Mesaana healed?

[Nezrall]

We all know that Graendal is one of the most renowned healers in the AoLs, with an uncanny knowledge of the mind and of any mental afflictions even use of the One Power could not cure. You think Graendal will be asked by Moridin to do a favor for Mesaana, in her current mental state after her battle with Egwene? I won't doubt it but who knows :)

 

Any thoughts?

[herid]

We all know that Graendal is one of the most renowned healers in the AoLs, with an uncanny knowledge of the mind and of any mental afflictions even use of the One Power could not cure. You think Graendal will be asked by Moridin to do a favor for Mesaana, in her current mental state after her battle with Egwene? I won't doubt it but who knows :)

 

Any thoughts?

this is an interesting idea. I find it much more plausible than the other suggestions I've seen about some Forsaken coming back in aMoL. but I'm certain this won't happen. I don't see any of the Forsaken coming back at all. The Forsaken are being slowly (very slowly- at most one per book) killed in the last few books. There is only one book left and 5 Forsaken to dispose of. Unless they are going to be summarily machine gunned at the same time (which I don't foresee happening) their deaths and plotlines around them would have to take some considerable screen time. there is so much material to cover in aMoL I don't see how BS is going to manage it in one book as it is. No way he is going to bring any of the already disposed of Forsaken back.

[Kal-El814]

I think it's highly unlikely. For as skilled as the Forsaken/Aes Sedai were at Healing within the Age of Legends, things like stilling/gentling were considered un-healable. With that in mind, I don't think Graendal would be able to do anything, assuming that she'll ever be free of whatever punishment she got in ToM. I guess it's possible that someone from the Third Age (Nynavae, Damer) could do something about Mesaana, but... why would they?

[b3arz3rg3r]

We all know that Graendal is one of the most renowned healers in the AoLs, with an uncanny knowledge of the mind and of any mental afflictions even use of the One Power could not cure. You think Graendal will be asked by Moridin to do a favor for Mesaana, in her current mental state after her battle with Egwene? I won't doubt it but who knows :)

 

Any thoughts?

this is an interesting idea. I find it much more plausible than the other suggestions I've seen about some Forsaken coming back in aMoL. but I'm certain this won't happen. I don't see any of the Forsaken coming back at all. The Forsaken are being slowly (very slowly- at most one per book) killed in the last few books. There is only one book left and 5 Forsaken to dispose of. Unless they are going to be summarily machine gunned at the same time (which I don't foresee happening) their deaths and plotlines around them would have to take some considerable screen time. there is so much material to cover in aMoL I don't see how BS is going to manage it in one book as it is. No way he is going to bring any of the already disposed of Forsaken back.

 

Is there really any problem with several of the Forsaken falling in a single battle? Couldn't let's say Graendal, Ishamael and Demandred fall in Rand's attack on Shayol Ghul? Logain could kill Demandred, giving him the hero status he should have as the future leader of the male channellers, Ishamael falling to Rand and Graendal falling to whichever circle lead by a main female is free? Lanfear might if my suspicions about her being part of the sealing team of the bore are correct die from the backlash and Moghedien, well who honestly cares about Moghedien. Even should she survive she wouldn't be of any importance.

[herid]

We all know that Graendal is one of the most renowned healers in the AoLs, with an uncanny knowledge of the mind and of any mental afflictions even use of the One Power could not cure. You think Graendal will be asked by Moridin to do a favor for Mesaana, in her current mental state after her battle with Egwene? I won't doubt it but who knows :)

 

Any thoughts?

this is an interesting idea. I find it much more plausible than the other suggestions I've seen about some Forsaken coming back in aMoL. but I'm certain this won't happen. I don't see any of the Forsaken coming back at all. The Forsaken are being slowly (very slowly- at most one per book) killed in the last few books. There is only one book left and 5 Forsaken to dispose of. Unless they are going to be summarily machine gunned at the same time (which I don't foresee happening) their deaths and plotlines around them would have to take some considerable screen time. there is so much material to cover in aMoL I don't see how BS is going to manage it in one book as it is. No way he is going to bring any of the already disposed of Forsaken back.

 

Is there really any problem with several of the Forsaken falling in a single battle? Couldn't let's say Graendal, Ishamael and Demandred fall in Rand's attack on Shayol Ghul? Logain could kill Demandred, giving him the hero status he should have as the future leader of the male channellers, Ishamael falling to Rand and Graendal falling to whichever circle lead by a main female is free? Lanfear might if my suspicions about her being part of the sealing team of the bore are correct die from the backlash and Moghedien, well who honestly cares about Moghedien. Even should she survive she wouldn't be of any importance.

