Logain and Taim

[Southpaw89]

I can't remember. Does it ever officially state who's stronger between the two or are people just assuming Logain is because of his aura about greatness? I just remember reading that Logain was one of the more stronger false dragons ever so that could be evidence but I've started thinking Taim is stronger. Especially after the hint that he may have the TP

[killuliu]

If my memory serves me right, when Rand asked Taim to hold as much OP as possible, he managed to held nearly as much as Rand at the moment (he had already grown quite strong I believe), and that would make Taim very strong. And it is later stated that Logain is "a lot" weaker than Rand, but then again, Rand is around his full power when they are compared, so it's pretty hard to say for sure. But I have such impression that Taim is stronger than Logain.

[herid]

If my memory serves me right, when Rand asked Taim to hold as much OP as possible, he managed to held nearly as much as Rand at the moment (he had already grown quite strong I believe), and that would make Taim very strong. And it is later stated that Logain is "a lot" weaker than Rand, but then again, Rand is around his full power when they are compared, so it's pretty hard to say for sure. But I have such impression that Taim is stronger than Logain.

I agree with this. Taim seems to be exceptionally strong, nearly as strong as Rand.

 

For a moment Taim only looked at him, expressionless; then the Power flooded into him. There was no glow such as women could see around one another, only a sense of force and menace, but Rand could feel it clearly, and judge it. Taim held enough of saidin to devastate the farm and everyone there in seconds, enough to lay waste as far as he could see. It was not much short of what Rand himself could manage, unaided. But then, the man could be holding back. There was no sense of strain and he might not want to show his full strength to Rand; how could he know how Rand might react?

-LoC, Ch 3

Logain can tell when Rand holds as much as he can handle after the attack on Algarin's manor in KoD so presumably Rand should be able to do the same with Taim.

"A Deathgate," Logain said, his voice tinged with distaste. "Why are you still holding the Power?'- he asked suddenly. "And so much.

 

If you're trying to show me that you're stronger than I am, I already know it. I saw how large your . . . your Deathgates were compared to mine. And I'd say you're holding every drop of saidin that you can safely."

-KoD, Ch 19

This suggests that Taim does in fact hold back when Rand measures him up.

 

Note that while Rand might not be at his full potential when he measures up Taim he is pretty far advanced at the time. Men achieve their full strength quickly (just look at the Asha'man) and Rand, like Egwene, was pushed. His progress in achieving his full potential was greatly accelerated by the use of various very powerful sa'angreal (Callandor and Choedan Kal) and of the Eye of The World. He was already a match for Asmodean (who is a Forsaken after all) when they fought in Rhuidean and that was more than a book before he meets Taim, plus using Choedan Kal would push Rand greatly as I mentioned already.

 

This suggests that Taim is stronger than Logain and probably by a fair margin.

[GYLD]

I think Logain was merely making an assumption that Rand was holding as much of the Power as he could. He was right, but Rand at the time was battling for control of Saidin with Lews Therin and from another person's perspective that could very well look like someone struggling to hold on to as much of the Power as they can. Logain doesn't even state it as fact.

[OptimusPrime]

I agree that Taim is the stronger. It hardly matters in reality though, we have seen time and time again that brute strength alone isnt everything.

 

But Taim would still kick Logains ass.

[Sharaman]

Yayy! We can have a strength of channelers argument all over again.

[sVieira151]

All arguments about Taim nearly holding as much as Rand when Rand asks him to. It says Taim didn't seem strained at all at holding that much.

 

Maybe he had on his possession an angreal/sa'angreal given to him by Moridin/Demandred? Whether they had one to give him or not, I don't know. To me it seems plausible, however.

 

Especially since Rand thinks he may be holding back. This could be so that he isn't holding as much power as he could through the angreal/sa'angreal to make it seems a more 'normal' level of power he is holding.

[Luckers]

Logain is not as weak as you guys think...

 

"Do I look fool enough not to?" Logain snarled. At another window, he already held saidin, nearly as much as Rand could draw. He was weaving as fast as he could. "Do you intend to help or just watch. my Lord Dragon?" There was entirely too much sarcasm in that, but now was not the time to bring it up.

 

So the same comparison as Taim, but later when Rand may have gained more strength.

[SethBaker]

Logain is not as weak as you guys think...

 

"Do I look fool enough not to?" Logain snarled. At another window, he already held saidin, nearly as much as Rand could draw. He was weaving as fast as he could. "Do you intend to help or just watch. my Lord Dragon?" There was entirely too much sarcasm in that, but now was not the time to bring it up.

 

So the same comparison as Taim, but later when Rand may have gained more strength.

 

Agreed. There's the additional consideration that strength in the Power isn't the only factor in the size/strength of individual weaves. Androl is a good example. Logain and Rand could be very close in Power, with Rand simply better at Deathgates.

[IMeMin]

My general sense is that Taim is stronger than Logain. On the other hand, I expect Logain will end up the one who's better off when all is said and done.

[Barid Bel Medar]

I have them on the same level.

 

I dont think there is that much between them.

 

Both are "nearly as strong as Rand."

 

I know the whole, "taim wasnt drawing as much as he could" arguement is valid, but I always thought, while Rand is strong in LoC, he is still a fair bit stronger when he gets to KoD.

 

As for men learning more quickly, that is not precisely true. It is said that men grow in bursts, opposed to women who grow proportionally (of course, this is a generalization, I am sure there are those who break the sterotype.)

 

So my opinion is that Rand had a little growth spurt in tSR/LoC, then another WH/KoD and yet again another VoG.

 

Of course, its personal opinion, so hey, but thats just how i saw it.

 

So in terms of Strength, I think they are equal, so close that the difference doesnt matter.

 

In terms of knowledge, I think Taim wins there. He obviously has contact with the Forsaken, I suspect he was trained by Ishmael and possibly Demandred later. I am sure that they at least showed him some AoL weaves. (although, I suppose you could say Logain learned a bit from Rand, Deathgates, Arrows of Fire etc.. But thats only a few weaves.)

 

Who would win in a 1v1 fight? I would hesitate to say Taim would win. Taim is pretty blunt with his channeling (brute force with his club of Air etc..) if I had to guess, I think Logain would be a little more tactical.

 

Of course, the debate is really moot. Both are strong enough to use Balefire. It wouldnt matter who is better if you Balefired them to oblivion.

[MasterAblar]

I agree with Barid Bel Medar. I think that seeing as they have been set up as the leaders of rival factions of the BT, it makes sense for them to be about equal in power.

 

If I remember correctly it took six aes sedai in LoC to keep Logain shielded. Thats the same number as Galina had shielding Rand. So perhaps they were about the same strength end LoC.

 

Taim was only slightly weaker than Rand beginning LoC, but he might have been holding back, or he may have had an angreal. The second is unlikely since I doubt the forsaken would let him run around with an angreal, especially since the ones for men are very rare and it's pretty unlikely he would find one on his own. The first is possible, maybe even probable, but I wonder how he could have know how strong Rand would be. Afterall Rand drew on the power in response to Taim, so I don't see how Taim could have stopped himself before he drew more than Rand could.

 

In the end I think that they are equal in power, and I would say near Rahvin and Sammael in terms of brute strength, so that makes them pretty strong.

[Southpaw89]

of course we gotta question whether or not Taim has had access to the true power. Some indication in I think WH that he might have the TP. Other than that we dont' know a whole lot about Taim since he's been more in the shadows than Logain has. One thing I think we can say, Taim is pretty dang confident.

[Norienne]

One thing I think we can say, Taim is pretty dang confident.

 

Most bullies are, at least outwardly.