Wheel of Time Mafia Game Thread

[Red2111]

no its still there Mynd.

 

page 56, post #1105

[DrewRiley]

1) Songs being killed likely means that 1 of the 4 persons who targeted Red was indeed scum. If none of them were, then Songs was sowing a lot of chaos with her ability, so why eliminate it? That's not proof by any means, just a hunch on my part. I was vibing Ed (now mcs) more than player yesterday, but I voted for Player to get a controlled lynch. I think mcs should do a little talking at this point.

 

2) If Verbal was indeed compulsed, that sort of clears Aemon, for the time being. If Aemon is indeed compulsed, that sort of clears Mynd. So if we trust Verbal, then we're trusting Aemon and Mynd as well, which gives us a pretty good cohort. Likewise, if we don't trust Verbal, we probably should not trust Aemon or Mynd. I don't know which way to swing with this. Verbal, what were the stipulations exactly of your compulsion? Simply to vote Aemon, or to try to convince others, or to post so many times, or what?

 

3) We're also playing with fire to believe Aust was silenced the whole night. I wonder if he would have been so quiet if the lynch had started mounting for him? And not that I'm asking for a full revelation, but we got an idea of why the other four people targeted Aemon, so, Aust, why did you target Aemon? Hints, etc?

 

I haven't sensed a cult yet, but it's only been two days, so anything's possible. All 13 Forsaken, with different abilities for each, would make this a really difficult game, even if we got lucky with the first lynch.

[Verbal32]

Major FOS on Mynd right now. If you are town Mynd, then I'm surprised at this post.

[Verbal32]

2) If Verbal was indeed compulsed, that sort of clears Aemon, for the time being. If Aemon is indeed compulsed, that sort of clears Mynd. So if we trust Verbal, then we're trusting Aemon and Mynd as well, which gives us a pretty good cohort. Likewise, if we don't trust Verbal, we probably should not trust Aemon or Mynd. I don't know which way to swing with this. Verbal, what were the stipulations exactly of your compulsion? Simply to vote Aemon, or to try to convince others, or to post so many times, or what?

 

It does not clear Mynd. It doesn't even clear me (or Aemon). My command was to vote Aemon - that was it. No reasons to be given - just to not say I'm being compulsed.

[Verbal32]

I haven't sensed a cult yet, but it's only been two days, so anything's possible. All 13 Forsaken, with different abilities for each, would make this a really difficult game, even if we got lucky with the first lynch.

 

Actually, I won't be surprised if all 13 are in this. They won't necessarily be working together as well. There could be a mafia team or two within the ranks, but many will operate on their own.

 

If Be'lal was in the game, then it stands to reason that most, if not all, Chosen are in this game.

[DrewRiley]

2) If Verbal was indeed compulsed, that sort of clears Aemon, for the time being. If Aemon is indeed compulsed, that sort of clears Mynd. So if we trust Verbal, then we're trusting Aemon and Mynd as well, which gives us a pretty good cohort. Likewise, if we don't trust Verbal, we probably should not trust Aemon or Mynd. I don't know which way to swing with this. Verbal, what were the stipulations exactly of your compulsion? Simply to vote Aemon, or to try to convince others, or to post so many times, or what?

 

It does not clear Mynd. It doesn't even clear me (or Aemon). My command was to vote Aemon - that was it. No reasons to be given - just to not say I'm being compulsed.

 

Were you compulsed during the night? It would be very risky of scum to compel you to vote Aemon if he were scum, you know? It would have been a smart move if you were compulsed once the lynch on Player had already gained momentum, but I'm assuming you were compulsed at night, and given that there was some suspicion on Aemon already, I think it's reasonable to assume that you and Aemon are in the same camp.

[DrewRiley]

Major FOS on Mynd right now. If you are town Mynd, then I'm surprised at this post.

 

Because of shooting for Vambram? Why major? Red did the same thing.

[CurtisScafe]

We've lost both faile and perrin :/

 

But yes, I agree that we should think "out of the box" and not only focus on those three. Ofc we should pay attention to them, and if someone can confirm that one of them did something scummy at night, then we should go after him, right?

Curt: if you for some reason know who not to lynch, please share with us.

 

And my thoughts about killing Song: I think she saw at least one scum the first night, because otherwise mafia wouldn't be "afraid" and kill her. If all who she saw were innocent, then they wouldn't bother with killing her, instead letting her continue and conufse us more (it is confusing when we get four names that acted a tad bit scummy during night, and they are towns!), but as if one or more of them were mafias, they would feel threatened as Song could see them the second time and then it would be pretty easy to draw some conclusions.

