tuathuon Song

[Mandro]

Now that rand isn't a complete wack job, is he able to remember what "the song" might be?

[capuga]

Now that rand isn't a complete wack job, is he able to remember what "the song" might be?

 

There is no "Song". There is the seed singing (which he may remember now) and the Tinkers looking for a way back to the ways of the dashain Aiel when they used to sing. This has become romantized into searching for the "Song". Luckers did a good break down of this on its own thread somewhere. See if you can search and find it. Its a much better explanation than mine.

[capuga]

Found Luckers thread. Decided to just repost here instead of providing a link. Here ya go:

 

Demystifying the Song

 

The Song is one of the favourite topics for discussion amongst the fans, with theories ranging from how Perrin will find it, how the Aiel who went to the Tuatha’an will find it, how Rand will use it to sing close the bore, and half a hundred other things as well. But whilst people love to think about the finding and use of the Song, very rarely do people actually consider the Song itself.

 

What is the Song?

 

Elyas describes the Song thus...

 

They're looking for a song. That's what the Mahdi seeks. They say they lost it during the Breaking of the World, and if they can find it again, the paradise of the Age of Legends will return.

 

[tEotW; 25, The Traveling People]

 

So a Song which will bring peace and return the world to the paradise it knew in the Age of Legends. Unfortunately for the Tuatha’an this Song does not, and never has existed. We see the origins of this belief in the Shadow Rising, when the Tuatha’an first broke away from the Aiel.

 

Sulwin stepped back, then held his ground with his companions. “No, Adan. We are supposed to find a place of safety, and some of us mean to do that. My greatfather used to tell me stories he heard as a boy, stories of when we lived in safety and people came to hear us sing. We mean to find a place where we can be safe, and sing again.”

 

“Sing?” Adan scoffed. “I have heard those old stories, too, that Aiel singing was a wondrous thing, but you know those old songs no more than I do. The songs are gone, and the old days are gone. We will not give up our duty to the Aes Sedai to chase after what is lost forever.”

 

“Some of us will, Adan.” The others behind Sulwin nodded. “We mean to find that safe place. And the songs, too. We will!”

 

[tSR; 26, The Dedicated]

 

In this it is made clear that the Song that what the Tinkers seek is not a magical song, but rather an expression of the desire of their Aiel forbearers to find a safe place and regain the culture they lost. It a symbol, not a real thing.

 

But What About the Seed Singing?

 

Ok, there is no Song which will magically bring back the Age of Legends, but it cannot be denied that the Aiel did do some pretty magical stuff with their singing. And whilst we know that the Tuatha'an belief that finding the song will bring back the Age of Legends is the result of a myth, we also know that there can be truth in myths. The Song--or rather, the Singing is a powerful thing, and something that RJ has layered into the story deeply between the Aiel not singing and the Tuatha'an's desire to regain that.

 

And lets not forget the current food crisis in the Westlands--people are dying in the thousands very soon due to the taint the Dark One (and Rand) has caused in food. It may well be that the 'Song', or rather the Singing will play its part in this. It is also noted that the Dai’shain Aiel’s singing could be used to enhance channeling, so the old theories about it being used to seal the bore and other such achievements might yet be true. But before you rush off down that path pause for a moment and consider the actual nature of the Seed Singing.

 

What is the Singing?

 

We know from The World of Robert Jordan’s The Wheel of Time that the Singing is a Talent that draws upon and focus’ the One Power through a vocalized song.

 

Farmland produced optimum yield through use of the One Power. In a method called "seed singing," Ogier (a separate race of beings gifted with the ability to aid and enhance growing things), Nym, and Da'shain Aiel worked as a team, focusing the One Power to insure perfect growth for every field they "sang."

 

[The Guide; 3, The Age of Legends]

 

It’s main use is as was stated above, in crop production, but from the Guide we also know that it could also be used to enhance channeling.

 

Sources are not clear concerning whether or not Da'shain Aiel could channel, though they do agree that the Aiel could often enhance channeling.

 

[The Guide; 3, The Age of Legends]

 

Whilst it seems the Aiel were primarily the only humans to use the Singing in the Seed Songs, there is some evidence that other people also had the Talent. Consider,

 

"Lord of the Morning," he said, "I have come for you."

 

The laughter cut off as if it had never been, and Lews Therin turned, seeming unsurprised. "Ah, a guest. Have you the Voice, stranger? It will soon be time for the Singing, and here all are welcome to take part. Ilyena, my love, we have a guest. Ilyena, where are you?"

 

[tEotW; Prologue, Dragonmount]

 

Of course Lews Therin was delusional at this stage, and so may have thought he was talking to an Aiel—he may even have just been talking gibberish—but it doesn’t sound that way. All who have the Voice are welcome to take part in the Singing—it implies that the Voice does crop up in other people if for the simple fact that an Aiel would already know he was welcome to the Singing.

 

The Singing Returns; a Bundle of Problems

 

Ok, so the Singing could be very beneficial in all the ways listed above, but there are problems. For starters the Singing is not using magical words to cause effect, it is the vocal expression of a talent. The words do not matter--indeed they dont even seem to be words in the Song, it is the power behind them which causes the effect.

 

Discovering it will not be as simple as having one of the Tuatha’an walk the Glass Columns, hear the words, and repeat it. They will need the Talent of the Voice, and even then it might take training with someone else with the Talent—this is the One Power we are talking about. It kills those that don’t know how to use it properly, and that’s presuming the Talent even remains in the gene pool—which, given the decline in Talents since the Age of Legends, may well be a pretty big presumption.

 

Secondly, say someone does rediscover the Talent, will it be effective? The Ogier never lost the Treesinging, yet the Talent declined so much that they could never hope to perform the roles they did in the Age of Legends. And the Nym are extinct—without them how effective will the modern Singers be?

 

Conclusions

 

The Song does not and never did exist, except as a symbol for the Tuatha’an. The Singing might be recovered but it may not be as simple as everyone thinks it will be, nor as effective. Even if it is I rather doubt the Tuatha’an will be impressed—indeed, they might be rather devastated. They’ve spent three thousand years chasing something that isn’t real. The revelation of the Singing may well destroy their hope for the Song, and through that, destroy them.

 

Some suggest, of course, that it might be the first step in the right direction. Yes, the Singing will not magically bring back the Age of Legends, but it will start a more natural reversion to AOL society. The problem with this, to my mind, is the same as the problem in suggesting Manetheren will come again. It goes against the themes RJ developed--the Wheel turns forward, not backwards, and the only way the Age of Legends will come again is when the Wheel turns around to the Second Age once more.

[Mandro]

thanks, I did a quick search, not very thorough so I figured I might have missed it checking the threads.

 

Thanks grayson.

 

A problem though.

 

"Sources are not clear concerning whether or not Da'shain Aiel could channel, though they do agree that the Aiel could often enhance channeling."

 

In the Collumns girls were tested at 13 and boys later taken to become AS, so the direct link to the OP and the singing doesn't seem to fit. Maybe It's just a sorta catalytic affect, who knows, but I am curious as to the actual origin of The Song.

[Wantanswers]

@ Mark Grayson Thank you for digging up this old thread. Thought it was lost, when the last version of Dragonmount was introduced.

 

I think Luckers was right about the Tree Singing and the Seed Singing. But I disagree that there is no Song to be found.

They're looking for a song. That's what the Mahdi seeks. They say they lost it during the Breaking of the World, and if they can find it again, the paradise of the Age of Legends will return.

 

[tEotW; 25, The Traveling People]

This is a résumé of a story the Mahdi once told to Elyas. This is Elyas interpretation, but it needn't be the words the Mahdi used. He might have ended his story with:

"The Song will be found and the days of old will return."

Every 3^th-ager would interprete "days of old" as "Age of Legends" and they all idealise the AoL.

 

Sulwin stepped back, then held his ground with his companions. “No, Adan. We are supposed to find a place of safety, and some of us mean to do that. My greatfather used to tell me stories he heard as a boy, stories of when we lived in safety and people came to hear us sing. We mean to find a place where we can be safe, and sing again.”

 

“Sing?” Adan scoffed. “I have heard those old stories, too, that Aiel singing was a wondrous thing, but you know those old songs no more than I do. The songs are gone, and the old days are gone. We will not give up our duty to the Aes Sedai to chase after what is lost forever.”

 

“Some of us will, Adan.” The others behind Sulwin nodded. “We mean to find that safe place. And the songs, too. We will!”

 

[tSR; 26, The Dedicated]

After seeking 3000 years, songs have changed in "The Song." Not surprising.

 

The Tinkers claim, they will know The Song, when they hear it.

Tree Singing isn't lost. Loyal has teached them, although that the trees never listen to people. Besides, the Tinkers said The Song wasn't among them.

Seed Singing isn't lost either. Rand, all Clan Chiefs and Wise Ones have seen them on screen in Rhuidean. (although I have some doubts about the Shaido Wise Ones)

Although we didn't see it on screen another Singing was mentioned in TSR, The Dedicated. It was mentioned in the conversation between Solinda Sedai and Jonai. It told us how 10.000 Dai'Shain Aiel defendeded Tzora, arms hooked together and singing. Singing untill they had all been killed by Jaric Mondoran. (no quote for I have only a Dutch translation of this book)

I do not only think this are the songs the Thuatha'an are looking for, I also believe the Aiel have to return to the Way of Leave before Tarmon Gai'don and sing this songs to obviate Aviendha's visions in the glass pillars. I haven't the slightest idea how the Aiel will learn these songs, because they avoid to ever speak with the Tinkers. Neither do I have any idea what or who the Aiel are going to defend with their singing.

 

Where can the Song be found

Although I can't be sure, I have reasons to believe they will be found in the neighbourhood of Ebou Dar:

1. All Thuata'an have gathered around Ebou Dar. They seem to have found their Place of Peace there.

2. Rand visited the Tinkers, changed cloth there and is since ever wearing the shirt he got there.

3. After using need in TAR, Egwene arrived in the Tinkers' camp

[herid]

Rand can certainly teach the Aiel the Song provided he has the talent. It's not altogether clear that he does. The quotes from Mark's post above indicate that not everybody has "the Voice". Also, Linda at the 13th depository suggests that the ability to sing is tied to the way of the leaf and only those following the Way can Sing.

http://13depository.blogspot.com/2001/07/aiel-need-to-adopt-way-of-leaf-before.html

 

There is at least some support for this notion since the only other known "Singers" are the Ogier who are extremely peaceful.

[TheAngryDruid]

Also, isn't it possible that Nym may also be required in Seed Singing. I believe there was a Nym (the Green Man) involved in the Seed Singing we see in TSR, correct?

 

Now, the question would be, was he just a bonus, or a necessary part?

[Hopefire]

While I agree with Lucker's analysis - there wasn't a specific "Song" in the Age of the Legends who rediscovery will bring back a new Age of Legends - I think that the possibility of there being a Song that will prove to be important in the overall scheme of things isn't unlikely.

 

I. The series was initially supposed to have been much shorter than it turned out to be. Therefore, hints as to how things are resolved should be found from the very early books in the series. The Song is one of the few items of the early series that was given weight but never built on in the second half of the series. It's basically Chekov's Gun on the wall.

 

II. Perrin spent the first half of the series wondering how to resist without fighting, since he hated fighting. His fate early on seemed associated to some extent with the Tinkers. Another Chekov's Gun that hasn't been put to full use.

 

III. The Pattern has been described as a living thing. The songs (lower-case) are used to cause and encourage growth in living things. There is currently a hole Bored into the Pattern.

 

Basically, I think that Perrin and the tinkers and some Aiel and the Ogier are going to be what actually Seals the Bore. The One Power will play a roll, and Rand will make some great sacrifice, but while the Song that the tinkers are looking for never actually existed in the Age of Legends, it'll exist at the end of the Third Age, and it'll be how the Dark One is resealed.

 

A myth based on a truth that became a legend that will become a truth.

[FarShainMael]

Rand Sedai will probably write it..

 

..hope it'll improve on

CoT Prologue.

[Entretamis]

i would love to see a seen with the travelign people ask rand "welcome...blah blah blah...do u know the song?"

 

rand: "actually i do!"

 

i think it would be a scene worth seeing. dont think it will happen tho.

[kraefzke]

i would love to see a seen with the travelign people ask rand "welcome...blah blah blah...do u know the song?"

 

rand: "actually i do!"

 

i think it would be a scene worth seeing. dont think it will happen tho.

 

LOL yeah, would love to see that! Unfortunately, I don't suppose there will be time for that in AMoL either.