Demandred

[gambril]

Dom still doesn't address the Brandon quotes, maybe because he's not really paying attention to anything Brandon says lately (not sure). I do need to add something about Moridin's guards and such - I mentioned it in the Black Tower article but it could stand a mention in this one too.

 

I don't pay much attention to what Brandon says (he's not going to say anything that gives away what's going to happen in AMOL so why bother imo...plus I'm lazy - I'll pay attention to what he says after AMOL when he can be forthcoming). I did click that link on your initial post and didn't see anything that would contradict it from a cursory glance. What Brandon quotes are you talking about?

[Terez]

Find it pretty hard to make the connection between greatest mystery of the series with the subject of a few pieces of throw-away dialog across the series :)

 

Here is the problem I see with the few Terez theories I've read (particularly the one on Theoryland's ToM board)

Aside from your ad hominem attacks with no evidence, what are you even talking about? Roedran is not my theory. I argued against it for years, but the recent Brandon quotes make it look pretty solid.

[Terez]

Dom still doesn't address the Brandon quotes, maybe because he's not really paying attention to anything Brandon says lately (not sure). I do need to add something about Moridin's guards and such - I mentioned it in the Black Tower article but it could stand a mention in this one too.

 

I don't pay much attention to what Brandon says (he's not going to say anything that gives away what's going to happen in AMOL so why bother imo...plus I'm lazy - I'll pay attention to what he says after AMOL when he can be forthcoming). I did click that link on your initial post and didn't see anything that would contradict it from a cursory glance. What Brandon quotes are you talking about?

If you didn't even read it, then why are you arguing against it?

[gambril]

Dom still doesn't address the Brandon quotes, maybe because he's not really paying attention to anything Brandon says lately (not sure). I do need to add something about Moridin's guards and such - I mentioned it in the Black Tower article but it could stand a mention in this one too.

 

I don't pay much attention to what Brandon says (he's not going to say anything that gives away what's going to happen in AMOL so why bother imo...plus I'm lazy - I'll pay attention to what he says after AMOL when he can be forthcoming). I did click that link on your initial post and didn't see anything that would contradict it from a cursory glance. What Brandon quotes are you talking about?

If you didn't even read it, then why are you arguing against it?

 

I did read it giving it a cursory glance (the link on the initial post). Cursory meaning I just scrolled through where I looked for what Brandon said and nothing else though if this is what you're talking about (reading the whole bloody thing). *Shrugs sheepishly in confusion* I have no problem being called a fool (I imagine you'll call me one for being confused - lazy and pretty drunk atm would be more appropriate currently though to be honest). All I'm asking is for a nod in the right direction to understand what you're talking about.

[herid]

It also does nothing to address the Brandon quotes I gave which suggest that Taim does have an alter ego.

sorry, I'm getting lost here. which quotes are those? I don't see any relevant ones in this thread. I'm very interested to see them.

[Terez]

I did read it giving it a cursory glance (the link on the initial post). Cursory meaning I just scrolled through where I looked for what Brandon said and nothing else though if this is what you're talking about (reading the whole bloody thing). *Shrugs sheepishly in confusion* I have no problem being called a fool (I imagine you'll call me one for being confused - lazy and pretty drunk atm would be more appropriate currently though to be honest). All I'm asking is for a nod in the right direction to understand what you're talking about.

Ahhh, drunkposting. Cheers.

 

It also does nothing to address the Brandon quotes I gave which suggest that Taim does have an alter ego.

sorry, I'm getting lost here. which quotes are those? I don't see any relevant ones in this thread. I'm very interested to see them.

It's not in the thread, but in the article (in the section entitled 'Does he even have an alter ego?', which I will quote for your convenience:

 

Most fandom noobs seemed to take it for granted that Demandred was posing as someone, somewhere - which, of course, does not rule out proxies - and Brandon also seems to have been operating from that assumption when he commented here:

Mick Wick on Twitter - July 28 2010 1:38 am

 

Is it possible for us readers to figure out Demandred's identity with the information we already have?

Brandon - 4:32 pm

 

And now, Theoryland is holding its breath. I think I might have actually answered on tour. I'm not sure what RJ said on the matter, but...

 

4:37 pm

 

I will say only this: There ARE clues. I think it could be figured out. Maybe. It's much, much harder than Asmodean's killer.

 

4:40 pm?

 

Obviously, I must be tight-lipped. Can it be figured out: Yes. Will it make you smack your heads & say "I should have seen it!" Probably not.

 

From the comments on Facebook:

 

Richelle Perreault: Brandon, you are such a tease........ but I will "RAFO". but still it's a tease.

