nine moons theory

[spoke]

There is a prophecy of the dragon, that says that he shall bind the 9 moons.

 

Well, I am thinking that this is already happened. The fact that Tuon was the "Daughter of the 9 moons" was a diversion to throw us off the true path.

 

The standard pregnancy = 8.5 months (conception to birth - not date of last period to birth) or 266 days. However since twins tend to come a little bit earlier than normal pregnancies, we will assume 252 days.

On the same day that Rand was bonded to Elayne, she got pregnant. Lunar cycle is 28 days or after 9 lunar cycles, 252 days, so Elayne's babies and the bonding occurred at the same time, then he may have already been "bound to the 9 moons"

 

No seriously, to the real theory. Why Rand failed with Tuon. The prophecy states that he will bind the 9 moons, not the daughter of the 9 moons. So when he met with her, he could not bind her. She was not the 9 moons (aka The Empress may she live for ever). And now that she is Fortuona the Empress (may she live forever), she is also now the 9 moons, and Rand will meet with her and bind her to serve him. The binding will include the warder bonding but not from Rand to Fortuona, but from Mat to Fortuona, (Elayne will perform this as she knows how to do it - warder/sister bond knowledge), and Rand will Bind the 9 moons to serve him via Mat.

 

This also works because we know that Mat is Aemon , and Fortuona is Elderene who were the king and queen of Mantherene, who were bonded together. Otherwise Mat would not have been fated to marry anyone.

[randsc]

 

This also works because we know that Mat is Aemon , and Fortuona is Elderene who were the king and queen of Mantherene, who were bonded together. Otherwise Mat would not have been fated to marry anyone.

 

I won't comment on the rest, but this part is silly. We know no such thing.

[spoke]

 

This also works because we know that Mat is Aemon , and Fortuona is Elderene who were the king and queen of Mantherene, who were bonded together. Otherwise Mat would not have been fated to marry anyone.

 

I won't comment on the rest, but this part is silly. We know no such thing.

 

See Mat is Aemon

[yoniy0]

Yes, and we said the same there. There is no real proof for that theory.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

standard human pregnancy lasts 280 days or 40 weeks, conception to birth. you go through the 9th month, so it's really 10 4 week months.

 

um, you were kidding, though, weren't you?

 

sorry.

[yoniy0]

standard human pregnancy lasts 280 days or 40 weeks, conception to birth.

That's what I thought too, but then I Googled it (I know, it must be true if it's on the internet, right?) and discovered that it's 40 weeks from the beginning of the last cycle (approximately 2 weeks before conception, I believe). Presumably you know about this more than I do, but I've talked about it with several mothers and they didn't really had anything to contribute (except my own claims I was delivered after 42, so I guess it varies)...

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

standard human pregnancy lasts 280 days or 40 weeks, conception to birth.

That's what I thought too, but then I Googled it (I know, it must be true if it's on the internet, right?) and discovered that it's 40 weeks from the beginning of the last cycle (approximately 2 weeks before conception, I believe). Presumably you know about this more than I do, but I've talked about it with several mothers and they didn't really had anything to contribute (except my own claims I was delivered after 42, so I guess it varies)...

 

were you covered in red fuzz, too? my mom says i was 2 weeks late, and they had to drag me out sideways because i was holding on for dear life. kind of like how i went to school every morning, and how i go to work every day.

 

i've always heard 280 days, but the internet does give conflicting information. i deal with gestational age and prematurity quite a bit (in writing, not in person, thank heaven), and 40's the goal there, but maybe they mean from LMP, too. seems like an odd way to count, considering the variables, but i respect google.

 

it's probably because of those sneaky sperm (sorry, CC, i hate to abuse you) that hang around a couple weeks waiting for an available egg.

[yoniy0]

Ick

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

i find the whole process icky, so i'm not sure which part that was for.

 

but please use your mod superpowers to remove it if it offends.

 

as you know, i can never really tell.

[Zentari]

but i respect google.

Depends, it's always a good idea to get a couple of pages on a subject, just to be sure.

[theradave]

I am interested in the idea that differentiates the "Daughter of the Nine Moons" from a separate individual called "Nine Moons" (presumable, the Empress). As far as I can remember, while she claims the title, no where in the books is Tuon called anything but the "Daughter of the Nine Moons" while the prophecy clearly does not include "Daughter." If the theory proved true, I think this would be a clever twist to the story.

 

 

The sticky point to this idea, as I see it, is that the books never refer to the Empress (or anyone) as the "Nine Moons."

