Lightning is natural, the weave to create lightning probably just condenses particles, causing friction to create lightning which itself is not a weave. A fireball is unnatural - it is most likely comprised of Fire and Air, both of which would unravel, much like a deathgate would probably unravel.

 

Hopefully we'll see Mat tear through some dreadlords in AMoL :)

[Aliriel]

I think Terez is right, the description of how the weaves unravel upon contact with Mat when he wears the medalllion indicates this.

Think about it this way.

Lightning is natural, the weave to create lightning probably just condenses particles, causing friction to create lightning which itself is not a weave. A fireball is unnatural - it is most likely comprised of Fire and Air, both of which would unravel, much like a deathgate would probably unravel.

 

Hopefully we'll see Mat tear through some dreadlords in AMoL :)

 

It all depends on what your view of the machanics of the weave are, As Terez and you have stated, you believe them to still be active after formation where as I believe them to be inactive after forming the Fireball. We all have our different views, no biggy.

 

A.

[Terez]

I think Terez is right, the description of how the weaves unravel upon contact with Mat when he wears the medalllion indicates this.

Think about it this way.

Lightning is natural, the weave to create lightning probably just condenses particles, causing friction to create lightning which itself is not a weave. A fireball is unnatural - it is most likely comprised of Fire and Air, both of which would unravel, much like a deathgate would probably unravel.

If the edge of a deathgate touched Mat it would probably unravel, but otherwise it wouldn't. He can go through a gateway. I think the Deathgates are designed only to work on Shadowspawn - they mostly work not by cutting things up, but by actually transporting them (which kills the constructs like Trollocs and Fades instantly).

[Aliriel]

I think Terez is right, the description of how the weaves unravel upon contact with Mat when he wears the medalllion indicates this.

Think about it this way.

Lightning is natural, the weave to create lightning probably just condenses particles, causing friction to create lightning which itself is not a weave. A fireball is unnatural - it is most likely comprised of Fire and Air, both of which would unravel, much like a deathgate would probably unravel.

If the edge of a deathgate touched Mat it would probably unravel, but otherwise it wouldn't. He can go through a gateway. I think the Deathgates are designed only to work on Shadowspawn - they mostly work not by cutting things up, but by actually transporting them (which kills the constructs like Trollocs and Fades instantly).

 

Come to think about it, yeah, very true. Deathgates was probally a really bad example to use.

 

A.

[brolie]

yeah i think they talk about that somewhere in CoT or KoD where it is a direct thing, like, someone could use the OP to pick up a paddle and hit him with the paddle for example, but they could hit him with the flows of air like they tend to like to do

[Terez]

That was first discovered by Adeleas in LOC when she used the Power to throw a pile of manure at his back.

[b3arz3rg3r]

They protect from all direct weaves. Whether lightning or fire or whatever. Any weave which comes into direct contact with it gets unravelled. However it does not protect from secondary effects like it has been shown in the books. The medallion can protect you from exploding yourself, but it doesn't protect you from the explosion happening under your feet or from the lightning striking right next to you, which is what happened to Mat in Caemlyn I believe.

 

Also since they make one unable to even feel the one power and they also negate the effects of the a'dam a medallion is the perfect gift for Mat to give Tuon.

[Zentari]

They protect from all direct weaves. Whether lightning or fire or whatever. Any weave which comes into direct contact with it gets unravelled. However it does not protect from secondary effects like it has been shown in the books. The medallion can protect you from exploding yourself, but it doesn't protect you from the explosion which happeing under your feet or from the lightning striking right next to you, which is what happened to Mat in Caemlyn I believe.

 

This.If it works anything like spell resistance/antimagic in DnD, it will protect from direct threads , while doing nothing for outside factors.For example a fireball would do nothing while picking a rock the size of his head and slamming him with it will leave him dead.

[rand4747]

The fireball would unravel when it reaches you but that won't stop you being horribly burnt by the heat, the heat doesn't just vanish when the fireball vanishes.

[b3arz3rg3r]

The fireball would unravel when it reaches you but that won't stop you being horribly burnt by the heat, the heat doesn't just vanish when the fireball vanishes.

 

I think it would stop you from being horribly burnt. As fast as the the fireball moves there wouldn't be any time for it to cause you much damage before it hits you. And once it unravels it's as if there never had been a fireball.