 

Brandon: Sorry. Inherited that from RJ. Still, it wasn't totally a RAFO. It was a tad more than that. I do see from Tamyrlin's post that RJ confirmed that you could figure it out.

 

Terez: ‎@Brandon: sort of. There was room in RJ's comment for the interpretation that we should be able to figure out that Demandred is simply Demandred. You have made it more clear. Not that we are complaining.

 

Brandon: Ah, I see. Well, let me add the official clarification onto what I've said: Basically, I'm not merely talking about "Alter Ego" here when I reply to the "Figure out Demandred's Identity" question. I look at that question as a larger "What he's been up to, what he's been influencing, where he's hiding" that sort of thing.

 

Why make this distinction? Well, it's because of things that (likely) others have figured out already. Demandred hasn't been in-guise in the books at least up to Knife of Dreams. So energies focused on "exactly who is he" would be pointless, to an extent. If he is indeed imitating someone, you haven't seen that someone through most of the series. At least not in person. You may have seen them now, but if so, they haven't been on-screen for long.

 

So, what I'm saying is basically this: There are clues as to what Demandred is up to. You could figure that out. I think it would be hard, but not so hard that someone won't guess it. (And, knowing WoT fandom, someone probably has.)

 

Brandon usually tries to avoid revealing too much, but often he finds that he accidentally reveals something simply because he assumed it was common knowledge and did not realize there was any debate on the subject. I'm not so sure he managed to make a save here, though he tried. He just took it for granted that everyone 'knew' Demandred had an alter ego. Even in his 'official clarification', he said things like 'not merely talking about "Alter Ego"' and 'pointless, to an extent', etc. This is the RJ quote he was referring to:

MarCon, Columbus, OH, May 2001 - Sorilea reporting

 

Ruhira Sedai: We know who almost all the Forsaken are, except maybe Mesaana and Demandred. Should we be able to work out who they are?

RJ: Ummm.. Yeah.

 

And Brandon says Demandred's identity is 'the biggest secret in the series':

 

The Gathering Storm Book tour, Idaho Falls 19 December 2009 - wolfbro22 reporting

Went to the signing in Idaho Falls today and asked Brandon if we had seen Demandred's alter ego on screen, and he gave me a RAFO card and said that Demandred's identity is the biggest secret in the series and will pay off in the end.

So, it's probably safe to assume that Demandred does indeed have an alter ego, with very little room for doubt.

Also, there's another relevant quote I used in the Roedran section:

 

Andrew Leston on Twitter - 7 August 6:14 pm

I believe I've figured out who Demandred is based solely on Lord of Chaos. Is this possible?

Brandon - 3:44 pm

It MIGHT be possible. I honestly can't remember where all of the clues are.

If we can figure out WHO Demandred is, then he has an alter ego, and it's someone we've at least heard of before or we wouldn't be able to figure out WHO it is. Technically, RJ said the same thing back in the day, but the way it was reported made it seem sarcastic.

 

If you follow the link to the comments on Facebook, you'll see me and Luckers both celebrating that Brandon had backtracked and allowed for the possibility that he wasn't posing as anyone. Hell, for your convenience I shall provide it:

 

 

 

But with a little more thought, I realized it just didn't fly. I'm not sure how Luckers feels about it any more; I'll have to ask him (unless he's lurking about, in which case he should speak up).

 

 

[OptimusPrime]

Too loony. Demandred is the only Forsaken who has actually been seen talking to the Dark One, though Moridin apparently speaks with his voice sometimes and talks to him in his head.

 

An assumption on Graendals part, and assumptions have a strong habit of being wrong. I find it more believable that it was Lews Therins voice.

[herid]

 

 

It also does nothing to address the Brandon quotes I gave which suggest that Taim does have an alter ego.

sorry, I'm getting lost here. which quotes are those? I don't see any relevant ones in this thread. I'm very interested to see them.

It's not in the thread, but in the article (in the section entitled 'Does he even have an alter ego?', which I will quote for your convenience:

 

That's about Demandred. That quote above mentions Taim's alter ego. that's why I asked. or was this just a typo and you meant Demandred?

[Beidomon]

I think the "It's Roedran" crowd are following some rather vague and possibly false clues to reach a very illogical conclusion. Why do I know it's not Roedran? Because Demandred needs an army. Are you seriously telling me that Demandred is going to show up at the Last Battle with 15,000 Murandians? That's just dumb (will all due respect).

 

Demandred's claim that "my rule is secure" - and Aran'gar's conclusion from this that Demandred holds a throne, is meaningless. "My rule" could just as easily mean "my control" and there is no reason it has to be an actual throne. Besides, it's been said at multiple points in the book that Demandred uses proxies. He ain't sitting on a throne somewhere - he's working in the shadows behind a puppet. Similarly, Sammael's suspicion that Demandred is in Murandy is just that - a suspicion, and how bright was Sammael?