 

It seems logical that one of the Daughter of the Nine Moons' parents would hold a title containing a variation of "the Nine Moons" (like Empress of the Nine Moons, or some such). But, Daughter of the Nine Moons may be a noble title in and of itself, and not a reference to another noble's title. By example, consider the Andoran "First Prince of the Sword." That is a title in and of itself without reference to another's title. There is no "Second Prince of the Sword," "Queen of the Sword," etc.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

perhaps the nine moons referes to seanchan itself?

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

and perhaps the nine moons refers to the planets in the solar system, essentially making seanchan the whole universe, and tuon the daughter of the universe? or galaxy, if they still remember others. (cause pluto hadn't yet been dissed at the time of writing.)

[yoniy0]

The court of the Nine Moons is the Empress's court, and her heir the Daughter of the Nine Moons. I therefore believe we must take the Nine Moons as referencing either the Empress or the Empire which she represents/embodies. Either way, it makes no difference.

 

i find the whole process icky, so i'm not sure which part that was for.

[...]

but please use your mod superpowers to remove it if it offends.

Heavens no. The bit about the red fuzz was icky (but not terribly icky, if you know what I mean).

 

Depends, it's always a good idea to get a couple of pages on a subject, just to be sure.

I trust the CDC, and they put the average gestation for singletons in the US during 2005 at 38.9 weeks from LMP. Wikipedia says 40, which is a nice round number, probably based on the (basic) method used by physicians of adding 7 days plus 9 calendar months to date of LMP.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

The bit about the red fuzz was icky (but not terribly icky, if you know what I mean).

 

 

oh, yeah, i guess it could be. it's a late baby thing. it wears off, and then you're like a normal human instead of a peach.

 

 

I trust the CDC, and they put the average gestation for singletons in the US during 2005 at 38.9 weeks from LMP. Wikipedia says 40, which is a nice round number, probably based on the (basic) method used by physicians of adding 7 days plus 9 calendar months to date of LMP.

 

the CDC is probably lower because they factor in the increasing survival rates of premies.

[LemonPastie]

Using the LMP is quite sensible really, only in the very recent years have we had ultrasound to check the babies age, so there are only two events that could be used to count, and one of those may happen too frequently to figure out which individual event it was.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

what an odd turn. . .

 

i think modern testing will soon make it a moot point. they're getting very close to zero point detection.

[mb]

Not sure whether a warder bond would fulfill this prophecy.

 

The marriage was also in the Karaethon Cycle::

When the fox marries the raven, and the trumpets of battle are blown.

 

Both prophecies seem older than Aemon & Eldrene.

[OptimusPrime]

I dont believe Mat and Tuon are anyone in particular reborn. I think the binding of the nine moons is the Empire, and it means simply that the Empire will come under control of the Rand/Mat/whoever.

[Terez]

I think there's a good possibility it refers specifically to the Oath Rod.

[OptimusPrime]

How so? I can imagine the Oaths being the price collared channelers pay for freedom, but Im not sure how that relates to binding the nine moons as the Oath Rod doesnt bind you to a person.

 

Unless theres a new fealty Oath.

[Terez]

How so? I can imagine the Oaths being the price collared channelers pay for freedom, but Im not sure how that relates to binding the nine moons as the Oath Rod doesnt bind you to a person.

 

Unless theres a new fealty Oath.

Tuon swearing an oath to free the damane after the Last Battle. A price for her Consolidation. I could think of other arrangements, but that one seems the most likely. I expect there to be duking over said arrangements, and also over the matter of the prophecies - which ones are corrupt? We have reason to believe it's the Seanchan prophecies, but will Rand remember what Ishamael said to him way back in TEOTW? - but I tend to suspect that most of the negotiating will happen while Rand is dead, which means that Nynaeve and Perrin and the harem might not even be there, though you would think Elayne and Aviendha and Perrin at least would have important roles to play in all that. But maybe Rand will blow it all out of the water just by showing up and being all 'hey, I'm not dead!' If that happens, I at least expect it to be a very closed council.

 

I also would not be surprised to see her made part of the Callandor circle. She might even be able to lead it; since she does all the channeling directly when she wears the bracelet - or at least, she's shown that she is fully capable of doing so when she feels like it - she essentially already knows how to channel. And her prophecies say that her armies will defeat the servants of the Shadow while she sends the Dragon Reborn into the Pit of Doom to duel with Lighteater (Min had a viewing of that, by the way, though she didn't see Tuon ). It may be that, if Rand leads the circle, he's vulnerable. It may be the woman leading it that makes him vulnerable, though - Eben Hopwil might be seen as a foreshadowing of that.

