The new age will no longer have Channelers

[jshahmiran]

This is just pure speculation on my part, but is it possible that there will no longer be channelers. Robert Jordan has stated that many of the stories that Thom mentions came from before the age of legends are events that have happened here on earth like lenn's flight to the moon. If we are to run the course that the wheel of time is every spinning and repeating cycles, could one speculate that Channeling might for the next age be burned out of people as science becomes dominate? We see that science is on the rise in Randland for example Gun Powder, cannons, Steam engines, etc. Just a thought I was wondering what others think of this?

[herid]

I just posted on this in another thread, but here it is again for your convenience.

 

 

The OP will not disappear after the LB. Even discounting Avi's visions which mostly will not come about anyway, there is a vision of Min in Bandar Eban:

 

That woman there—the one sulking in the shadows—she will be trained by the White Tower and become Aes Sedai. I can see the Flame of Tar Valon beside her, and I know what it means.

-ToM, Ch 25

 

She later even clarifies the vision and says that the woman will learn to channel. There is no time at all to do that before the LB.

 

The woman Min had noted earlier—the one she was certain could learn to channel—came over to speak with Rand.

-ToM, Ch 25

 

Min's viewings always come true which means that there will be channeling after the LB.

[jshahmiran]

I just posted on this in another thread, but here it is again for your convenience.

 

 

The OP will not disappear after the LB. Even discounting Avi's visions which mostly will not come about anyway, there is a vision of Min in Bandar Eban:

 

That woman there—the one sulking in the shadows—she will be trained by the White Tower and become Aes Sedai. I can see the Flame of Tar Valon beside her, and I know what it means.

-ToM, Ch 25

 

She later even clarifies the vision and says that the woman will learn to channel. There is no time at all to do that before the LB.

 

The woman Min had noted earlier—the one she was certain could learn to channel—came over to speak with Rand.

-ToM, Ch 25

 

Min's viewings always come true which means that there will be channeling after the LB.

 

The viewing can come true, but who is to say how long it will take for the humans to lose the ability to channel. The taint took years to affect most male Channalers. As For Avi's vision there are signs in it that show science is gaining an upper hand for example the train being built in the waste.

[WhiskyJack]

This new age probably will see channeling ability die and pave the way for technology to emerge.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

ya, i think eventually channeling will disappear while technology becomes preeminent. and then it'll roll back around. unless we stop the whole wheel thing with linear time.

 

the OP won't cease to exist, because it's the power of creation, but the knowledge, or ability, of humans to channel it may.

 

dunno if this is the age that sees it go, though.

[Mystica]

and I just replied to Herid's post in the other thread too. LOL this is what I think may happen.

 

I agree with Herid that the OP won't dissapear at the end of this age. In fact, I think that it will take at least another full age for the Wheel to come to teh point where the OP and channelers will fade off in to non-existance. This is after all only the third Age. There's 5 more Ages to go before the next Age of Legend and even if channeling is re-discovered in the 1st Age (the one previous to the Age of Legends), that still leaves 4 full ages to fill.

 

Personally I think the next age will see an integration of the use of the OP in every day life, but not to the extent that it was in the Age of Legends. In my view, channeling will become accepted and commonplace in all cultures (including the Seanchan) which will then lead to the more mundane conflicts again: who should rule who and have what power over who. This (again, eventually) may then lead to the rise of religious groups that will become more and more self-important and convinced of their own supremecy over others and resent the power channelers have which will then lead to a return to calling them Witches (and Warlocks for the men) with a WOT-version of the Spanish Inquisition. The use of canons and other man-made, non-OP related, weapons will bring the non-channelers close to or even beyond the capacity of channelers, forcing them in to hiding and eventually culling out the ability all together. Until the existance of the One Power and channelers will be completely whiped from memory (similar to the destruction of monuments and buildings and books that happened here in our world, to fully eradicate cultures or beliefs that the ruling class wanted to see eliminated), preparing the world for the re-discovery of the OP in the 1st or 2nd Age again.

 

It's a shortened version of what I have in mind, but it shows the butt of the idea.

[Hael Me]

The One Power is the force that drives The Wheel of Time. Ergo, as long as the Wheel turns the One Power must be there.

 

Channelers on the other hand, they're not "necessary". Since only 2-3 percent of the current population of Randland are capable of using the One Power, they're a minority. And channelers born with the spark are a minority within the minority.

 

And the numbers have dwindled - the Aes Sedai, the Red Ajah in particular, have culled the human race. The lifestyle of the Aes Sedai is another disadvantage - marriages among Aes Sedai are not common and has anyone heard of an Aes Sedai giving birth? The Seanchan kill or keep their channelers collared and doesn't allow the Damane to marry. Things are done differently among the Aiel and in Shara, where the breeding of channelers is standard practice.

