A Demandred thread.

[UGAShadow]

So I was reading Winter's Heart again (I bought the audio book actually) I noticed something. It was from the POV of Demandred at the meeting of the Chosen in the middle of the book. Greandal said that he and Osan'gar were supposed to be the ones watching Rand. Now, I'm sure this was once used as the Taim/Demandred theory but I propose something different.

 

 

This should eliminate Murandy as a possible place for him. If he was trying to become king there then how would he keep cup with Rand? In conclusion, he must be someone who has close connection to Rand.

[Durinax]

Murandy is in a good position to watch the advancement and placement of rands armies, mobilizing or concentrating forces helps give away intentions, I think this is the way that Demandred was to keep an eye on rand, whereas Dashiva was to keep a eye on rands person

[UGAShadow]

I don't know about that. Both were included in it and she was talking about personally keeping an eye on him. Seeing as they were all upset no one knew where he was.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Demandred is doing "many things" according to Brandon.

 

Watching Rand would only be one. Osangar was with him at all times, Demandred wouldnt need to spend all his time doing so aswell. Besides, he has Gateways and TAR, popping up every now and then, keeping abrest of events would be realtively easy thing to do, and would not take too much time.

 

Im not saying Murandy for certain, but nothing is stopping Demandred from doing so. Remember, his forces are ready and gather for war. He has been doing something besides watch Rand. Murandy is as possible as any other army that he could lead.

[Elend]

1. If this eliminates Murandy, it also eliminates Shara, Seanchan... well, pretty much everywhere else that has been suggested. Including marshaling armies in the Blight. Just figured I'd put it out there- it doesn't just kill the Roedran theory, but a whole host of them.

 

2. The Forsaken are backstabbers. Demandred could have been simply BSing about watching Rand and disobeying orders.

 

3. Demandred could be using proxies to keep an eye on Rand. Or proxies to utilize Murandy. Remember, he particularly likes doing things like that.

 

4. Demandred has not been seen on screen yet. Since we know this, via Word of God, that means it is not someone particularly close to Rand. If it was, we'd have seen him by now.

 

5. In the post above mine, Demandred himself is suggesting he could be in Murandy. /nod

[UGAShadow]

I'm not saying he isn't at work there. I just think it eliminates him as the future king of Murandy.

 

 

But then I think he set up the prophet too.

[Barid Bel Medar]

I'm not saying he isn't at work there. I just think it eliminates him as the future king of Murandy.

 

 

But then I think he set up the prophet too.

 

The prophet was messed with by a person with the soul of a woman.

 

@Elend Indeed, but keep quiet about it, I will deny I ever said anything. Down with Lews Therin!!

[Zentari]

The prophet was messed with by a person with the soul of a woman. (so either a woman or Aran'gar)

Doesn't that eliminate Aran'gar ,with him being a transplanted male channeler and all that ?

[Barid Bel Medar]

The prophet was messed with by a person with the soul of a woman. (so either a woman or Aran'gar)

Doesn't that eliminate Aran'gar ,with him being a transplanted male channeler and all that ?

 

Oh dear. What a mistake, hahaha. You are completely right.

[herid]

I'm not saying he isn't at work there. I just think it eliminates him as the future king of Murandy.

As others have said, Demandred might be working through a proxy. It's mentioned elsewhere that he likes using proxies. Also, several people present at that Forsaken meeting including Aran'gar who mentioned that Demandred was supposed to be watching Rand, have no idea where Demandred is located. Graendal, certainly doesn't and she thinks in tGS that Demandred has a throne somewhere. This means that none of them think that Demandred is watching Rand personally, else they would know exactly where he is stationed. And for sure, he'd have to show up onscreen in his alter ego, which we know has not happened yet.

 

 

But regardless, this does raise an interesting issue of who is supposed to watch Rand on Demandred's behalf. It's supposed to be someone close to Rand. My only guess is that it's some of the DF Asha'man with Rand. We know that Demandred was involved with some of them because Kisman mentions his orders to kill Rand.