 

But I can definitely see Tuon swearing an oath to show she will keep her part of the bargain. I can see her having done something similar in the future Aviendha saw, but somehow the damane are going to be added to the necessary demands. The obvious trade-off that Aviendha did not see in her future is the Consolidation. Tuon gets her Empire without centuries of bloodshed, damane get freed, perhaps a few other distasteful practices thanks to Mat (whom Aviendha heard nothing of in her future visions, which took place before Mat emerged victorious at Ghenjei), and the Aiel find a new purpose - within the Empire, though of course the Aiel will always be special and apart from others so long as they continue to seek partners among the Aiel - whatever that might happen to be (not sitting in a camp in Arad Doman and playing Cowboys and Indians with the Seanchan). Everyone is happy in Randland, and the only thing interesting that remains, aside from some details here and there, is for Mat and Tuon to return to the Seanchan continent and straighten things out there. RJ planned the outriggers for about 5-10 years after the Last Battle, and that's about how long it would take for the Seanchan to adapt to certain Randland customs. This was, of course, foreshadowed heavily in the courtship period, and Setalle Anan was a big part of it.

 

In other words, everyone seems to be in agreement that freeing the damane before the Last Battle would be impractical. It's certainly possible just because the Empress is such a deity for them, but it doesn't seem likely. However, the issue is such a huge one that it doesn't seem likely it will go unresolved, despite the future Aviendha saw, which I think everyone more or less agrees ain't happening exactly like that. For Tuon to make a promise to free the damane seems a little bit empty, though, even though we know she is honorable. A weak plot resolution. For her to swear an unbreakable oath is a different story, and the fact that it just so happens to fit the prophecy in a very RJ-y way is a nice bonus. It also is likely to be bound up in some final points on the Aes Sedai practice of binding. I'd like to think that they will get rid of them after the Last Battle but I'm not sure that's what RJ was going for. I just hope for it.

 

ETA: I might have answered my own question on the matter of the corrupt prophecies. Mat is the one who remembers Hawkwing's face, and he would probably know of the pre-Hawkwing prophecies. Birgitte might remember back that far as well, but she might not be necessary.

[Massive]

Well doesn't Rand lose his influence after he goes off and does his deed at SG? Referring to the idea of him showing back up alive after to continue talking, unless I misunderstand something here.

[Terez]

Well doesn't Rand lose his influence after he goes off and does his deed at SG? Referring to the idea of him showing back up alive after to continue talking, unless I misunderstand something here.

The chronology I envision is this:

 

1. Battle of Caemlyn. Black Tower issue is resolved, but Rand dies in the process without having been to Shayol Ghul. Oh no! Fear in the hearts of men, etc.

 

2. As in Nicola's Foretelling: he who is dead yet lives is in the boat with the harem. The Guardians balance the Servants, which suggests they are pretty much on the same team now, or working on it. Since Rand is dead, this suggests Egwene and Logain chatting. They're already good friends, since Egwene let him free. But the land is still divided by the Return.

 

3. Nothing for it but for Mat and Tuon to 1) consummate their marriage, and 2) come to some sort of agreement about their differences. The two must be 'as one' for Rand to have a chance at Shayol Ghul. So the Aelfinn said, but they didn't say Rand was going to be the one to make it that way. There's a thread in the AMOL board about maybe Tuon bonding Mat as her Warder, which would be a nice touch.

 

4. Meanwhile, Perrin and Nynaeve and the harem are working to resurrect Rand. That's why in Nicola's Foretelling, the future teeters on the edge of a blade. Things could go very badly if Rand is not resurrected, and at the same time, you might say the remaining issues with the Seanchan are just as important. For the bodyswap people, this bit is a little different, but the chronology is more or less the same (Luckers can feel free to correct me).

 

5. Rand returns from the dead and appears to a small group of people, most probably the people who are most important in establishing the Dragon's Peace.

 

6. Rand goes off to Shayol Ghul with a small group. He wins, and he's never seen again. Most probably assume he died (again). Probably only a few will know otherwise. This explains why Aviendha and Elayne disappear after a relatively short time, whenever they feel like their heirs can take over, presumably. Rand is probably living incognito somewhere, probably in the Two Rivers since all he wants is to go home. I imagine he'll stay there - probably hiding in the Westwood - at least until Tam dies, maybe till Min dies. Elayne and Aviendha will live longer. Perhaps Aviendha's visions of the future will convince both of them to remain involved in the world a little longer.

 

I expect the truce with the Seanchan to happen somewhere from 3-5.

[Massive]

Hmm what would you say to the idea that Rand, after his concern for weakening himself too much before TG when he saved Maradon, that he would not participate in the battle of Caemlyn? That's my main doubt.