[Advanced Mafia] Black Ajah - GAME OVER!

[csarmi]

My shortlist:

 

leelou (that hammer)

Blackhoof (jumping around acting scummy)

Drew (most scummy on SLSP for me)

Red (keep pinging me this game)

[Red2111]

Aust, i'm goign to take your quote point by point. i did this in a seperate post so i wasn't one big WOT

 

Two major inconsistencies from Red. First, the sudden 360 in regards to the issue of a SK vs 2 scum teams. Within the span of one post, she went from all out assault on the idea that there are two scum teams including a "huge FOS" at me for suggesting it. Now in the blink of an eye she's suddenly changed her whole point of view? I believe that people are capable of changing their mind on an issue - and should do so given the weight of evidence - but this is a major flip-flop.

 

Aust, did you even read my post. i stated, rather plainly why i switched my opinion. sounds like someone's skimming if you ask me, which points to Wombys previous suspicions of you for you playstyle.

 

here, since you didn't catch it the first time, i'll post what changed my mind; somehting i've already stated in my previous posts.

 

SOMETHING YOU SHOULD BE AWARE OF: THERE IS A WAY FOR A MAFIA TEAM TO GAIN A PERMANENT NIGHTKILL.

 

i underlined the part that changed my mind. the way this is worded makes it appear that there is 2 teams; other wise Alanna woudl have used the word THE instead of A when referring to "Mafia Team"

 

i would think that the Mod giving us new information such as this would be enough "evidence" as you call it to change ones mind. besides, why would i continue on a discussion about the possibility of a SK when i agreed to drop it Aust; now your attempting to bring it back up, when we both agreed it serves no purpose. sounds like your trying to bait me luv

 

 

 

It was a big basis for her suspicion of me, and now she suddenly agrees with me on the matter, but still places me high on her list of suspects. I'm not quite clear of the basis for that now.

 

*shakes head* Aust dear, i guess you didn't understand me when i explained it the first time. my suspicion of you wasnt over the actual disagreement of "SK vs 2 Mafia Teams" debate; it was over your actions concerning it. i stated this many times. it was how you reacted to the mention of the possability of a SK being in this game and tbh the reason why i suspected you was because i thought, by your actions, you were the SK. imo, because i have no inside info i have to keep my options open as to what anti-town factions can be in play; there fore i also expect other townies to be the same way. your vehament denial and hard fight to squash any rumor agaisnt there being anything other that 2 scum groups in this game stunk to me; so like a good townie i pressured you further to try and find and cracks in you case or get you to slip up.

 

THATs why i FoSs'd you and still FoS you. i still find your reaction to be odd.

 

 

Second, the matter of looking at the voting lists. She railed against the idea of using the voting rule, and now states that scum are going to try to distract us from using voting lists. Again, a major 360 with no apparent rhyme or reason to it. This is a huge inconsistency on two separate matters.

 

first off the main arguement was about how the "having to be on the lynch would make the scum off balance" which has nothing to do with lynch lists an more so to do with a difference of opinion as to what gives the scum a disability. again this is somehting we both agreed to drop which your bringing up again.

 

 

you say i railed against the idea of using the the voting rule but if i recall, my reasonings for voting for Blackie D2 was partly because "he was on the D1 vote". can you quote where i specifically said i'm against compiling lynches to try and shift out scum??

[Red2111]

oh btw, someone asked for a reason why people are finding Blackhoof scumm other than his erradic posting. this is why i mainly find him scummy

 

then we are all on the same page. *thumbs up*

 

i tend to use hyperbole a lot, to make my sentences seem more dramatic and what-not. im a melodramatic dude. so that is why if i said "you made a bit deal" you probably made a "bit of a deal".

 

i am glad that you have accepted your role as sacrificial lamb and plan to go quietly (it suks lynching poor townies/scums for no reason while they are all like "wtf! what did i do! dont lynch me, plz!". kind of fun, though. if you have an important role, speak up now.

i almost hope that you arent the sacrificial lamb, phelix. you are so nice. :)

 

we could always lynch Aust, or csarmi, instead or krak.... he voted for me

 

blackie, i'm starting to think you're just one of those players i find scummy. but this entire post reaks of scum!! especially the bolded part!

 

you're glad if he is town that he's accepted being sacrificed then you follow it up with role fishing when he's got, what, like not even half of the needed votes on him for a lynch. *shakes head*

 

 

 

figured i'd re-dig it up seeing as with that last post of his, he's pinged me yet again.

[Alanna]

I AM LOOKING FOR A REPLACEMENT FOR SONG. IF ANYONE KNOWS OF ANYONE WHO WANTS TO PLAY, PLEASE HAVE THEM PM ME.

[Alanna]

MrLiterate will be replacing Song.

[Alanna]

Vote Count:

Leelou (3) - Talmanes, Drew, csarmi

Drew (3) - Blackhoof, Curt, BG

Red (1) - Aust

 

Not Voting (7): Red, Leelou, Krak, MrLiterate, Player, Meesh, AJ

 

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch

 

UPDATE - I'M SETTING A DEADLINE. THURSDAY, APRIL 14 @ 4PM CST.

[Aust]

I cut right to the relevant statement in your post Red.

 

 

 

i also think pressuring Aust a bit more might bare fruit. his whole dismissive attitude toward the idea a SK might be in the game wreeks.

 

 

Here, you decide to pressure me because - after presenting the logic that there is probably two scum teams, and not an SK - you decide I'm being dismissive of the idea of an SK. Which is what you in fact were doing about the idea that there was a second scum team - fairly hypocritical.

 

 

 

A massive force moves steadily northward across the earth, a rebel army of Aes Sedai and their soldiers, ready to wage battle on the White Tower. But murder is being done among them, a Forsaken hidden in their camp. Egwene al'Vere and her rebel Hall are pushed and prodded from the shadows, by the Black agents who wish to force them to their will.

 

Aust, i've read the OP and i've even provided it above. notice the wording of the sentence, the sturcture. it talks specifically about murder being done, then theres a comma which indicates more info specifically relating to or included with the first part of the sentence.

 

 

also, as i've said before. if we recall the cannon surrounding the Saladar little tower; there was a single Forsaken doing the killing; not a group of BA. also, if you look at the murder itself here in the game; it talks abotu it being done while Mav was asleep. in the books, the murders commited by Arnie in Saladar were done at night while the victims were asleep. in the books Arnie wa a solo agent (aka SK) in Saladar on orders from Mordin to cause chaos any way possible.

 

 

it seems to me that your trying really hard to squash and convo or speculation about the possability of a SK being in this game. FOS @ Aust.

 

 

 

And here, you are adamant that your interpretation of things is correct, that because I disagree with you, it means I'm trying to 'squash' conversation about there being an SK.

 

 

 

Now, you agree with me - but think I am scummy because I.. presented a logical case that you know agree with me on? Additionally is the use of the voting lists, which you adamantly disagreed with on day one - but now you find them useful.

 

 

There are so many flip-flops in what you just did, you could be a gymnast. It looks like you're trying for any reason to spread around suspicion right now with little heed to the logic behind it. That's a scum tactic who knows they don't have to really pay attention to details.

[Blackhoof]

as a fellow mafia mod (i've run a hand full of games in my playing career) let me advise you Blackhoof that talking about an ongoing game is a big no-no and you should heed the warning that Alanna has already given people verbally in this game. not only can it lead to people slipping up and ruining the game for people still playing, but also as the game hasn't concluded you aren't privy to all the information as far as what roles players had, what info players had concerning the game and other players and what all went on behind the scenes. there for any asumptions you make about said game are purely that, assumptions.

 

well, i didnt think it mattered since we are all dead and your disagreement with Aemon was rather public. i was pointing that even though you and aemon disagreed and you named him scummy, he wasnt scum. it was an example of you FOS'ing someone who disagreed with you but turned out innocent.

 

unless you'd like to argue that side Blackie which again i'd advise you not to unless you want to be lynched.

 

is that... *grin* a threat?

[Alanna]

as a fellow mafia mod (i've run a hand full of games in my playing career) let me advise you Blackhoof that talking about an ongoing game is a big no-no and you should heed the warning that Alanna has already given people verbally in this game. not only can it lead to people slipping up and ruining the game for people still playing, but also as the game hasn't concluded you aren't privy to all the information as far as what roles players had, what info players had concerning the game and other players and what all went on behind the scenes. there for any asumptions you make about said game are purely that, assumptions.

