Demandred

[Finnssss22]

 

It's about time.

 

 

Right back at ya

[Mats Spare Hat]

Man I always enjoy that Talmanes & Egwene scene!

[yoniy0]

Man I always enjoy that Talmanes & Egwene scene!

I do, too.

 

May I suggest that - if Roedran is truly Demandred - Talmanes might be mistaken in believing he managed to escape before Roedran turned on him. It could be that Demandred's planning some sort of a trap for Mat (after all, we know Graendal had her eye on Perrin, and it's safe to assume that at least some of the Forsaken are focusing on Mat instead). He may well have overestimated Mat's ability to call the Band to him (as it turned out, Mat was able to retrieve them, but through the workings of ta'veren, not any particular plan on his part).

[herid]

after all, we know Graendal had her eye on Perrin, and it's safe to assume that at least some of the Forsaken are focusing on Mat instead).

that's a good point. I've wondered about that too. But my money was on Moridin rather than Demandred. At least I think that he is a more likely candidate for the person controlling the gholam now (after the death of Sammael).

This is because of a sequence in PoD, Ch2. Moridin learns of the girls' plans to use the bowl of the winds. He is very upset by it and decides to do something about it. In the very next scene gholam thinks that the one who commands it now wants Mat and the girls dead. I would think that points to Moridin.

 

The one who commanded it wanted the man who had wounded it dead perhaps as much as he did the women, but the women were an easier target.

-PoD, Ch2

Moridin also seems to be very aware of Mat's and Perrin's importance, much more so than the other Forsaken. When he orders them to kill Mat and Perrin (KoD, CH 3) some of them (like Semirhage) have no idea about their importance. Semirhage is clearly upset about this as she had Mat under her nose for quite some time.

 

"If you want to kill someone," he went on. "kill these two!" Suddenly the semblances of two young men in rough country clothes stood in the center of the circle, turning so that everyone could get a good look at their faces. One was tall and wide, with yellow eyes, of all things, while the other was not quite slender and wore a cheeky grin. Creations of Telaran'rhiod they moved stiffly and their expressions never altered. "Perrin Aybara and Mat Cauthon are ta'veren, easily found. Find them, and kill them."

 

Graendal laughed, a mirthless sound. "Finding ta'veren was never as simple as you made out, and now it's harder than ever. The whole Pattern is in flux, full of shifts and spikes."

 

"Perrin Aybara and Mat Cauthon," Semirhage murmured, inspecting the two shapes. "So that is what they look like. Who knows, Moridin. If you had shared this with us before now they might already have been dead."

-KoD, Ch3

 

This does not prove that Demandred didn't know about Mat but it is somewhat suggestive since he is allied with Semirhage.

 

of course, Moridin is a busy guy and may have delegated authority on the issue since then the way he did with Graendal. and it's also possible that both Moridin and Demandred have some separate schemes concerning Mat.

[herid]

after all, we know Graendal had her eye on Perrin, and it's safe to assume that at least some of the Forsaken are focusing on Mat instead).

that's a good point. I've wondered about that too. But my money was on Moridin rather than Demandred. At least I think that he is a more likely candidate for the person controlling the gholam now (after the death of Sammael).

This is because of a sequence in PoD, Ch2. Moridin learns of the girls' plans to use the bowl of the winds. He is very upset by it and decides to do something about it. In the very next scene gholam thinks that the one who commands it now wants Mat and the girls dead. I would think that points to Moridin.

 

The one who commanded it wanted the man who had wounded it dead perhaps as much as he did the women, but the women were an easier target.

-PoD, Ch2

 

 

oops, I just reread that chapter and it's clear that Sammael is still alive then and is still controlling the gholam. so this scene proves nothing about who controls the gholam after Sammael's death.

[Terez]

anyone have thought about the legion of dragons? I think likely because demandred is a great general (either Moridin,demandred or both control the BT would hand out the command job to demandred).And it is Taim who has suggested that Rand to have a personnal army.

It's in the article under the 'multitasker' section.

 

A side point , I think Beshere may be under conplusion.(Even have the possibily of being the Broken Wolf)

He can't be the Broken Wolf. As for Compulsion...maybe. I can't think of any evidence for it beyond Min's viewing.

 

 

It's about time.

Right back at ya

I thought you were done. Because I will continue to argue with you about it if you wish.

[Finnssss22]

I thought you were done. Because I will continue to argue with you about it if you wish.

 

Oh I know you would but you've gone from...

Also, it's worth mentioning that Demandred might have written the book himself, or maybe he recognized the influence of things he had written in the book. He wrote several books in the Age of Legends on various topics, and his books were far more popular than Ishamael's books because they were less esoteric, so it may be that the book managed to survive well past the Breaking, if not to the present (in the form of Comadrin's book). This would fit with the ancient and even not-so-distant-past practice of attributing great writings to popular figures, whether they were written by said figures or not.

 

TO....

