Sammael

[Edorion]

I've reread ACOS mutliple times lately (as thats one of 4 WOT novels that I sent myself in PDF at the office that survived the E-mail system conversion, hehe), and the ending sequence has always kind of bothered me. As an admitted comic book guy growing up, the adage, "never believe a character is dead until you see a body, and even then only 1/4th of the time," would certainly apply. We don't actually see him consumed by flames or snatched by Mashadar. AAMOF Rand states, "He couldn't have survived that," or something similar, a statement which would tend to make my BS alarm go flippin haywire. Furhter, in my scanning of these forums and others at theoryland I've never run across a quote from RJ stating that he's for sure toast, and I'd be surprised if he had considering he was the subject of the "Darkfriend Social" in KOD. So my question for the forum is, have I missed something? Sammael was revealed in book 2 and wasn't confronted until book 7, he at least threw a couple of stones @ Rand in Cairhein during the Shaido smashing and nuked some soldiers in ACOS, I just always kind of thought he went out with a whimper. And even if he was "killed off" in Shadar Logoth couldn't he have just been transmigrated? Thanks in Advance.

[Guest moosendoo]

I've never run across a quote from RJ stating that he's for sure toast...

Heh, funny you should say that.

 

"Question from Arsolos: It has been reported that you have confirmed that Sammael died at the end of Crown of Swords. Could you confirm that you have said this and elaborate on whether Rand was correct?

 

Robert Jordan: Mashadar killed Sammael. Sammael is toast!"

 

source

[randsc]

Yeah, he's dead. It's too bad, because he was one of the few villians with potential. But the he went and got himself killed by some mist.

[Edorion]

I've never run across a quote from RJ stating that he's for sure toast...

Heh, funny you should say that.

 

"Question from Arsolos: It has been reported that you have confirmed that Sammael died at the end of Crown of Swords. Could you confirm that you have said this and elaborate on whether Rand was correct?

 

Robert Jordan: Mashadar killed Sammael. Sammael is toast!"

 

source

 

 

Bummer. Too bad for scarface. Thanks for pointing that out!

[Pygmalion79]

Has the transmigration angle ever been covered? It's odd because Egwene's vision in ToM rules that out (right?) but what would the Dark One's reason be for not bringing him back?

[randsc]

Has the transmigration angle ever been covered? It's odd because Egwene's vision in ToM rules that out (right?) but what would the Dark One's reason be for not bringing him back?

 

Because he's not just dead. Or rather, he's beyond dead. He's been absorbed by Mashadar.

[Byzantine279]

I believe the reasoning is that Mashadar tainted his soul in some way which made the DO unable to transmigrate him.

[Nightstrike]

The Gathering Storm Book Tour, Scottsdale Public Library, Phoenix Arizona 16 November 2009 - kcf reporting

 

Q: Are there any circumstances of death that could prevent the Dark One from resurrecting someone (other than balefire)?

A: Yes, but I’m not going to tell you what.

 

This lead to a fair amount of discussion about balefire and such. At one point, Brandon said ‘all Forsaken other than Sammael who haven’t come back were balefired’. I immediately jumped on this and asked if that included Asmodean – Brandon said that he wasn’t talking about Asmodean (we all didn’t even want to go there), but this is further evidence of Brandon slipping hints that Asmodean was balefired. This lead to a small debate about Osan’gar – I didn’t think he was balefired, everyone else at the table thought he was.

 

Brandon also said that the Dark One would have liked very much to transmigrate Sammael but didn’t. Apparently, since he died by Mashadar, Sammael was either unable to be transmigrated or it would have been a very bad idea. Basically, Mashadar tainted Sammael’s thread somehow.

[Pygmalion79]

The Gathering Storm Book Tour, Scottsdale Public Library, Phoenix Arizona 16 November 2009 - kcf reporting

Brandon also said that the Dark One would have liked very much to transmigrate Sammael but didn’t. Apparently, since he died by Mashadar, Sammael was either unable to be transmigrated or it would have been a very bad idea. Basically, Mashadar tainted Sammael’s thread somehow.

Thanks, that answers my question nicely. I wonder if a returned Sammael would have had anything in common with Fain (who was also a servant of the Dark One and was tainted by anti-Dark One evil). Probably not enough to be friends, except by Fain's rather liberal standards of friendship.

[Smittyphi]

Probably not enough to be friends, except by Fain's rather liberal standards of friendship.

 

Help me now and I'll kill you once you're done with your job or I kill you now. That sort of friendship?

[mb]

About the non-balefire methods that prevent resurrection, I have speculated inside a Gateway.

 

Not sure if Mashadar would qualify as another way.