 

well, i didnt think it mattered since we are all dead and your disagreement with Aemon was rather public. i was pointing that even though you and aemon disagreed and you named him scummy, he wasnt scum. it was an example of you FOS'ing someone who disagreed with you but turned out innocent.

 

 

I'm not trying to be super mean or strict about this or anything, but it really does matter. You're dead; others aren't - the game is ongoing, period. I'm not the mod of that game, but I'm pretty sure one of his rules is that the game is not to be spoken of offthread. That really pertains to dead players, too, because the fact is, you may have information that other players in that ongoing game are not privy to. And it doesn't matter if something was "public" in the game - the whole game thread is public; it's still not to be talked about.

 

Again, I realize you're already dead in that game, but I have seen players modkilled for even casual references such as this.

 

And all that aside, there simply is no need to be referencing other games, other than for the occasional metagaming. It confuses people who weren't in those other games, and has no bearing on this game. If you want to make a point about Red, feel free to say something like "I've seen you do this in other games." No need to be specific, because really, are other players going to go look up that game anyway? I doubt it.

[Blackhoof]

ok, ill be a good boy from now on.

[Red2111]

welcoem to the game Mrs L.

 

also DREW. we need to get the game moving and out of the two vote leaders he;s the one that makes the most since; due to the whole list thing

 

 

Here, you decide to pressure me because - after presenting the logic that there is probably two scum teams, and not an SK - you decide I'm being dismissive of the idea of an SK. Which is what you in fact were doing about the idea that there was a second scum team - fairly hypocritical.

 

no, i never fully dismissed the possibility of a 2nd scum team; just thought it more logical at the time and given the way i read the OP and Mav's death post that a SK killing him seemed more logical. yes i pressured you for you blunt dismissal of the fact at that point a SK was just as likely as a 2nd scum group. you appeared to not even want to discuss the matter and were rather pointed and adament about there not being a SK in this game at all. i still find this odd.

 

you call me hypocritical Aust; but Pots shouldn't call Kettles black. you're being Hypocritical for the same exact reason; as you also pressured me because you believed me to be dismissing the idea of a 2nd scum group while you yourself dismissed the idea of a SK.

 

 

And here, you are adamant that your interpretation of things is correct, that because I disagree with you, it means I'm trying to 'squash' conversation about there being an SK.

 

Now, you agree with me - but think I am scummy because I.. presented a logical case that you know agree with me on? Additionally is the use of the voting lists, which you adamantly disagreed with on day one - but now you find them useful.

 

There are so many flip-flops in what you just did, you could be a gymnast. It looks like you're trying for any reason to spread around suspicion right now with little heed to the logic behind it. That's a scum tactic who knows they don't have to really pay attention to details.

 

no it wasn't that you disagreed with me Aust. for a 3rd time, it was becuase you refused to even think for a moment that there could be a SK in the mix. i'm not totlaly agreeing with you about the 2nd scum group; i wont be sure of that until we see a different scum flip in a corners report and thats only if the Mod seperates them by color or name. i'm inlcined to think that if there are two seperate groups she will color code them like she's done with the two different Ajah members that have been killed.

 

right now i just think it's more likely, due to the new info the Mod has presented and i've already explained, that there is a 2nd scum group rather than a SK. why is it okay, by your own words, for peopel to change their mind yet apparently that applys to everyone but your snookums. why do you apparently find me so threatening in this game, Aust, that you keep trying to keep me arguing with you about various things??

 

again, with the lists, provide a quote where i said those specific words Aust! this is a 2nd time i've asked you to do so. day 1 our arguement was about whether the situation would make the scum off balance.

 

little heed to logic?! are you even reading my posts. how else did i explain my reasonings for believing a SK in the game other than use of Logic? how else, other than the use of Logic have i already describe how i believe all members of the remaining anti-town faction have a good probablility of being in the list?