 

Mark my words, Demandred is going to show up in AMOL with a huge force (and I'd bet he's involved in Caemlyn). This means he's most likely:

(1) some obscure asha'man working Taim's puppet strings and controlling the Black Tower (now that's an army)

(2) controlling some hideous force we haven't even seen yet hiding up inthe Blight (red-veiled Aiel anyone?)

(3) contolling Shara and bringing them to fght for the DO.

[MasterAblar]

I think the "It's Roedran" crowd are following some rather vague and possibly false clues to reach a very illogical conclusion. Why do I know it's not Roedran? Because Demandred needs an army. Are you seriously telling me that Demandred is going to show up at the Last Battle with 15,000 Murandians? That's just dumb (will all due respect).

 

Demandred's claim that "my rule is secure" - and Aran'gar's conclusion from this that Demandred holds a throne, is meaningless. "My rule" could just as easily mean "my control" and there is no reason it has to be an actual throne. Besides, it's been said at multiple points in the book that Demandred uses proxies. He ain't sitting on a throne somewhere - he's working in the shadows behind a puppet. Similarly, Sammael's suspicion that Demandred is in Murandy is just that - a suspicion, and how bright was Sammael?

 

Mark my words, Demandred is going to show up in AMOL with a huge force (and I'd bet he's involved in Caemlyn). This means he's most likely:

(1) some obscure asha'man working Taim's puppet strings and controlling the Black Tower (now that's an army)

(2) controlling some hideous force we haven't even seen yet hiding up inthe Blight (red-veiled Aiel anyone?)

(3) contolling Shara and bringing them to fght for the DO.

 

Pretty damn bright in Greandal's opinion. That said I don't believe Demandred is Roedran. I am not convinced he is controlling him either. The shadow divides, it does not unite. The vast majority of murandians follow the light so uniting them seems out of the question to me. Neither does it seem particularly useful. How do you convince murandians to fight the dragon, amrylin and all the other nations when it's pretty common knowledge that TG is upon them. And uniting Murandy could have been a lot easier than using the Band. Just compel the various lords and ladies, or at least the most powerful.

[yoniy0]

I never put much stock in the Roedran theory, but I must admit is seems rather likely now, by simple process of elimination (assuming Demandred has an alter ego at all, which I agree is more likely than not). Also, I loved the bit about the pipe; I can't believe I've missed that - I can think of no reason to mention the pipe (twice!) if it isn't somehow significant (unless it's a red herring), and carrying a Tracker is probably the only way it could be.

 

PS

I emailed you about a link on one of Matt's twits that's gone the way of Jane's Addiction (to quote Jason Segel). One more thing I noticed afterwards is that you confused Ethenielle's and Evanellein's names in one place (search for Ethenielle, you'll find it easily enough).

[Ananta]

I don't see how leading a small nation mostly consisting of non-darkfriends could be of any use in Last Battle, no matter how unexpected that would be. There's no way he'd manage to make the people fight for DO, even if it's their king saying they should. There's a lot of good points in the theory, and the pipe thing is rather intriguing, but I don't think he's pretending to be Roedran. He might be using Roedran as a proxy, though, since I'm sure Demandred has several irons in the fire.

 

I could see Demandred collecting an army from Land of the Madmen. A primitive culture could be rather easy to turn on your side, say, by pretending you're a God. And since there are both, female and male channelers, they make a wonderful army. They'd follow you anywhere because they think you're a God, thus fulfilling the "My rule is secure", and they also wouldn't care, or be aware of the fact, that they are fighting for the evil side, since they are simply following their God.

 

Also, the red-veiled aiel being from Land of the Madmen would make sense from Demandred's point of view. He wants to beat LTT at everything, to prove he is better than him. And since Aiel are 'The People of the Dragon', Demandred trying to create 'The People of the Demandred' in the image of the Aiel would make sense.

 

 

 

Anyhow, this is just my take on things. I've only read the books once, and I haven't read most of RJ's / BS's interviews, so if this has been busted then sorry for wasting your time xD

[Terez]

That's about Demandred. That quote above mentions Taim's alter ego. that's why I asked. or was this just a typo and you meant Demandred?

Yup, 'twas a typo.

 

I never put much stock in the Roedran theory, but I must admit is seems rather likely now, by simple process of elimination (assuming Demandred has an alter ego at all, which I agree is more likely than not). Also, I loved the bit about the pipe; I can't believe I've missed that - I can think of no reason to mention the pipe (twice!) if it isn't somehow significant (unless it's a red herring), and carrying a Tracker is probably the only way it could be.