Or then mafia killed Song just so they'd be sure they are going to kill a special.

Or then mafia killed Song just so someone would think like I did and be more confused and suspect those remaining three people (who could be town).

 

Well the one I was 100% certain was killed so that is moot. The others I'd rather not say unless they are in peril of being lynched

[Quibby]

Posting to state that I'm not silenced, but today (Tuesday, not Day 3) is probably going to be a bit quiet, as I'm working on a project. If I have something constructive to add, I'll add it.

[Verbal32]

Major FOS on Mynd right now. If you are town Mynd, then I'm surprised at this post.

 

Because of shooting for Vambram? Why major? Red did the same thing.

 

No, for trashing any healers/docs we have. By doing that, it can subtley make those people come defend themselves, which in turn can give the mafia targets for figuring them out. Putting criticism on the healers/docs for Song's death is counterproductive to what we're trying to do. Mynd should know that, so I'm FOSing him as a result.

[Aust]

Drew your logic is twisted if you're going to believe that Verbal and Aemon were compelled, but doubt that I was silenced. Despite your protest, it does sound like you are indeed role fishing. Are you truly surprised that Aemon would be targeted after the day one he had?

 

Yesterday was confusing for me to follow - Song's reveal didn't make sense to me because from what I recall she was stating that I had targeted Red, but she had actually asked for who targeted Aemon but was mistakenly given the names of those who targeted Red by accident. If this were true she shouldn't have gotten my name because as I

[DrewRiley]

Major FOS on Mynd right now. If you are town Mynd, then I'm surprised at this post.

 

Because of shooting for Vambram? Why major? Red did the same thing.

 

No, for trashing any healers/docs we have. By doing that, it can subtley make those people come defend themselves, which in turn can give the mafia targets for figuring them out. Putting criticism on the healers/docs for Song's death is counterproductive to what we're trying to do. Mynd should know that, so I'm FOSing him as a result.

 

Got it. Thanks.

[mcs0083]

Drew your logic is twisted if you're going to believe that Verbal and Aemon were compelled, but doubt that I was silenced. Despite your protest, it does sound like you are indeed role fishing. Are you truly surprised that Aemon would be targeted after the day one he had?

 

Yesterday was confusing for me to follow - Song's reveal didn't make sense to me because from what I recall she was stating that I had targeted Red, but she had actually asked for who targeted Aemon but was mistakenly given the names of those who targeted Red by accident. If this were true she shouldn't have gotten my name because as I

 

Weren't able to finish your sentence there sir? lol

[DrewRiley]

Drew your logic is twisted if you're going to believe that Verbal and Aemon were compelled, but doubt that I was silenced. Despite your protest, it does sound like you are indeed role fishing. Are you truly surprised that Aemon would be targeted after the day one he had?

 

You're right, that comes off as role-fishing but I don't mean to. So nevermind to that. But to your other point, I definitely am NOT assuming Verbal and Aemon have been compelled, and I'm not assuming you've been silenced either. I think I made that clear. I was just looking at the conclusions to be drawn if they were in fact compelled, but I said that we can't assume that it's true.

[Myndrunner]

Major FOS on Mynd right now. If you are town Mynd, then I'm surprised at this post.

 

Because of shooting for Vambram? Why major? Red did the same thing.

 

No, for trashing any healers/docs we have. By doing that, it can subtley make those people come defend themselves, which in turn can give the mafia targets for figuring them out. Putting criticism on the healers/docs for Song's death is counterproductive to what we're trying to do. Mynd should know that, so I'm FOSing him as a result.

 

Or, I'm actually disappointed and wish to further highlight the importance of Songs role in this game. The mafia obviously found her role to be troublesome, but I am not 100% that it directly means one of the remaining 4 who visited Red/Aemon/whoever must be mafia. Our healers/protecters/etc need to make smart choices in who they protect and they cannot rely on the rest of us to spell it out for them because we also spell it out for the mafia.

 

Let us also consider that you and Aemon are faking this whole compulsion gambit. Your first choice in compulsion was to vote Aemon, who is now the target of said compulsion. I find Aemon to be a quite interesting choice for today's compulsion victim, not one I would have made. If we are to believe the compulsion claim, then it essentially makes you AND Aemon innocent, thus writing you both off for the rest of the game. Such a gambit is not something I would put past you at all, my Vampire Mafia friend. I think you and Aemon are faking it.

[Myndrunner]

no its still there Mynd.

 

page 56, post #1105

 

 

Ahhh ok, somehow I thought it was before Perrin's untimely demise. Still, its curious and I'd like to hear from the guy before removing my vote.

 

Still not completely buying the compulsion claim. I say we test this theory on Verbal. If he flips innocent, then that proves Aemon's innocence as well (who seems to be the more valuable of the two) and confirms that there is indeed a compulsion power in this game. If Verbal flips scum, we know who to lynch next and it dispels this compulsion gambit once and for all.

[killuliu]

Still not completely buying the compulsion claim. I say we test this theory on Verbal. If he flips innocent, then that proves Aemon's innocence as well (who seems to be the more valuable of the two) and confirms that there is indeed a compulsion power in this game. If Verbal flips scum, we know who to lynch next and it dispels this compulsion gambit once and for all.

 

I actually think that would be pretty good idea. After all, I think that compulsion sounds a bit fishy, a way to make one look innocent though one would be mafia. Or then again, it could be true, but it's not fun at all ^^

[Myndrunner]

Actually, lets consider these facts:

 

Verbal didn't obey his alleged post restriction immediately. It was only after he was called out for a brief post to vote Aemon did he begin to show signs of compulsion, well into Day 2. It has been my experience with Verbal that if he was compulsed in such a way, his initial posting would be so elaborate that he would make sure we were aware of his PR. His later posts followed that concept, but not after he was called out for it by Red.

 

The argument was presented that Verbal failed to read his messages until well into Day 2; however, who presented that argument to Verbal's defense? That's right, Aemon did! That must have been when the two decided to come up with said gambit, which is quite brilliant actually.

 

Lynching Verbal will not prove anything other than his own alignment; however, we can deduce the following....

 

Verbal flips innocent:

 

1) There is indeed compulsion in this game and we can take future posts as such.

 

2) Aemon is likely innocent and currently under compulsion.

 

3) One can then argue that I am likely innocent because I am Aemon's target.

 

 

Verbal flips scum:

 

1) The compulsion gambit is bullshanks!

 

2) Aemon is likely in league with Verbal and should be our next lynch/vig kill.

 

 

Does this make sense? Another way to look at it is that if we lynch Aemon, then that proves my innocence either way. If he flips innocent, then Verbal is eliminated as a possible scum as well. Thoughts? Please check my logic on this.

[Red2111]

okay, heres a few things.

 

1st - i'm more inclined to think the scum NKd Song because they figured that would cement 1 of the people she posted as scum. this makes me less inclined to follow that path right now, and just observe them for the rest of the game

 

so these guys are on my watch list: Kwom, Aust, & MCS/Ed

 

 

2nd - i'm not liking how Drew & Mynd are trying hard to link people together. the whole "if ones telling the truth, the other must be" or "if one flips scum, then the other must be" is a bad way to go. we don't know when or if the scum will target their own with the silence & compulsion, so thinking like this will allow the scum to lead us around and clear some of their team mates.

 

 

3rd - i would clear or look more suspiciously at the names those who are compulsed are forced to vote for. just like with point #2, the scum can use this to lead us around and lynch innocents or clear scum.

 

 

4th - i agree with Verb's FOS on Mynd for the Healer stuff.

 

 

5th - i think we can all assume that compulsion is in the game; i mean how many of the forsaken use it on a daily basis? so it's not a far stretch to assume its in the game, and lynching a player on that reason alone (to test if the claim is true) is a bad idea. if you guys have other things i might have missed aside from wanting to prove theres compulsion then i'd be more open to the idea

 

 

 

 

2) If Verbal was indeed compulsed, that sort of clears Aemon, for the time being. If Aemon is indeed compulsed, that sort of clears Mynd. So if we trust Verbal, then we're trusting Aemon and Mynd as well, which gives us a pretty good cohort. Likewise, if we don't trust Verbal, we probably should not trust Aemon or Mynd. I don't know which way to swing with this. Verbal, what were the stipulations exactly of your compulsion? Simply to vote Aemon, or to try to convince others, or to post so many times, or what?

 

It does not clear Mynd. It doesn't even clear me (or Aemon). My command was to vote Aemon - that was it. No reasons to be given - just to not say I'm being compulsed.

 

not only what verb says, but i fail to see ow this would clear Mynd.

 

 

 

 

right now i'm good with a vote on Blackhoof, Mynd, Drew or BG; in that order.

[killuliu]

Does this make sense? Another way to look at it is that if we lynch Aemon, then that proves my innocence either way. If he flips innocent, then Verbal is eliminated as a possible scum as well. Thoughts? Please check my logic on this.

 

Has Verbal claimed any powers? I can't recall anymore. But I think Aemon CAN be too important to lose yet, so I think we shouldn't hang him right away. But if the compulsion thing is fake, then we should consider Aemon's hanging. But it is possible that he is who he claims to be, and thus a tad bit too important to hang "just to find out"

[Myndrunner]

There is a huge flaw in the whole "Mynd must be scum for yelling at the protectors" theory. Anybody who has been paying attention should already know who at least two protectors are, and I would argue that there are more in the game. We lost a major advantage when we lost Songs. She was a proven innocent who could tell us who targeted who in a game where likely all of us have some kind of ability. Such information is huge in narrowing down our list of possible lynches.

 

My disappointment is legit. We should not have lost Songs.

 

Now, I will say that my innocence should not be assumed by anything. As we all know, in the game of mafia, no one is innocent until proven otherwise; however, the most effective lynches are those when we go with 1) the most likely scum and 2) the one who would grant us the most information post lynch.

 

A lynch on Aemon might actually make more sense. If he flips innocent, then it not only suggests I am as well, but also Verbal too. Would you trade the life of one innocent player to confirm two others? I would. If he flips scum, then we know who to lynch next. (Spoiler Alert: Verbal)

[Naeann]

I don't think either of their deaths would prove your innocence one way or another. A smart scum would choose themselves to try to do exactly what you are trying to do. Namely.. clear themselves.

 

When I was a bomb in a SG game a few years back I had to pick one person to target each night and their name was then highlighted on the op. To avoid people looking my way I had my own name highlighted.

 

FOS Mynd.

[Red2111]

Mynd, i have to say, i'm itchign to vote you right now. this entire post is very leading and very scummy; and your attempting to clear yourself through a NA by scum; which is never good. my responses are in blue

 

Actually, lets consider these facts:

 

Verbal didn't obey his alleged post restriction immediately. It was only after he was called out for a brief post to vote Aemon did he begin to show signs of compulsion, well into Day 2. It has been my experience with Verbal that if he was compulsed in such a way, his initial posting would be so elaborate that he would make sure we were aware of his PR. His later posts followed that concept, but not after he was called out for it by Red.

 

it depends on how Womby worded the NA. since i don't have the power of compulsion, nor have i been placed under compulsion, i can only speculate. it could be he has to be told who to vote for and until then he can vote however he wants. and as we dont know when they're told they must vote (if it's any time during the Day or at Day Break) we can't know he didn't obey it immediately.

 

the fact that you claim Verb didn't obey it immediatley raises my eyebrows to the fact that you might have inside info on this role Mynd. and for Verb, his intial vote for Aemon was elborae enough to alert people right off that something is wrong, becuase Verb always gives a reason why he's voting someone. i'm not defending Verb, just pointing out the flaws in your "facts"

 

The argument was presented that Verbal failed to read his messages until well into Day 2; however, who presented that argument to Verbal's defense? That's right, Aemon did! That must have been when the two decided to come up with said gambit, which is quite brilliant actually.

 

Lynching Verbal will not prove anything other than his own alignment; however, we can deduce the following....

 

Verbal flips innocent:

 

1) There is indeed compulsion in this game and we can take future posts as such.

 

2) Aemon is likely innocent and currently under compulsion.

 

3) One can then argue that I am likely innocent because I am Aemon's target.

 

 

Verbal flips scum:

 

1) The compulsion gambit is bullshanks!

 

2) Aemon is likely in league with Verbal and should be our next lynch/vig kill.

 

 

First off, the underlined caught my attention. its good to assume there might be a vig in the game, especially one this size; but still i find it odd that you woudl mention it out of the blue.

 

2nd - Verb's alignment doesn't clear or implicate Aemon; or vice versus. Scum can use this role to attempt to clear their own people (either by compulsing their teammates directly or forcing compulsed people to vote for scum) thsi is a dangerous path your attempting to lead us down Mynd and MAJOR FOS @ you for it.

 

 

Does this make sense? Another way to look at it is that if we lynch Aemon, then that proves my innocence either way. If he flips innocent, then Verbal is eliminated as a possible scum as well. Thoughts? Please check my logic on this.

 

Mynd you're smarter than this, which is why i'm more and more wanting to lynch you. it doesn't clear you and you know most of us know the WIFOM surrounding this situaiton. the fact that your trying to twist events to clear yourself smells alot liek scum trying to take advantage of the situation and get the town to lynch two of their own

 

[Red2111]

and with post #1146

 

VOTE: MYND

 

 

you're sounding to much liek your trying to lead the town imo and i'm not liking it; because of the decision your trying to lead them to make.

[DrewRiley]

Red,