Questions about the Black Ajah

[Daruya]

I’ve been pondering something for awhile. If it’s already been covered, please point me to the appropriate thread and I’ll go from there. :D If not, here’s the perfect opportunity to discuss it.

 

Let’s look at Liandrin. We all know she’s Black Ajah (BA). In one of the earlier books, we learned that she pledged to the Dark before she even went to the White Tower. If that is the case, how did it happen that she was raised? When an Accepted is raised and swears on the Oath Rod, isn’t it common to forswear all other oaths before taking the Three Oaths (or was that something only the Searchers in the WT did in their search and questioning)? Also, when she swears to speak no word that is not true, how was she also able to swear that she’d not use the power except in defense of her own life or that of her warder or another sister?

 

Remember Talene, when she was forced to forswear all oaths that bound her – the loosening of her oaths (to the Dark) certainly caused quite an intense reaction. If Liandrin had had the same reaction upon forswearing all oaths, wouldn’t that have occasioned comment by the sisters present when she was raised?

 

So my question is, how can a woman be raised to Aes Sedai if she is already a Darkfriend? It doesn’t seem like it should be possible!

 

My next question will probably deal with “Is Therava a darkfriend? Why or why not?â€

[Gentled Ben]

In the prologue to TGH, we see the darkfriends grovelling in fear at one point, and at that point, they instinctively begin reciting their oaths to the DO as something of a charm against their fear. The oaths basically boil down to something like "I swear to serve the Great Lord of the Dark with the last shred of my very soul, no matter what." Nothing in that would preclude a DF from swearing the three Aes Sedai oaths, esp. when she might reasonably assume that there must be some way to get around them, as surely, she can't be the only DF Aes Sedai. After all, Liandrin sought out the Black Ajah; she had to have at least suspected it's existence in order to have a basis for her search. If, in her mind, there were surely other DF Aes Sedai, and all Aes Sedai take the three oaths, then it must be okay for a DF Aes Sedai to take them, too. I doubt if she even thought twice about it.

 

She's able to speak no word that is not true and still take the rest of the oaths because she can twist it in her mind by thinking, "for now," or some such. We've seen how Aes Sedai can manipulate the facts in order to find a loophole through which they can squeeze. In fact, the "truth" oath seems to be the easiest one for them to skirt.

 

Liandrin wouldn't have to foreswear any oaths until she swore her oaths to the Black Ajah, and they would expect and be used to intense reactions. In NS, there is an example of the oath swearing ceremony when Suian and Moiraine are raised. There is no foreswearing of anything; that was a construct of the Black Ajah hunters, as it was apparent to them that a Black sister could lie. They wanted to clean the slate, so to speak, and re-instill the first oath in any sister they interrogated. Otherwise, they might just chase their tails and not even know it.

[icspots]

Remember that the oath rod only binds a woman who can channel, so it's not like all darkfriends swear on it. Only Aes Sedai who are brought into the black ajah swear the new trinity of oaths (though we don't know what those oaths are), and they're the only ones that have to have the real 3 oaths removed

 

Also like you said the foreswearing of all oaths at once was what the hunters did to Talene as they didn't know what the BA's oaths were, and didn't want her to die if something they told her to do conflicted with an oath they didn't know about and kill her before they figured out the problem.

[RobertAlexWillis]

isn’t it common to forswear all other oaths before taking the Three Oaths (or was that something only the Searchers in the WT did in their search and questioning)?

 

No. It is, as you asked, something that the Searchers did. Remember, before being raised as Aes Sedai, a person is assumed not to have had access to the Oath Rod, so there is not reason to unbind them. In fact, if I remember correctly, some Aes Sedai treat the Oath Rod's ability to unbind as something of a surprise ... I will go back and look for quote to support that.

[grump]

Maybe the simple answer is that the black ladies have an oath rod remember the one in the tower is numbered 2 or 3 and the one galina keeps trying to get hold of is 132? and the last sentance in the oaths is not I am not a darkfriend. When the blacks are captured and questioned the subject just never seems to come up.

[Luckers]

I'm not sure i understand. Darkfriends can swear the Three Oaths right as water, later, when they join the Black Ajah, they unswear those oaths and swear three new ones.

 

There is no need for a darkfriend to foreswear her oaths to the dark one before taking the Three Oaths because those oaths are just normal oaths... sworn with words, not with the one power. Even if they were there would be no confliction. The only problem would be if immediately after swearing they were asked if they were a darkfriend, which we know does not happen.

 

Finally since we see that it is not terribly hard for a sitter to gain access to the oath rod them foresworing the Three Oaths and re-swearing the Black Ajah oaths is not hard.

[grump]

The question has always been how are the blacks able to lie and kill after having taken the oaths. The simple answer is using an oath rod to unbind. I suppose though that like the protection to DO gives the male forsaken from the taint that a certain level of oath to him might negate the 3 oaths. I just prefer the simplisity of the first way

[Luckers]

Well we do know that they have sworn the new three on the oath rod, whie they were doing that they could easily remove the first three.

 

It seems self-evident.

 

And no, the original poster spoke of Liandrins oaths which preceeded the Three as if they were bound on the oath rod and would have some influence on the swearing of the Three. That i dont understand.

[Daruya]

I think my assumption was (uh-oh, you know what happens when you assume something!) :shock: that the DO had his adherents swear on an oath rod. Obviously, I was the only one thinking that way. :oops: