Thoughts on Logain

[Phelix]

Was that in an RJ quote somewhere? I can't find it anywhere online. What was the source of that?

 

Also, a personal name of four letters becoming the first half of a national name after two thousand years doesn't really illustrate the point you were trying to make. Great Arvalon sounding like, looking like, a corruption of Tar Valon, and both being names of powerful cities is a completely different situation.

[Terez]

Was that in an RJ quote somewhere? I can't find it anywhere online. What was the source of that?

Moiraine.

[Phelix]

Was that in an RJ quote somewhere? I can't find it anywhere online. What was the source of that?

Moiraine.

 

 

Where though? The name isn't listed anywhere that I can find.

 

http://wot.wikia.com/wiki/Manetheren

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Wheel_of_Time_locations#Manetheren

http://encyclopaedia-wot.org/history/manetheren/index.html

http://www.sevenspokes.com/chronology/3rd-ab.html

http://www.wotpedia.com/wiki/index.php?title=Manetheren&printable=yes

 

I mean, I'd expect at least the encyclopedia WoT to catch it. They're usually quite good. They even list out all the in series cannonical references through Crossroads of Twilight.

 

Am I missing it somewhere?

[Terez]

Am I missing it somewhere?

Yes. Do you know how to use Ideal Seek? It's in TEOTW.

[Phelix]

Am I missing it somewhere?

Yes. Do you know how to use Ideal Seek? It's in TEOTW.

 

I didn't know Ideal Seek existed... useful tool. Thanks for pointing it out to me!

 

So, I used it to search for "Arad," "Manetheren" and "King" and got precisely 0 results.

 

http://idealseek.no-ip.com/IdealSeek.cgi?q=Arad%2C+Manetheren%2C+King

 

"Manetheren" and "Arad" also brings 0 results.

 

http://idealseek.no-ip.com/IdealSeek.cgi?q=Manetheren%2C+Arad

 

It wasn't until I just searched for "Arad" that it shows up.

 

http://idealseek.no-ip.com/IdealSeek.cgi?q=Arad&t=4&c=0&p=0&d=1

 

And the quote is "The blood of Arad's line is still strong in the Two Rivers." Moiraine doesn't go into any further explanation... also, Ideal Seek's page numbers don't match my book. Maybe I have an earlier version. Anyhoo.

 

It doesn't say who Arad was, what he did, or why he was significant... or why it's his line in the Two Rivers. Was this ever clarified?

[zidfrekle]

I like the idea of Elaida's tower becoming the Ashaman's new home after Taim goes down. The White Tower is too much of a symbol to be destroyed during/after the LB. I think it also gives a new home for the Kinswomen that Elayne has invited to stay in Andor....they'll still need somewhere to live, and I'm sure Elayne would prefer them to occupy the Black Tower rather than the Ashaman.

[Terez]

And the quote is "The blood of Arad's line is still strong in the Two Rivers." Moiraine doesn't go into any further explanation... also, Ideal Seek's page numbers don't match my book. Maybe I have an earlier version. Anyhoo.

 

It doesn't say who Arad was, what he did, or why he was significant... or why it's his line in the Two Rivers. Was this ever clarified?

No, just implied that he was the progenitor of Manetheren. It's in response to Mat speaking the Old Tongue, and we can take the implication rather literally in light of the memories Mat had when he was in the Tower.

[Phelix]

And the quote is "The blood of Arad's line is still strong in the Two Rivers." Moiraine doesn't go into any further explanation... also, Ideal Seek's page numbers don't match my book. Maybe I have an earlier version. Anyhoo.

 

It doesn't say who Arad was, what he did, or why he was significant... or why it's his line in the Two Rivers. Was this ever clarified?

No, just implied that he was the progenitor of Manetheren. It's in response to Mat speaking the Old Tongue, and we can take the implication rather literally in light of the memories Mat had when he was in the Tower.

 

I'm normally all for inferences, but the fact that Moiraine did not mention any title, when she spent a good chunk of the book giving out a history of Manetheren, and the fact that Arad is never mentioned anywhere else, even though the name of the Queen who brought Manetheren into the 10 Nations is mentioned elsewhere... it doesn't look good. I'm very hesitant to make an assumption based on a single line of text with no other support.

 

Also, his memories in the Tower tend to speak more toward Aemon than anyone else.

[78WARLOCK]

I took it as something like Logain will find Demandred posing as Rand and kick the guys ass. Im way more down for Logain vs Demandred than Logain vs Taim. Taim would kick Logains ass in my oppinion.

