Rand and the TP

[The Watcher and Wanderer]

Option three makes no sense. Why would the DO need to arrange for Rand to draw on the TP via his link with Moridin when he could easily just give Rand permission to use it?

[Barid Bel Medar]

Option three makes no sense. Why would the DO need to arrange for Rand to draw on the TP via his link with Moridin when he could easily just give Rand permission to use it?

 

read the posts beforehand, and also Brandon and RJ quotes.

 

But to put it in simple terms: some of us suspect that the DO cant just snap his fingers and Rand can use the TP. There actually has to be some connection formed, taking place at Shayol Ghul most likely. Read my first post, look at what RJ said about it.

[OptimusPrime]

I reckon because of the link between Rand and Moridin, that they are becoming one person. One thread in the Pattern. Moridin has permission, but if Moridins thread is connected to Rands... then Rand has permission, because in some ways, he and Moridin are becoming one dude. Rands permission IS Moridins permission.

 

Rand got access through the link, without his OWN permission. He had permission whether the Dark One liked it or not. The Dark One liked it though.

[MatrixM]

I've always thought 4, though i have also accepted 3 to be possible. The thing that pulls me away from 3 is that i doubt the balefire crossing was intentional or that it even could be planned.

 

The thing that casts some doubt on 4 is the passage when he first realises the presence of the True Power, which kind of implied it was far, far away.

 

Still...4, i reckon.

 

The Dark One liked it though.

[Terez]

None of us think that the balefire stream-crossing was planned. At least, I doubt any of us do (hard to say what people believe really). We just think that they utilized it to their benefit in whatever ways possible. Moridin probably is able to either feel the bonds or see the ta'veren visions - something to clue him in to the possibility that Rand might be able to sense and use the True Power through their link if he was pushed far enough. Another example of them learning to utilize the link, in my opinion, is the epilogue of TOM. Apparently it didn't occur to Moridin that he could invade Rand's dreams until Rand invaded his own in TGS.

[OptimusPrime]

I've always thought 4, though i have also accepted 3 to be possible. The thing that pulls me away from 3 is that i doubt the balefire crossing was intentional or that it even could be planned.

 

 

Exactly. For one thing, how can Moridin or the Dark One be sure Rand would have used it? Secondly, Moridins reaction seems one of genuine frustration when it happened; no, I dont think Moridin or the Dark One planned it, but it was certainly a nice bargaining tool once it came about.

[Terez]

I've always thought 4, though i have also accepted 3 to be possible. The thing that pulls me away from 3 is that i doubt the balefire crossing was intentional or that it even could be planned.

Exactly. For one thing, how can Moridin or the Dark One be sure Rand would have used it?

They couldn't. But it was a very strong possibility, with the situation Semirhage put him in (which was orchestrated by Shaidar Haran). He couldn't channel saidin, so they had good reason to believe that, if he could sense the True Power, he would sense it then, and use it. Semirhage's methods were predictable. Either Rand uses the True Power, or he is their captive.

 

Aside from that, the foreshadowing in LOC seems to make it clear that Semirhage was sacrificed for a greater objective. It's Moridin's revenge.

 

Secondly, Moridins reaction seems one of genuine frustration when it happened

What reaction was that?

[OptimusPrime]

I've always thought 4, though i have also accepted 3 to be possible. The thing that pulls me away from 3 is that i doubt the balefire crossing was intentional or that it even could be planned.

Exactly. For one thing, how can Moridin or the Dark One be sure Rand would have used it?

They couldn't. But it was a very strong possibility, with the situation Semirhage put him in (which was orchestrated by Shaidar Haran). He couldn't channel saidin, so they had good reason to believe that, if he could sense the True Power, he would sense it then, and use it. Semirhage's methods were predictable. Either Rand uses the True Power, or he is their captive.

 

Aside from that, the foreshadowing in LOC seems to make it clear that Semirhage was sacrificed for a greater objective. It's Moridin's revenge.

 

Ah, methinks you are getting the wrong idea. I was saying Moridin and the Dark One couldnt be sure that Rand would have used balefire at Shadar Logoth, so the balefire crossing itself I think was not planned. But once the connection was there, the Dark One realizes "Hey, that guy can access the True Power too now." So then the TGS thing was planned, sure. If someone has access to the forbidden power, cut off the one he likes, then have the forbidden one loom over him, yea its a basic strategy once the connection between them was formed. I was merely saying that the plan to make Rand channel TP did NOT include the forming of the connection via balefire.

 

Secondly, Moridins reaction seems one of genuine frustration when it happened

What reaction was that?

 

Again, this was about the balefire crossing, not the True Power event. At Shadar Logoth Moridin seems irritated when the connection was formed, and while he was all for standing around and having a chat, as soon as they crossed balefires he couldnt wait to get away.

[Terez]

Ah, okay. Sorry about that. Yeah, the stream-crossing was pretty obviously accidental.

[TheAngryDruid]

I went with option 3. Rand can access the TP via his link with Moridin, and realizing this, the DO served Semi up on a platter for him, hoping it would push him over the edge, and win the LB w/out a battle, and it almost worked.

 

However, the existence of the Moridin/Rand link was NOT in the plans, and Rand does not need the DO's express permission to channel the TP, as long as Moridin has permission. So he still has access. As Moridin is truly the DO's champion, the DO is unlikely to deny permission, and in most scenarios, probably wouldn't want to, as Rand using the TP would still have negative consequences for the Light.

[Entreri]

I went with option 3. Rand can access the TP via his link with Moridin, and realizing this, the DO served Semi up on a platter for him, hoping it would push him over the edge, and win the LB w/out a battle, and it almost worked.

 

However, the existence of the Moridin/Rand link was NOT in the plans, and Rand does not need the DO's express permission to channel the TP, as long as Moridin has permission. So he still has access. As Moridin is truly the DO's champion, the DO is unlikely to deny permission, and in most scenarios, probably wouldn't want to, as Rand using the TP would still have negative consequences for the Light.

 

 

This is what I think as well. I wonder what other effects this strange link will have. Moridin could feel the pain of Rand losing his arm... If one of them dies...what would be the consequence to the other? Like the Warder bond, or more severe?

[Sharaman]

Depends on the how if one of them dies I think. If it's balefire, the survivor will keep getting unstuck in time.

If it's normal fire, the survivor will scream "it burns, it burns".

If it's decapitation, he'll keep feeling his neck with a puzzled look.

[farthammer]

Obviously he was able to draw it through his connection with Semirhage and not Moridin.