I must say this is not what I'd like to see (I think they all deserve a separate death scene) but yes, I admit, something like this might happen. but even then if you bring back one of the Forsaken you need to develop a plotline around the issue. It can't just be that somebody comes back and then is quickly killed off again. they need to be given something interesting to do. otherwise there is no point to bringing them back at all. all of this would take a lot of precious screen time of which there is very little left.

[Sharaman]

The "cleanest" way to revive Messi would be to have somebody kill her sans BF. (I think) Luckers posted an interesting theory that maybe she could be mindtrapped regardless of being a vegetable.

But I also don't see why they need separate death scenes - they might evaporate like the Nazgul.

[ranjitb]

No - for two reasons.

One, as has been pointed out, the forsaken HAVE to be killed off or disposed off. With one book remaining we still have Demandred, Ishamael, Cyndane, Grandael, and Moghedien to deal with.

* Incidentally this was my main argument for why the !OMG!Grandael!is!alive! theory was pointless - I was wrong there, but at least we swapped the lives of Grandael with Halima, still knocking down the # of forsaken by 1.

 

Second, and most importantly, it would nullify the greatest accomplishment of All-Mother Al'Vere, which will never, ever be allowed to happen.

[Dakota]

From a reader's stance, no, it's not going to happen, because as others mentioned, there's one book left in the series and too much to cover as is, without going back and 'bringing back out-of-commission' forsakens.

 

From an in-world stance, unlikely. If the AS don't execute her, they'll keep her under lock-and-key under close observation for the forseeable future. And as far as executing her, when they had Moghedein captured, there was talk and threats about taking her back to the Tower to stand trial, implying that even for a Forsaken there would be some sort of trial before executing her. Being a vegetable, Mesaana wouldn't be able to defend herself at said trial, and even more than that I don't see the AS as the type to execute a vegetable.

[Kal-El814]

From a reader's stance, no, it's not going to happen, because as others mentioned, there's one book left in the series and too much to cover as is, without going back and 'bringing back out-of-commission' forsakens.

 

From an in-world stance, unlikely. If the AS don't execute her, they'll keep her under lock-and-key under close observation for the forseeable future. And as far as executing her, when they had Moghedein captured, there was talk and threats about taking her back to the Tower to stand trial, implying that even for a Forsaken there would be some sort of trial before executing her. Being a vegetable, Mesaana wouldn't be able to defend herself at said trial, and even more than that I don't see the AS as the type to execute a vegetable.

 

I think the latter wouldn't necessarily apply when we consider how Egwene handled the people confirmed to be Black Ajah. If Mesaana was alive and coherent they may be tempted to keep her alive to learn from her, but I don't see any reason why they would execute "vanilla" Black Ajah but keep one of the Forsaken alive.

[Luckers]

I sort of liked the idea that Mesaana might have been bound by a mindtrap due to her 'failures' in reguards to the ousting of the Black Ajah (note her grandiose claims in the tGS prologue). Then the mindtrap could have been broken by Moridin and her body used like a puppet, perhaps on a kamikazi mission in the Tower (the mindtrap destroys the mind when broken, so presumably it doesn't need the mind to work in its broken form).

 

Would've been a nice twist and pay off to the gun on the mantle that is the cour'souvra being broken, but I think it's pretty unlikely. Mesaana, in my opinion, is out of the story.

[zidfrekle]

I'm typing this up at work, so I can't think of the exact point in the book, but somewhere in ToM, I remember reading something where

Nynaeve learns to Heal Madness and tries it on Rand

and he says that from his memories this wasn't possible in the AoL. If I am remembering it correctly, then that would mean even Graendal wouldn't know how to heal her mind from certain things.

[Terez]

Indeed, she was more of a psychotherapist than a Healer. She worked specifically with mental diseases that could not be treated by the Power, and she might have 'Healed' some of them after her turning using Compulsion.

[Zentari]

Hm, True Power was used to 'heal' LTT before he killed himself so it's not totally unlikely that it can 'heal' other things too.Why would Moridin do so for someone who has failed him is another matter altogether and to be frank I don't see the advantage of having one more to keep in check.

[Aquarius]

We all know that Graendal is one of the most renowned healers in the AoLs, with an uncanny knowledge of the mind and of any mental afflictions even use of the One Power could not cure. You think Graendal will be asked by Moridin to do a favor for Mesaana, in her current mental state after her battle with Egwene? I won't doubt it but who knows :)

 

Any thoughts?

Semirhage is the renowed healer in the AoL, not Graendal. Semi is the "only one living with the skill to remove Sammael's scar". But yes, Graendal is the mental illness expert. Question is: is it "only" mental illness or is her soul really dead.