I didn't say he wrote it now. I don't think it needs to be established why he would write a book on war, and I don't particularly feel the need to provide evidence for something that I never claimed had evidence for it in the first place.

 

...and I am getting the sense that you're just as confused as I am to where you stand at this point and my mind keeps going back to Mat's story from tGS about dicing with a woman who had no pips on her dice

[dwn]

I don't subscribe to the Demandred-in-Murandy theory, but it does make sense for a military genius to take an interest in a book on tactics. Particularly when he's accustomed to fighting in a high-tech society and needs to plan for warfare in a medieval one.

 

It's also not a huge stretch to think that a famous tactics book would incorporate, modified or not, attributed or not, work by historical generals like Demandred, LTT or Sammael. These are the guys who actually reinvented warfare, after all.

 

-- dwn

[Terez]

I thought you were done. Because I will continue to argue with you about it if you wish.

 

Oh I know you would but you've gone from...

...

 

...and I am getting the sense that you're just as confused as I am to where you stand at this point and my mind keeps going back to Mat's story from tGS about dicing with a woman who had no pips on her dice

I'm not confused at all. There was no contradiction in the quotes you gave. You're the one who is confused, obviously, since you said you were done arguing several posts ago.

[yoniy0]

@herid either way, by the time Talmanes escaped Murandy that FS meeting has already taken place, so Demandred would certainly be aware of Moridin's wishes. If Semirhage's blunder reflected badly on him, he might be feeling cooperative. It's just a thought, but I think it's viable.

 

my mind keeps going back to Mat's story from tGS about dicing with a woman who had no pips on her dice

You're the one who is confused, obviously, since you said you were done arguing several posts ago.

I've asked you already to stop arguing about this (prticularly since you both agree on the issue at hand - it's the way you treated each other that you're arguing about, and indeed, both of you went too far a couple of posts ago). I'm asking again.

[Terez]

I've asked you already to stop arguing about this (prticularly since you both agree on the issue at hand - it's the way you treated each other that you're arguing about, and indeed, both of you went too far a couple of posts ago). I'm asking again.

I didn't read any of those posts before. Now that I have, I have to point out again that my issue was with the way the idea was addressed. I still have an issue with it, and none of the points in your post were valid.

[yoniy0]

and none of the points in your post were valid.

Now I'm confused . Are you saying you don't agree with my speculating that Roedrandred let Talmanes escape as part of some trap aimed at Mat?

 

Regarding the other thing, I sympathize with your annoyance (that's not saying I necessarily agree), but I'm asking that you let it be. It's certainly not an excuse for insulting other posters. This is your thread; surely you want it to be about Demandred rather than the alleged rudeness of someone on DM?

[Terez]

I sympathize with your annoyance (that's not saying I necessarily agree), but I'm asking that you let it be. It's certainly not an excuse for insulting other posters. This is your thread; surely you want it to be about Demandred rather than the alleged rudeness of someone on DM?

Nah, variety is good for the soul. And I didn't insult anyone. I find it odd that you edited my post for saying that responses were 'illogical' and 'ridiculous' (which was true, of course), when you haven't shown any concern for direct and unprovoked personal attacks against me in the last few days. In the past, I've observed that this is mainly because I'm not the one whining to the moderators, but without any information to the contrary, I'll assume you acted on your own. So what's the deal?

 

(Note: normally I don't mind discussing this sort of thing in private, but if you're going to rebuke me publicly, then we should discuss it publicly.)

[yoniy0]

normally I don't mind discussing this sort of thing in private

Good idea. Let's do that (I'll PM you shortly). Everyone, carry on (and someone please say something about my trap addendum).

[Terez]

I figure the trap is probably mostly aimed at the Band, not to say that Demandred has no interest in Mat in particular.

[Axon]

Meh, just another Forsaken who's gonna get jacked in two seconds. These guys couldn't even handle Rand when he was barely aware of his ability to channel. The chance of Dem giving Rand anything more than a pretense of a challenge is slim.

 

Anyway, Demandred is either some sort of competing Nae'blis who has been consolidating the shadow's power somewhere, or he's Taim. I've always liked the Taim theory, but I remain convinced RJ changed it because so many of us guessed it so easily.

[Terez]

Demandred is either some sort of competing Nae'blis who has been consolidating the shadow's power somewhere...

This doesn't seem likely, seeing as how Moridin knows exactly what he's up to (whatever it is) and doesn't seem to have a problem with it.

[Axon]

Hm, true...but we haven't seen Dem's perspective on that yet. Graendal's little taste of the true power, which I thought was now exclusive to Mor, has got me wondering about the power structure among the forsaken. From the little we do know about how the DO runs things, however, it seems unlikely that Dem is a background Nae'blis.

[Eht Slat Meit]

Hm, true...but we haven't seen Dem's perspective on that yet. Graendal's little taste of the true power, which I thought was now exclusive to Mor, has got me wondering about the power structure among the forsaken. From the little we do know about how the DO runs things, however, it seems unlikely that Dem is a background Nae'blis.