 

But then I think he set up the prophet too.

As others have said it's a woman. I like Luckers' idea that it's most likely Moggy. BS said that Masema was not controlled by a Forsaken from the beginning and he was only appropriated once his potential usefulness became apparent. Moggy had a good chance to do that in Amador (TFoH,Ch18) when Masema was not far away. She set various member's of Liandrin's group different tasks and some have not been seen since. In particular, Berylla Naron, who is described by Liandrin as "as fine a manipulator and plotter as there was" is never heard of after Moggy sent her some place. Manipulating Masema would be a good task for her.

[yoniy0]

Let's move back to the original idea, which I think is a good one. How exactly was Demandred keeping an eye on Rand up 'till WH? I'm finding it hard to believe watching Andor from afar satisfies that description.

[Jong]

Let's move back to the original idea, which I think is a good one. How exactly was Demandred keeping an eye on Rand up 'till WH? I'm finding it hard to believe watching Andor from afar satisfies that description.

 

Probabbly, Verin and / or Elza. It would seem that both of their assignments (from the forsaken POV) were to gather intelligence.

[Terez]

As an aside, Aubree decided to take a vote on this at the last theory panel today (at JordanCon). Something like 90% of people voted for Roedran.

[Sharaman]

Most importantly, there is no negative evidence against the Dem=Roedran theory, which there is about every other.

There's been a careful build up of evidence for Roedran hasn't there?

Also if Demandred is not Roedran, or some character who has never been mentioned in passing (that would be lame in literary terms), who is he?

 

The change in his personality from pleasure-loving wimp to a gunslinger who welds a warring nation together.

The interest in military affairs - reading manuals on the art of war, etc.

His staying offstage, which gels with RJ's and Brandon's statements.

Murandy fits the bill as well - it's beautifully placed in Central Wotland, especially if it has portal stones and Waygate connections.

 

 

Of course, all this could be a red herring. But the Danelle - Mesaana reveal suggests that it's not - Dem=Roedran would fit with the way in which Brandon followed through on the Mesaana narrative.

[UGAShadow]

Would Demandred need to read books on war? His preference is for things other than direct conflict but I'm sure its mentioned that he commanded before in the War of Power.

 

 

 

Also, I didn't know a woman set up Masema. Is that a quote from Jordan/Sanderson or a puzzle from the books I missed?

[Barid Bel Medar]

Would Demandred need to read books on war? His preference is for things other than direct conflict but I'm sure its mentioned that he commanded before in the War of Power.

 

 

 

Also, I didn't know a woman set up Masema. Is that a quote from Jordan/Sanderson or a puzzle from the books I missed?

 

1. haha, Demandred is the Shadow's top general. He said he didnt enjoy war, but he was the best in the WoP. If LTT hadn't been born, Demandred would have been the Dragon.

 

2. It is a quote from Brandon.

[herid]

Most importantly, there is no negative evidence against the Dem=Roedran theory, which there is about every other.

There is some negative evidence IMO. I would find it out of character for Demandred to read someone else's books on war as he considers himself to be a great general. I also find it out of character for him to treat Talmanes so nicely. Roedran gave him a number of gifts (including a copy of Comadrin's book). Somehow I don't see Demandred doing that. He also let Talmanes and the Band go without trying to appropriate them. Terez has a theory on the issue that it's all part of some very devious plot by Demandred but that theory is pretty much pure speculation at this point. I do admit that there is a lot of evidence pointing toward Roedran but I still think it more likely that Demandred is controlling Roedran but is not impersonating him personally.

There's been a careful build up of evidence for Roedran hasn't there?

Also if Demandred is not Roedran, or some character who has never been mentioned in passing (that would be lame in literary terms), who is he?

 

The change in his personality from pleasure-loving wimp to a gunslinger who welds a warring nation together.

The interest in military affairs - reading manuals on the art of war, etc.

His staying offstage, which gels with RJ's and Brandon's statements.