 

not that again, we have someone who is trying to detere us from a lynch of someone on the list! first Talm with Leelou, now Aust with me out of left field. distraction technique much. gee, i guess one doesn't have to wonder too hard why your trying so hard Aust, after all your name is on the list isn't it. whats even funnier is that your deciding to split hairs with me rather than discuss the most important piece of info which is the list. no, instead your trying to discredit me in hopes people ignore my words Aust.

 

 

 

well, i didnt think it mattered since we are all dead and your disagreement with Aemon was rather public. i was pointing that even though you and aemon disagreed and you named him scummy, he wasnt scum. it was an example of you FOS'ing someone who disagreed with you but turned out innocent.

 

i didn't call him scum, i named him a false Dragon; which he was Blackhoof. your twisting fact and alot of the players in this game wer or are in that game; which makes yourself look even worse. if your gonna mettagame, atleast get your facts straight.

 

 

unless you'd like to argue that side Blackie which again i'd advise you not to unless you want to be lynched.

 

is that... *grin* a threat?

 

no its a word of advise. if you want to argue the "a cop outting a scum is just a disagreement between players" angle; go ahead and put that noose aroudn your neck when a cop reveals, outs a scum and you try it. don't say anyone didn't warn you though

[alannalynn]

this leaves CS & Talms as potential innocents and these are the two i'd be less willing to vote. Talms is higher on my list than CS because today he tried (& almsot succeeded too) in getting us to lynch womone not on our list where it's most likely to find a scum

you know, another thing comes to mind.

 

if i were scum and were in this situation, i'd try to destract away from the whole list idea. especially considering that our chances of hitting scum are between 40% to 95% (2 scum beign the least amount on the lynch to achieve a NK, 5 scum being the most)

 

major FOS at Talm for attempting to focus a lynch on someone not on the list and less likely to be scum

What I quoted is something small, but it bothered me nonetheless... I don't know, Aust may be on to something with you Red and you're talking way too much by yourself right now for comfort. Most of the times when I see your walls o' text, I just want to skim over despite you having good ideas sometimes, but you have done a total 360 with your thinking and it looks like you enjoy contradicting yourself. You kept sticking out to me Day 1, mainly because you were narrowminded (along with Aust) and that is unlike you from what I've seen. FOS at Red.

 

I do believe that Drew is a good candidate for today though, because of his slip up, being on the list, and because this lynch is going so damn slow all of a sudden. I'm not trying to rush a lynch, but I would like some more pressure. Vote Drew, that should be L3. I've gotten into a bad habit of not supporting any lynch lately...

[csarmi]

As I don't think I'll get support for a leelou lynch (we're using the short list right now?), here's my take:

 

1) UNVOTE

 

2) I'm okay fine with voting Drew as he's high on my shortlist anyway.

[csarmi]

I think that's an L-2, so proceed with caution. We're supposed to hear from Drew still.

[csarmi]

AJ:

 

It's not my place to defend Red, but I think I understand her.

She's kind of assuming that five(!) (maybe four?) out of the six on the shortlist are scum. So that leaves place for only one (maybe two) innocents there and she's trying to figure out who those are.

 

While I don't agree with her assumption (as I've stated before), I think that explains the bolded text in your post.

[MrLiterate]

Hi everybody - thanks for the welcome, Red.

 

I don't want to jump on Drew until we have some sort of explanation for the whole 'my scum team' slip. From what I see, if I were to vote for Drew then somebody else could jump in and get him killed at the last minute (and if he isn't mafia, that'd be bad news and I'd probably get the blame). I'll increase the pressure on leelou then, spread the pain a bit until we get an explanation for the whole ninjavote thing.

 

Vote Leelou

[Leelou]

I do believe looking at the short list is our best option for today. Talmanes is pinging me for the same reasons he is pinging other people and for other reasons as well. It has to do with mainly your voting. I do not believe you are the best option for today, I do believe that is Drew.

 

Drew latched on very quickly to your vote on me in a way to distract from the tactic that was being discussed that the short list is the best way to find a scum. Csarmi, you were close to follow as well.

 

BGs numbers actually were not that difficult to understand. He was just saying that there are numerous possibilities of combinations as to who could be on scum a or b team.