 

Additionally, from what we've learned about Demandred's jealousy of Rand, I'm not convinced being Nae'bliss was ever his greatest priority and I'd also speculate that as long as he's given the free hand he seems to have had so far, he probably got over it pretty quick when Moridin took the spot.

[Terez]

Brandon has said that Demandred contemplates killing Moridin every now and then (which we have seen), but that his main goal is Rand. He's also said that the Shadow considers Demandred to be the main player for AMOL.

[MasterAblar]

Brandon has said that Demandred contemplates killing Moridin every now and then (which we have seen), but that his main goal is Rand. He's also said that the Shadow considers Demandred to be the main player for AMOL.

 

And that's all that matters. :)

[Mats Spare Hat]

Probably oversimplifying, but has anybody come up with a list of characters introduced since the point, at which the authors have noted, that Demandred's alter-ego hadn't appeared onscreen?

 

It was said his alter-ego hadn't made an appearance as of what was it, well whatever the book was - between a list of those characters appearing since the given time, and cross-referencing those which appear in TGS, minus those who appear in ToM...Maybe get it down to a nice list of being able to cross off names to arrive at a relatively select amount of suspects with not as much crazy speculation involved?

 

I mean it doesn't sound that crazy, does it?

 

 

 

 

Demandred's probably posing as a billy goat, anyway...

[MasterAblar]

Probably oversimplifying, but has anybody come up with a list of characters introduced since the point, at which the authors have noted, that Demandred's alter-ego hadn't appeared onscreen?

 

It was said his alter-ego hadn't made an appearance as of what was it, well whatever the book was - between a list of those characters appearing since the given time, and cross-referencing those which appear in TGS, minus those who appear in ToM...Maybe get it down to a nice list of being able to cross off names to arrive at a relatively select amount of suspects with not as much crazy speculation involved?

 

I mean it doesn't sound that crazy, does it?

 

 

 

 

Demandred's probably posing as a billy goat, anyway...

 

He might not have made an appearance in tGS either, we don't know.

[capuga]

Meh, just another Forsaken who's gonna get jacked in two seconds. These guys couldn't even handle Rand when he was barely aware of his ability to channel. The chance of Dem giving Rand anything more than a pretense of a challenge is slim.

 

Anyway, Demandred is either some sort of competing Nae'blis who has been consolidating the shadow's power somewhere, or he's Taim. I've always liked the Taim theory, but I remain convinced RJ changed it because so many of us guessed it so easily.

 

Really, really unlikely.

 

First, so many of us is an exagerration (sp?) - as you have seen on this and other threads, there is very little consensus on who Demandred is even amongst the hardcore fans on the fan sites. And you have to remember that the people speculating about these types of things on fan sites are a very small fraction of the people that read the series. Its extremely unlikely that he would change a fairly major plot detail just because a small fraction of people guessed correctly.

 

Second, there have been many other mysteries that good sized chunks of the people on these sites have guessed correctly and you don't see RJ changing all those. Graendal killed Asmo, Danielle was Mesaana, Mat would lose an eye, etc. All these things had as much support as Taimendred and were close to as important, but RJ didn't go and change his story and plot just to fool people.

 

I will continue to take RJ at his word that Taim is not Demandred and that he was surprised so many people believed that. I prefer not to think of him as a liar.

[Axon]

Meh, just another Forsaken who's gonna get jacked in two seconds. These guys couldn't even handle Rand when he was barely aware of his ability to channel. The chance of Dem giving Rand anything more than a pretense of a challenge is slim.

 

Anyway, Demandred is either some sort of competing Nae'blis who has been consolidating the shadow's power somewhere, or he's Taim. I've always liked the Taim theory, but I remain convinced RJ changed it because so many of us guessed it so easily.

 

Really, really unlikely.

 

First, so many of us is an exagerration (sp?) - as you have seen on this and other threads, there is very little consensus on who Demandred is even amongst the hardcore fans on the fan sites. And you have to remember that the people speculating about these types of things on fan sites are a very small fraction of the people that read the series. Its extremely unlikely that he would change a fairly major plot detail just because a small fraction of people guessed correctly.

 

Second, there have been many other mysteries that good sized chunks of the people on these sites have guessed correctly and you don't see RJ changing all those. Graendal killed Asmo, Danielle was Mesaana, Mat would lose an eye, etc. All these things had as much support as Taimendred and were close to as important, but RJ didn't go and change his story and plot just to fool people.

 

I will continue to take RJ at his word that Taim is not Demandred and that he was surprised so many people believed that. I prefer not to think of him as a liar.

 

Well, these days, the internet is a powerful force. While posters on this forum might be a vocal minority, I've spoken to quite a few people who also suspect the same thing but won't come near a WoT forum. No one can "prove" this either way, so, irrelevant. As to RJ, he certainly wouldn't be the first author to try and throw people off the scent of an unrevealed plot twist. :) Hoepfully when all the cards are finally revealed, my opinion will be justified or completely kiboshed.