 

The Last Battle is imminent. The Channelers of Randland will be in the hottest fighting for sure. The forces of the Light will win, I think, and thus the Dreadlords will be rooted out. There goes a bunch of channelers! But the price will be high. Casualties among the Aes Sedai and the Asha'man - and probably Damane and Ayyad, too - are bound to be numerous. If something big isn't done after the Last Battle the situation for channelers will be dire...

 

But I can see a possible future where the numbers continue to dwindle, too. Technology is something that almost everyone can use. Channelers will become more irrelevant, perhaps. Which is ominous for them.

 

We have the Randland legend of the Tamyrlin, who was said to be the first person to learn to tap into the source and channel. Maybe some future age will see the rise of a new Tamyrlin?

[Mystica]

*nods* the OP will remain to exist, it's just that knowledge of it's existance will be lost. hence the re-discovery of it in the next 1st or 2nd Age (instead of the re-creation of the OP, which would be needed if it had dissapeared).

 

With Egwene at the head of the WT and the WT and BT getting more and more interconnected (bonding each other and such more), I've always had a feelign that the WT may adopt the Aiel way of handling a Maiden's child with AS being allowed to have children, but then giving those to others to raise (for instance, the Kin). With AS being allowed to retire in to the Kin (as Maidens are allowed to lay down their spear, in a way 'retire' from being a Maiden), this may very well be an option to counter the culling from the past over time.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

but they live a real long time, have started getting together, and may have a propensity for multiple births. so you never know. a couple of quiverful AS could ratchet that percentage right up in a century or two.

 

edit ( this was in resp to hael me's post. i got ninja'ed)

[Mystica]

sorry lol

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

(not your fault i type slow )

[Hael Me]

but they live a real long time, have started getting together, and may have a propensity for multiple births. so you never know. a couple of quiverful AS could ratchet that percentage right up in a century or two.

 

edit ( this was in resp to hael me's post. i got ninja'ed)

 

Yes, that's a real possibility. It could happen. But then changes are necessary - we have seen the beginning of it in The White Tower and in the Kin, but the changes must be radical and swift, I think.

 

One Myrelle who doesn't practice safe sex could spawn a lot of children, that's for sure! It is rumoured that she has married all of her Warders!

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

But then changes are necessary - we have seen the beginning of it in The White Tower and in the Kin, but the changes must be radical and swift, I think.

 

there are a lot of things we don't know about the end/beginning of an age, but i'm betting radical change is a given.

[Hael Me]

*nods* the OP will remain to exist, it's just that knowledge of it's existance will be lost. hence the re-discovery of it in the next 1st or 2nd Age (instead of the re-creation of the OP, which would be needed if it had dissapeared).

 

With Egwene at the head of the WT and the WT and BT getting more and more interconnected (bonding each other and such more), I've always had a feelign that the WT may adopt the Aiel way of handling a Maiden's child with AS being allowed to have children, but then giving those to others to raise (for instance, the Kin). With AS being allowed to retire in to the Kin (as Maidens are allowed to lay down their spear, in a way 'retire' from being a Maiden), this may very well be an option to counter the culling from the past over time.

 

There are of course those theories about the creation of linear time. A new Breaking that is even bigger than the one that ended the Age of Legends... I don't believe this will happen, and if it does anyway, this hypothetical "Arrow of Time" would need a force that kept it going forward, too.

[Mystica]

I don't know where that idea of linear time comes from. Didn't RJ himself specifically say that time was circular in WOT? And that that wouldn't change. So that line of thought has always somewhat confused me

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

he said something in an interview about linear time being the greatest gift the greeks, i think, gave us. i'm mangling it, a quote person will correct me. but i think that's where it comes from.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

http://www.cnn.com/chat/transcripts/2000/12/12/jordan/

 

Robert Jordan chats about his 'Wheel of Time' series

December 12, 2000

1:00 p.m. EST

 

Chat moderator: How did you develop the idea for the Wheel of Time saga, and where did you get the name?

 

Robert Jordan: The name comes out of Hindu mythology, where there is a belief that time is a wheel. Many older cultures believe that time is cyclic, that it repeats. In fact, I believe the best thing the ancient Greeks gave us was (the idea) that time was linear and change was possible.

[Hael Me]

But then changes are necessary - we have seen the beginning of it in The White Tower and in the Kin, but the changes must be radical and swift, I think.

 

there are a lot of things we don't know about the end/beginning of an age, but i'm betting radical change is a given.

 

Haha, absolutely! A lot of cleaning up to do after The Last Battle, I bet. Janitors, masons and carpenters will have the time of their lives The Last Breaking led to the total collapse of civilization. If Team Light wins this time, I don't think we'll see that, but you never know...