[herid]

As stated it only protects from direct weaves, so the likes of Lightning, Fireballs, Walls of Rolling Earth and Fire and in the unlikily (hopefully) case, Deathgates being channeled at Mat would still affect him as they are the results of weaves that aren't actually directed at him.

Yes, for all of those out there who will argue about Fireballs, they are a result. The weave creates the ball, what the weaver does after the ball is formed is entirly up to them.

 

A.

I'm quite sure that deathgates would unravel if they touch Mat while he is wearing the foxhead as they are direct weaves. Fireballs too. we have a direct quote for that one:

 

Abruptly the light of saidar appeared around the woman, but the ready ball of fire streaked from Cyndane’s hand, small enough to escape detection she hoped, but enough to burn a hole through this woman who—

 

Just as it reached the woman, almost close enough to singe her garments, the web of Fire unraveled. The woman did not do anything; the net simply came apart! Cyndane had never heard of a ter’angreal that would break a web, but it must be that.

-WH, Ch 35

Alivia was wearing all of Nynaeve's ter'angreal one of which is similar to Mat's foxhead so the effect should be pretty much the same.

[Aliriel]

As stated it only protects from direct weaves, so the likes of Lightning, Fireballs, Walls of Rolling Earth and Fire and in the unlikily (hopefully) case, Deathgates being channeled at Mat would still affect him as they are the results of weaves that aren't actually directed at him.

Yes, for all of those out there who will argue about Fireballs, they are a result. The weave creates the ball, what the weaver does after the ball is formed is entirly up to them.

 

A.

I'm quite sure that deathgates would unravel if they touch Mat while he is wearing the foxhead as they are direct weaves. Fireballs too. we have a direct quote for that one:

 

Abruptly the light of saidar appeared around the woman, but the ready ball of fire streaked from Cyndane’s hand, small enough to escape detection she hoped, but enough to burn a hole through this woman who—

 

Just as it reached the woman, almost close enough to singe her garments, the web of Fire unraveled. The woman did not do anything; the net simply came apart! Cyndane had never heard of a ter’angreal that would break a web, but it must be that.

-WH, Ch 35

Alivia was wearing all of Nynaeve's ter'angreal one of which is similar to Mat's foxhead so the effect should be pretty much the same.

 

In regards to the Deathgates, I've already admitted they were a bad choice for an example.

As for Nyneave's jewellery which Alivia is wearing, it is similar, but it's not the Foxhead, as far as we know it could only protect from physical "magical" harm as caused by a Fireball but leave the wearer open to other weaves like Healing, being bound or some such. But yes, I agree the effect show is similar to the description of how the Foxhead works.

 

A.

[herid]

 

 

As for Nyneave's jewellery which Alivia is wearing, it is similar, but it's not the Foxhead, as far as we know it could only protect from physical "magical" harm as caused by a Fireball but leave the wearer open to other weaves like Healing, being bound or some such. But yes, I agree the effect show is similar to the description of how the Foxhead works.

 

A.

without debating how different Mat's and Nynaeve's ter'angreal might be,

I guess my main point should have been that a fireball is a direct weave as that quote shows and Mat's foxhead unravels all those.

[rand4747]

The fireball would unravel when it reaches you but that won't stop you being horribly burnt by the heat, the heat doesn't just vanish when the fireball vanishes.

 

I think it would stop you from being horribly burnt. As fast as the the fireball moves there wouldn't be any time for it to cause you much damage before it hits you. And once it unravels it's as if there never had been a fireball.

 

 

The heat remains though it will quickly vanish its still there to burn. you hold a flame near your hand you can feel the heat, it doesn't have to touch you for the heat to reach you. put your hand above and you can feel the hot air, take it away and you will still get warm air for a short while. in the case of a fireball it will get right up to you before it goes and so the heat will be insanely high before it actually touches and then vanishes.

 

 

 

Ok about the proximity thing it seems it unravels stuff before it reaches you. Just read the stuff about Nynaeves ter angreal but it may be possible still to create a large enough fire that it will burn you even when outside the range to unravel it.

[Zentari]

Ok about the proximity thing it seems it unravels stuff before it reaches you. Just read the stuff about Nynaeves ter angreal but it may be possible still to create a large enough fire that it will burn you even when outside the range to unravel it.

Well, where there is a will there is a way. A strong enough channeler could trap you in a furnace without getting his weaves close enough to be unraveled while slowly cooking you...