 

I have no idea what BGs numbers mean, but Tal's argument makes sense to me. Looking at those three in iso (Song, BG, Leelou) gives me a little bit of a ping, but not much. Songs seems to be relatively rational so far, though her vote didn't have much substance. BGs vote is based on, "I said I would vote for Berf or Blackhoof!" but that is meaningless when he never really explicitly said why he'd vote for those two. Leelou's reason is weak as well, though she seems to just be agreeing with earlier arguments against Berf. But the fact that she was the hammer is the most interesting. It would be a ballsy move for mafia to hammer so quickly, but as we know with the NK rule it might have been worth the risk. But then, if Leelou was on the team with only two members left, it would be extra risky of her to jump on that lynch and risk being killed. But that's all speculation.

 

We really have no idea what's going on yet. I was just trying to narrow down the possibilities, but last night's kill could have been from the scum team with two left, from the team with three left, both teams could have been on the lynch and one didn't submit or the healer succeeded, neither team could have been on the lynch but there's an SK, or lots of other variations. We just have no idea. Right now I'm going to vote Leelou based on the hammer vote until she gives us something more substantial to work with.

 

I have one other idea about what's going on, but I want to save that for a while.

 

Drew, care to share your other idea?

[csarmi]

Drew latched on very quickly to your vote on me in a way to distract from the tactic that was being discussed that the short list is the best way to find a scum. Csarmi, you were close to follow as well.

 

Leelou, I voted you for my own reasons, not because others did so and certainly not to lead people away from the shortlist.

 

Actually, the only reason I didn't do it sooner is that at first I didn't realize that you should have realized that you were casting the hammer vote.

I still can't believe someone would cast the hammer like that...

[csarmi]

As for BG's numbers, I think they served little more than confusion. Anything in maths that can't be explained in a few select sentences is NOT worth explaining. Your model is overcomplicated, most like.

[mmeeshal]

Well, I'm not going to jump in and hammer Drew yet, till we've heard from him, but I do still think he's the best candidate for a lynch.

[csarmi]

Yea well when I posted my vote for Drew, AJ haven't posted yet (we posted simultanously) and I thought I'd be putting him on L-3 only.

I'm uncomfortable with that L-1 before we hear from him, so I UNVOTE.

 

I'm willing to vote Drew and I think he's the best candidate for the lynch too, but we still got 24h left so there is no hurry.

 

I might look like a fool with all that vote/unvote but I don't care.

[csarmi]

Unofficial Vote Count

 

Leelou (3) - Talmanes, Drew, MrLiterate(Song)

Drew (6) - Blackhoof, Curt, BG, Red, AJ, leelou

Red (1) - Aust

 

Not Voting (4): Krak, Player, Meesh(*), csarmi(*)

 

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch

 

DEADLINE: THURSDAY, APRIL 14 @ 4PM CST.

 

* would vote, but not just yet

[bgrishinko]

Yea well when I posted my vote for Drew, AJ haven't posted yet (we posted simultanously) and I thought I'd be putting him on L-3 only.

I'm uncomfortable with that L-1 before we hear from him, so I UNVOTE.

 

I'm willing to vote Drew and I think he's the best candidate for the lynch too, but we still got 24h left so there is no hurry.

 

I might look like a fool with all that vote/unvote but I don't care.

 

Agreed, we still have a whole day, why not hear from him first? UNVOTE

[bgrishinko]

As I don't think I'll get support for a leelou lynch (we're using the short list right now?), here's my take:

 

1) UNVOTE

 

2) I'm okay fine with voting Drew as he's high on my shortlist anyway.

 

 

I think that's an L-2, so proceed with caution. We're supposed to hear from Drew still.

 

 

Yea well when I posted my vote for Drew, AJ haven't posted yet (we posted simultanously) and I thought I'd be putting him on L-3 only.

I'm uncomfortable with that L-1 before we hear from him, so I UNVOTE.

 

I'm willing to vote Drew and I think he's the best candidate for the lynch too, but we still got 24h left so there is no hurry.

 

I might look like a fool with all that vote/unvote but I don't care.

 

Which is it csarmi? You knew it was L-2, later you thought it was only L-3? Waiting for teammates? Vote csarmi.

[bgrishinko]

Grrr.... Vote csarmi