[Entreri]

Only one that could would be Nyaneve and I do not see that happening. Messana is gone.

 

Nynaeve cured madness, and can really delve into the mind.

[Nezrall]

We all know that Graendal is one of the most renowned healers in the AoLs, with an uncanny knowledge of the mind and of any mental afflictions even use of the One Power could not cure. You think Graendal will be asked by Moridin to do a favor for Mesaana, in her current mental state after her battle with Egwene? I won't doubt it but who knows :)

 

Any thoughts?

Semirhage is the renowed healer in the AoL, not Graendal. Semi is the "only one living with the skill to remove Sammael's scar". But yes, Graendal is the mental illness expert. Question is: is it "only" mental illness or is her soul really dead.

 

I said "one of" and not "only" renowned healer. Yes, while Semirhage was renowned in healing the body, Graendal was renowned for her specialty of the mind. That makes her a renowned healer too. Anyways regarding Mesaana, her soul could be affected too, though not sure how deep.

 

Only one that could would be Nyaneve and I do not see that happening. Messana is gone.

 

Nynaeve cured madness, and can really delve into the mind.

 

Perhaps Egwene might let Nynaeve delve Mesaana to see if she can extract all that AoLs knowledge from her, and in the process "accidentally" restores her :) lol . But like what the majority agreed on, its the last book already and any hopes of returning a destroyed forsaken would be pointless.

[Aquarius]

One could also argue that if her soul is "dead" like if her body had been destroyed too, then there is the usual window of opportunity for the DO to snatch up her soul and put it in a fresh new body... I'm not sure how much credibility I would put into that thought, but who knows...

[Nezrall]

One could also argue that if her soul is "dead" like if her body had been destroyed too, then there is the usual window of opportunity for the DO to snatch up her soul and put it in a fresh new body... I'm not sure how much credibility I would put into that thought, but who knows...

 

Yep, she was never balefired. That could leave an interesting plot twist for a spin-off if BS so desired.

[mb]

I guess Mesaana was killed by Graendal in either Chapter 37 or 38 of Towers of Midnight. Since Encyclopaedia's page for the Epilogue notes to it.

 

Arangar I found out was balefired by Rand in the Prologue.

 

 

Edit:: I do not yet have the book. This info I gotten from Encyclopaedia's pages.

[Kestrel]

I guess Mesaana was killed by Graendal in either Chapter 37 or 38 of Towers of Midnight. Since Encyclopaedia's page for the Epilogue notes to it.

 

Arangar I found out was balefired by Rand in the Prologue.

 

 

Edit:: I do not yet have the book. This info I gotten from Encyclopaedia's pages.

The encyclopaedia pages for ToM are still under construction. Your info regarding Mesaana is not correct. RAFO. I won't spoil it for you.

[mb]

The encyclopaedia pages for ToM are still under construction. Your info regarding Mesaana is not correct. RAFO. I won't spoil it for you.

I knew that the pages are under construction when I made the post.

Then Mesaana's death occurs somewhere within chapters 39 through 57. I now guess in an Egwene POV (Chapter 56).

[Terez]

She doesn't die in the book at all, so far as we know.

[mb]

She doesn't die in the book at all, so far as we know.

Her death for sure occurs before the time frame of Graendal's epilogue POV since the Encyclopaedia site mentions it there.

[Kestrel]

Her death for sure occurs before the time frame of Graendal's epilogue POV since the Encyclopaedia site mentions it there.

 

The encyclopedia is still under construction, and mis-states what happened. The ToM epilogue page must not have been run through its quality-control check yet, or the error would have been corrected.

 

Here's what the book REALLY says. Note the word "die" is not used. Then, please, RAFO.

 

In the epilogue:

 

"Mesaana has fallen," Shaidar Haran whispered. "Three Chosen, destroyed by your actions. The design builds, a lattice of failure, a framework of incompetence."

 

"I had nothing to do with Mesaana's fall!" [Greandal protested.]

 

In the Glossary we find:

 

A ruthless killer, [Graendal] was responsible for the deaths of Aran'gar and Asmodean and for the destruction of Mesaana.

[Terez]

She doesn't die in the book at all, so far as we know.

Her death for sure occurs before the time frame of Graendal's epilogue POV since the Encyclopaedia site mentions it there.

Even when it is not under construction, the Encyclopaedia is far from canon. There are mistakes in it, and there are debatable interpretations in it sometimes which are stated as facts.

 

PS - That is not to say that the Encyclopaedia is not badass, because it is. It's just not perfect. WoT's not perfect either - the Encyclopaedia notes many of the changes that have been made in new editions - but the difference is that WoT is canon (even when self-contradictory).