Yeah, I think most people are resistant to Roedran. It's interesting how before TGS, Roedran was a loony noob theory, but after that the the things Brandon has said, most of the oldtimers are starting to grudgingly accept it.

 

I emailed you about a link on one of Matt's twits that's gone the way of Jane's Addiction (to quote Jason Segel). One more thing I noticed afterwards is that you confused Ethenielle's and Evanellein's names in one place (search for Ethenielle, you'll find it easily enough).

LOL, this is funny because I caught myself doing it once, and I wondered how many times I'd done it before. Fixed now, including the link you emailed me about.

[Terez]

I don't see how leading a small nation mostly consisting of non-darkfriends could be of any use in Last Battle, no matter how unexpected that would be.

It's a staging ground, and it's in a place that no one cares about, and therefore no one will interfere with.

 

There's no way he'd manage to make the people fight for DO

The Murandians are more likely to be led against Caemlyn.

 

I could see Demandred collecting an army from Land of the Madmen.

But not Roedran, huh? Well, there's no accounting for some folks' logic...

[Saguin Venart]

I always though Demandred was Guybon, because he just like sprouted up out of the ground to help Elayne.

[MasterAblar]

I always though Demandred was Guybon, because he just like sprouted up out of the ground to help Elayne.

 

Guybon was in ToM. Demandred apparently did not appear in ToM so he can not be Guybon.

[Saguin Venart]

I always though Demandred was Guybon, because he just like sprouted up out of the ground to help Elayne.

 

Guybon was in ToM. Demandred apparently did not appear in ToM so he can not be Guybon.

 

 

Yeah but before I learned that Demandred didn't appear in KoD I thought that it was Guybon.

[Terez]

Some folks were talking about Guybon on Theoryland a couple of days ago, and someone tweeted me about Galgan (I love it when they say, 'I haven't read the article, but have you considered...?'). Both are disqualified by virtue of having been seen outside of TGS.

[Saguin Venart]

Maybe Alsalam? Either that or Roedran grows more and more likely. Could he be disguising himself as a woman?

[Terez]

LOL. Read the article. Alsalam is disqualified.

[Saguin Venart]

I should read the darn thing...

 

Edit my only hang up is, Murandians arent exactly known for their dastardly nature or fighting prowess. They couldn't worth much more than cannon fodder in Tarmon Gai'don.

[MasterAblar]

I don't see how leading a small nation mostly consisting of non-darkfriends could be of any use in Last Battle, no matter how unexpected that would be.

It's a staging ground, and it's in a place that no one cares about, and therefore no one will interfere with.

 

There's no way he'd manage to make the people fight for DO

The Murandians are more likely to be led against Caemlyn.

 

I could see Demandred collecting an army from Land of the Madmen.

But not Roedran, huh? Well, there's no accounting for some folks' logic...

 

If he is having tons of trollocs come into Murandy are the murandians not going to take notice of it? Also the shadow seems to be completely outnumbered in terms of channelers. TG is going to be pretty one sided unless the shadow gets more channelers. I've always believed he was in Shara (among other things he is doing) because it is nearly completely secluded from the rest of the world. It would be a perfect opportunity to corrupt an entire people against the Dragon Reborn. Demandred could even have Rand blamed for any bad things happening because of the approach of TG.

 

There is already an army of trollocs attacking Caemlyn. And if the shadow's armies are moving through the ways there isn't much need of a staging ground in Murandy.

[Saguin Venart]

My biggest quibble with Roedran is why would he need Talmanes? Just go to the nobles a little bit of compulsion. Bada boom bada bing, you have Murandy.

[Ananta]

It's a staging ground, and it's in a place that no one cares about, and therefore no one will interfere with.

Sounds like a lot of work for fairly small "profit".

 

The smartest thing to do would be to just hide in a tavern or something, being a nobody, but still being the puppet master. Roedran still being Roedran, just under Demandred's influence.

The Murandians are more likely to be led against Caemlyn.

A fair point, but still, Demandred has no need to take Roedran's place to make that happen.

 

But not Roedran, huh? Well, there's no accounting for some folks' logic...

I don't quite understand what you mean there.

 

You mean it's weird I could see Demandred collecting an army from Land of Madmen, but not him pretending to be Roedran?

I don't see how those two things are even remotely connected. He could be Batman and still collect an army from Land of the Madmen, it makes no difference who he is.

[MasterAblar]

My biggest quibble with Roedran is why would he need Talmanes? Just go to the nobles a little bit of compulsion. Bada boom bada bing, you have Murandy.

 

Right, using the band just seems to make things more complicated than is necessary. And giving Talmanes that book on war that Mat talked about seems pretty dumb since Demandred should know that its a good book.