 

If Logain was linked up with his AS, Taim would not kick his ass. It would be the other way around. In my View that is the entire reason for him bonding 2, where the others bonded only 1. Logain is only a little less than Rand, Taim is even closer to Rand in the Power, but with a circle with 2 AS, Logain should more than match Taim.

 

Must also keep in mind Logain learned new weaves at Algarins Manor in TKoD when the thousands of trollocs attacked and Lews Therin took control of the power from Rand.Logain comments,"were you going to keep those weaves a secret?"

With the division in the tower and Rand now "sane" with all those memories,does he send Logain back to re-unite the Tower with new knowlege from his "new" memories?

[MasterAblar]

I took it as something like Logain will find Demandred posing as Rand and kick the guys ass. Im way more down for Logain vs Demandred than Logain vs Taim. Taim would kick Logains ass in my oppinion.

 

If Logain was linked up with his AS, Taim would not kick his ass. It would be the other way around. In my View that is the entire reason for him bonding 2, where the others bonded only 1. Logain is only a little less than Rand, Taim is even closer to Rand in the Power, but with a circle with 2 AS, Logain should more than match Taim.

 

Must also keep in mind Logain learned new weaves at Algarins Manor in TKoD when the thousands of trollocs attacked and Lews Therin took control of the power from Rand.Logain comments,"were you going to keep those weaves a secret?"

With the division in the tower and Rand now "sane" with all those memories,does he send Logain back to re-unite the Tower with new knowlege from his "new" memories?

 

Hopefully he'll go back himself. In ToM, he hinted that he would have to at some point.

[louigie15]

At the end of ToM,we see that Camlyn is burning.Will Logain and his loyal followers along with the Band save it from total destruction?What will be his glory as forseen by Min?

 

I think you are all correct in some regard. Elida's unfinished project will become the home of the Ashaman, Logain will lead the Ashaman channelers in helping the Aes Sedai save the White Tower from the Seanchan, and because of all this he will become the head of the new reformed Male Aes Sedai.

 

First though he will have to kick Taim's behind in the Black Tower helping to preserve Elain's Kingdom.

[MasterAblar]

At the end of ToM,we see that Camlyn is burning.Will Logain and his loyal followers along with the Band save it from total destruction?What will be his glory as forseen by Min?

 

I think you are all correct in some regard. Elida's unfinished project will become the home of the Ashaman, Logain will lead the Ashaman channelers in helping the Aes Sedai save the White Tower from the Seanchan, and because of all this he will become the head of the new reformed Male Aes Sedai.

 

First though he will have to kick Taim's behind in the Black Tower helping to preserve Elain's Kingdom.

 

Well, unfortunately, I dissagree with most of the first part of what you said. I don't believe the Ashaman will be going to Tar Valon.

 

Also I doubt Taim will let all his hard work go to waste. I think he'll get himself and most of his men out of the BT when Rand and Logain return.

[hurryupnwait]

At the end of ToM,we see that Camlyn is burning.Will Logain and his loyal followers along with the Band save it from total destruction?What will be his glory as forseen by Min?

 

I think you are all correct in some regard. Elida's unfinished project will become the home of the Ashaman, Logain will lead the Ashaman channelers in helping the Aes Sedai save the White Tower from the Seanchan, and because of all this he will become the head of the new reformed Male Aes Sedai.

 

First though he will have to kick Taim's behind in the Black Tower helping to preserve Elain's Kingdom.

 

Well, unfortunately, I dissagree with most of the first part of what you said. I don't believe the Ashaman will be going to Tar Valon.

 

Also I doubt Taim will let all his hard work go to waste. I think he'll get himself and most of his men out of the BT when Rand and Logain return.

[hurryupnwait]

I still think we will see a black tower in Tar Valon. That said if memory serves Master Ablar and I agreed to disagree so I will leave it at that.

 

I believe that Perrin will need to be involved in the black tower showdown as well. Upon learning from Grady that travel to the black tower will not work Perrin puts visiting the black tower in the wolf dream on his to do list.

 

I also think this will be the second time in Min's vision that Perrin will need to be there for Rand to avert disaster. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

[master]

I'd rather have the seanchan take over than the black tower built in tar valon. I find the arrogance that the tower is the only legitimate organisation for channelers a bit irritating. Even Egwene is trying to bind the seafolk and the aiel channelers, however long that would take. I'd rather have all channelers be able to stay independant or join each group as they want/ With oversight by a new hall of the servants.