[Hael Me]

Cindy: So RJ wasn't fond of the concept of cyclic time even though he created The Wheel of Time? Well, there's that...

 

Mystica: Well, I've got a feeling that the theories of the creation of linear time in Randland mostly popped up after some people read the chapter in TGS - don't remember the name, too lazy to look it up - where Rand visits Moridin's dream and states that he wants to slay the Dark One in stead of just sealing him up. The Dark One is another constant in that universe, according to the scholars of Randland.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

we're going to get a RAFO from beyond at this point. . .

[rand4747]

i think, this is going from the vision, after the seanchan destroy the black and white towers, they kill all channelers instead of capturing them, once they found out all suldam can learn to channel they cant let that happen so they will exterminate everyone they find capable of channeling or who can channel, in the effort to get rid of it entirely. Note by that time Tuon/Fortuona is dead, All the other channelers are dead. This is just speculation now but Tuon may have been convinced about the Randland peoples point of view on channeling but someone hadn't agreed and she was overthrown and thats when the genocide of channelers began.

[Jon Paul]

I believe that channelling will continue long after the Last Battle but there will not be much room for scientific (One Power) advancements like in the Age of Legends. Namely because a) the world will still be racked with war and b) non-channelling society must advance on its own before the One Power can refine it all. Eventually channellers will die out however.

[herid]

I just posted on this in another thread, but here it is again for your convenience.

 

 

The OP will not disappear after the LB. Even discounting Avi's visions which mostly will not come about anyway, there is a vision of Min in Bandar Eban:

 

That woman there—the one sulking in the shadows—she will be trained by the White Tower and become Aes Sedai. I can see the Flame of Tar Valon beside her, and I know what it means.

-ToM, Ch 25

 

She later even clarifies the vision and says that the woman will learn to channel. There is no time at all to do that before the LB.

 

The woman Min had noted earlier—the one she was certain could learn to channel—came over to speak with Rand.

-ToM, Ch 25

 

Min's viewings always come true which means that there will be channeling after the LB.

 

The viewing can come true, but who is to say how long it will take for the humans to lose the ability to channel. The taint took years to affect most male Channalers. As For Avi's vision there are signs in it that show science is gaining an upper hand for example the train being built in the waste.

oh, so the modified idea now is that the channeling ability will disappear but slowly because of some cataclysmic thing during the sealing of the Bore?

sorry, but that's completely implausible too. first, there should be some natural explanation for something like this given the rules of WoT universe. we've seen none so far and I can't think of any myself. More importantly, something like this can not be fit into the story in any reasonable way. How would the readers and the characters be informed of something like that? the book will end shortly after the LB is over. how would the readers or the characters learn that the channeling ability is slowing disappearing? Lastly, A LOT of time was spent in recent books setting up various future power structures for channelers: Egwene and the Hall in the White Tower, The Kin vs. Aes Sedai, the pact between the White Tower, the Aiel and the Sea Folk. It would make no sense to do so if channeling was going to disappear. Especially considering that Sanderson can not afford to put filler stuff in the books at all. he has difficulties enough with finishing on time as it is - there was some apparently serious talk at JordanCon that aMoL might be split in two.

All in all, there are plenty of indications that the next Age will be a golden age of channeling, not one where channeling will disappear. That might happen (RJ said so) but not in the next Age.

[Mystica]

Cindy: So RJ wasn't fond of the concept of cyclic time even though he created The Wheel of Time? Well, there's that...

 

Mystica: Well, I've got a feeling that the theories of the creation of linear time in Randland mostly popped up after some people read the chapter in TGS - don't remember the name, too lazy to look it up - where Rand visits Moridin's dream and states that he wants to slay the Dark One in stead of just sealing him up. The Dark One is another constant in that universe, according to the scholars of Randland.

 

Sorry, been out of commission for two days.

 

Rand said that to Moridin before he had his enlightenment on Dragonmount, though. So he was still being heavily influenced by that dark energy (as I call it). Later, after VOG, he seems to returns to the idea of sealing the bore rather than destroying the DO. Besides, I think that it would be impossible for him to destroy the DO all together, given that the Creator himself only imprisoned him. Which seems to indicate that not even the Creator 'could' destroy the DO. I doubt that if the Creator couldn't do it, Rand could, no matter how much of a messiah he turns out to be.

 

Unless....... *random thought* The Creator can't destroy, period. Being the 'creator' it stands to reason that he only has the power to create, not to destroy. Destruction being the DO's domain. And as people have deducted that the DO can't create (only corrupt what has been created), it may be that the creator in turn can't destroy. Hmmmmm....... food for thought.

[Aiyen kin Leary]

Also, channeling and science aren't mutually exclusive. The Age of Legends had both, why not the Fourth Age?