Murandy fits the bill as well - it's beautifully placed in Central Wotland, especially if it has portal stones and Waygate connections.

 

 

Of course, all this could be a red herring. But the Danelle - Mesaana reveal suggests that it's not - Dem=Roedran would fit with the way in which Brandon followed through on the Mesaana narrative.

[yoniy0]

Terez has a theory on the issue that it's all part of some very devious plot by Demandred but that theory is pretty much pure speculation at this point.

Of course it is, but if you were Demandred, charged with killing Matrim Cauthon, and you encountered his private army, what would you do? The obvious thing would be either (a) grab them as bait, or (b) release them but keep tabs to find him. As such I don't see it as evidence to the contrary that he released them (with a bit of metal, which he really had no reason to do, and I think it quite likely that it's the same pipe from Min's viewing).

[UGAShadow]

He was not told to kill Mat till ToM though.

[Mats Spare Hat]

If he doesn't end up being Roedran, and BS witnessed said poll where around 90 percent thought that's who he is...

 

Think he's thinking 'SSssssuckers! *accompanying giggles'?

 

Honestly though, he's Scraps, the hardly noticed stray dog of Randland - Though that cockatiel always did have a slanty-eyed thing going on...

[herid]

Terez has a theory on the issue that it's all part of some very devious plot by Demandred but that theory is pretty much pure speculation at this point.

Of course it is, but if you were Demandred, charged with killing Matrim Cauthon,

as UGAShadow said, Demandred was not charged with killing Mat until a long time later. It doesn't mean that he could not have some special plans of his own in that regard but that's another assumption that we need to make. As far as we can tell Demandred never showed any interest in Mat until recently. His ally Semirhage had no idea about Mat. All the attacks against Mat that we've seen were likely organized by others. First Sammael and after Sammael's death most likely Moridin. I think he was the one who controlled the gholam after Sammael's death.

and you encountered his private army, what would you do? The obvious thing would be either (a) grab them as bait,

doesn't have to be as bait. He could just fold them into his army if he tried. He could, for example, compel Talmanes. Talmanes was the boss of the Band without Mat. He made the decision to work for Roedran by himself in the first place. He could have made another decision to extend his employment.

or (b) release them but keep tabs to find him. As such I don't see it as evidence to the contrary that he released them (with a bit of metal, which he really had no reason to do, and I think it quite likely that it's the same pipe from Min's viewing).

as I said, the idea with the tracker on a pipe is a cool one but it's really just an idea at this point. I'm not saying that it's definitely wrong but there is very little to support it at the moment. Just about every male character in Randlands has a pipe. all the main characters do for sure. Some have pipes with metal on them. Mat himself has a silver-mounted pipe.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Since when did Demandred take personal interest in Mat? Do you mean the Forsaken's order to kill Mat and Perrin? Or is there something that says Demandred is after Mat? Curious to know, did i miss something.

 

Anyway, its all pointless discussion, clearly Demandred is one of the Sea Folk.

[herid]

Since when did Demandred take personal interest in Mat? Do you mean the Forsaken's order to kill Mat and Perrin? Or is there something that says Demandred is after Mat? Curious to know, did i miss something.

 

We don't know for sure that Demandred has any special interest in Mat. It's just a theory of terez. According to that theory he put a Finder weave (like the one Moiraine did with the coins in tEoTW and Elayne with Hark) on the gold pipe he gave to Talmanes. The Finder needs metal which is why the pipe is gold. She also thinks that that pipe is the one from Min's vision and Talmanes is one of the dead men in that vision.

 

What I was saying is that without a theory like that it's hard to explain Roedran's dealings with Talmanes if Roedran is Demandred.

[Terez]

Actually, it isn't - I explained it on the page you linked. Also, all of the Forsaken were ordered to kill Mat and Perrin in KOD ch. 3.

[Sharaman]

Demandred may just be curious how war is conducted in an era that's 3K years removed from him?

I'd find it very surprising if he didn't want to read every military history written since his incarceration.