[Suttree]

I find the arrogance that the tower is the only legitimate organisation for channelers a bit irritating

 

In point of fact Egwene says the opposite...

 

ToM Ch. 36

"The world as it was cannot be ours any longer," Egwene said softly, not wanting the Wise Ones to overhear. "Was it ever? The Black Tower bonds Aes Sedai, the Aiel no longer revere us, the Windfinders have hidden their best channelers from us for centuries and are becoming increasingly belligerent. If we try to hold too tightly to all of this, we will either become tyrants or fools, depending upon how successful we are. I accept neither title.

 

 

 

Even Egwene is trying to bind the seafolk and the aiel channelers, however long that would take. I'd rather have all channelers be able to stay independant or join each group as they want...

 

How is that not what's happening? The channeler exchange program is an even trade that will foster greater understanding and cooperation for all the groups. It will most certainly improve the AS with the most promising accepted apprenticing with Wise Ones and Windfinders.

[TheAngryDruid]

Count me as one who fully endorses the idea of the remnants of the Asha'man moving to Tar Valon, into Elaida's palace, when all the dust settles. I think the BT will be destroyed (or near so) in the battle of Caemlyn. And Elayne doesn't want them there besides. Egwene has already had thought of uniting all the WOMEN who can channel, but never a thought for the men. It's a natural evolution in thinking. Especially with all the cross-bonding and good works Nynaeve has done. Nyneave can cure their (partial) insanity, and Flinn can restore stilled women to full strength. And how often have we heart the line about the greatest works were men and women working together?

 

As for Master Logain. I do believe he is laying low, watching the BT in some fashion. And will make his play there soon. Hopefully it is on screen. And I think he'll be the leader of the AM after Taim gets taken out.

 

But, where in the heck is he, at present?

[FarShainMael]

A thought: A woman cannot hide her ability to channel from another female channeller, but a man has to be 'inspected' for resonance, as Taim did when testing potential recruits. Is Logain hiding in plain sight in the Tower?

[MasterAblar]

A thought: A woman cannot hide her ability to channel from another female channeller, but a man has to be 'inspected' for resonance, as Taim did when testing potential recruits. Is Logain hiding in plain sight in the Tower?

 

A woman can hide her ability to channel with a certain weave if I remember correctly.

 

If Logain is hiding in the BT then he must be using disguising himself with the power.

[XXX]

Does Logain know how to disguise himself with the power?...AFAIK among saiden users only Rand and now Grady knows how to disguise themselves with the power other than the male forsaken.

[FarShainMael]

You don't necessarily have to use the Power to disguise yourself..

[MasterAblar]

Does Logain know how to disguise himself with the power?...AFAIK among saiden users only Rand and now Grady knows how to disguise themselves with the power other than the male forsaken.

 

Naeff, not Grady.

 

You don't necessarily have to use the Power to disguise yourself..

 

I suppose you don't, but Logain would have to go to extreme measures to hide himself. I'm guessing people know him pretty well at this point in the BT. Perhaps if he cut his hair.

[FarShainMael]

Or shaved off his beard.. Oops, no, he doesn't have one. Grow one maybe

[andrewks]

I believe that Logain's glory won't necessarily be tied to a single event, but more of a memory of him. Throughout most of the series he was vilified as being evil and destructive as a False Dragon, but he is actually a pretty good guy serving the light. I think Randland will see that when all is said and done, and that will be his glory of being a hero of the light.

[FarShainMael]

I'm intrigued by the fact that the colours in the 'aura of glory' that Min Views on Logain are blue and gold (TSR17; TSR47; TFoH1). I can see two possible things that it might indicate.

 

Firstly, Logain has taken to wearing an enamelled pin on his shoulder showing three golden crowns in a field of blue (KoD,Ch18). This may relate to his former status as a minor lord of Ghealdan (whose queen, Alliandre, is now sworn to Perrin).

 

Secondly, Taim now wears a black coat with blue and gold dragons on the sleeves (LoC28, LoC55, ACoS2, TPoD29, WH Prologue, KoD Epilogue) and uses a seal in the shape of a dragon impressed in a large oval of blue wax glittering with golden flecks (TPoD14).

 

The second seems more likely to me, indicating Logain ousting Taim. Possibly he could take the Ghealdan crown, but I don't think that's likely or even possible.