Logain

[Terez]

1. why do you think that Rand is the Broken Wolf from the shadow prophecy?

He's the only one who could possibly be the Broken Wolf, on two counts. Read here.

[bronnt]

This thread would be more interesting if people were coming up with amusing answers to the question instead of seriously talking about BT shenanigans.

 

"Logain is busy inventing the perfect margarita."

 

"Logain is taking dance lessons in Tarabon."

 

"Logain has been rehearsing for his Ghealdon Civil War Re-enactment with the 12th Boannda Infantry."

 

"Logain is touring with a group of players-ever since landing the role of Gaidal Cain, he couldn't be bothered to do anything else."

 

"Logain is smoking the Caralain Grass. If you know what I mean."

[yoniy0]

Many of the questions on this thread are addressed here:

 

The Black Tower

Loved 'The Black Tower' (though it saddens me that your predictions of the Battle of Caemlyn no longer seem viable, as you mention towards the end), going to read 'Blood on the Rocks' and 'Dark Prophecies' now. Could you perhaps refer us to an index for these (and hopefully, additional) articles?

[Terez]

I went ahead and put the link in my sig. The FAQ is not done yet - when I get more articles up I'll likely organize the index a little better. For now there are few enough articles that I just listed them.

[herid]

1. why do you think that Rand is the Broken Wolf from the shadow prophecy?

He's the only one who could possibly be the Broken Wolf, on two counts. Read here.

Thanks a lot. Very interesting as usual. Still I'm far from sure that Rand once calling himself a wolf in a metaphorical sense is enough to justify a reference to him as a Broken Wolf in a prophecy. But I admit, given that quote it's a possibility. I didn't know about that quote and could see no way at all to tie Rand to the Wolf part.

[Terez]

The main problem with assuming that anyone else is the Broken Wolf is the prophesied reaction to his death. No one else would cause that reaction. Usually I grant for the possibility of other theories but I don't think that it would be appropriate in this case. Rand is the Broken Wolf, whether it's a stretch to call him a wolf or not. I think the wolf bit was intended to be a red herring - without that, it would have been obvious to everyone that it was Rand. (It's still obvious to me, but I'm not everyone.)

 

Also, re: Aviendha's gateway: I've always thought that was just a plot hole. I enjoy reading plot hole theories - you know, the ones where people try to pretend it's not a plot hole - but usually they're just plot holes.

[yoniy0]

I went ahead and put the link in my sig. The FAQ is not done yet - when I get more articles up I'll likely organize the index a little better. For now there are few enough articles that I just listed them.

Theresa, though (as you know) I never find it hard to get behind your theories, these articles are of special note. Simply splendid. I know you'd probably want to make these part of Theoryland, but I'm sure they'll find a loving home in the WoT FAQ hosted here on DM. Have you considered asking Jennifer about that?

 

BTW I don't see 'The Wayforward Machine' on the index. What did I miss?

[Terez]

I went ahead and put the link in my sig. The FAQ is not done yet - when I get more articles up I'll likely organize the index a little better. For now there are few enough articles that I just listed them.

Theresa, though (as you know) I never find it hard to get behind your theories, these articles are of special note. Simply splendid. I know you'd probably want to make these part of Theoryland, but I'm sure they'll find a loving home in the WoT FAQ hosted here on DM. Have you considered asking Jennifer about that?

hmph, I offered (through Tamyrlin) to work on the FAQ like 18 times when she was working on it in the first place.

 

BTW I don't see 'The Wayforward Machine' on the index. What did I miss?

It's not finished yet! I didn't realize I'd crosslinked it in another article.

[herid]

The main problem with assuming that anyone else is the Broken Wolf is the prophesied reaction to his death. No one else would cause that reaction.

I would certainly quibble with that. For example, Perrin's death would certainly ' bring fear and sorrow' to the hearts of his followers, and 'shall shake their very will itself'.

But I do have to say that your theory is the first one I've seen which gives somewhat plausible explanations to all 3 parts of that prophecy.

Also, re: Aviendha's gateway: I've always thought that was just a plot hole. I enjoy reading plot hole theories - you know, the ones where people try to pretend it's not a plot hole - but usually they're just plot holes.

A plot hole?! I can't buy that. RJ would never plant something like this so late in the series (the trip from Ebu Dar to Kin's farm happens in POD) by mistake. And it's specifically mentioned that Avi uses different weaves from Elayne to make her gateway there. Something interesting is going on here.

[Terez]

The main problem with assuming that anyone else is the Broken Wolf is the prophesied reaction to his death. No one else would cause that reaction.

I would certainly quibble with that. For example, Perrin's death would certainly ' bring fear and sorrow' to the hearts of his followers, and 'shall shake their very will itself'.

No, it wouldn't. People would mourn him, but they wouldn't lose their will to go on. Why would they? Only Rand's death would do that.

[herid]

The main problem with assuming that anyone else is the Broken Wolf is the prophesied reaction to his death. No one else would cause that reaction.

I would certainly quibble with that. For example, Perrin's death would certainly ' bring fear and sorrow' to the hearts of his followers, and 'shall shake their very will itself'.

No, it wouldn't. People would mourn him, but they wouldn't lose their will to go on. Why would they? Only Rand's death would do that.

it says that his death will shake their will itself, it doesn't say that it will break their will. That's a different thing. Perrin's death would certainly shake his followers severely. I definitely don't see this part of the prophecy alone disqualifying anybody other than Rand from being the Broken Wolf.

[KefkaPalazzo]

IMO, he's already toast. Taim has been looking for an excuse to kill him since Logain go to the BT. One of Logain's HANDPICKED supporters, who left the BT with him is back and was turned? He's pushing up daisies for sure.

[bronnt]

The main problem with assuming that anyone else is the Broken Wolf is the prophesied reaction to his death. No one else would cause that reaction. Usually I grant for the possibility of other theories but I don't think that it would be appropriate in this case. Rand is the Broken Wolf, whether it's a stretch to call him a wolf or not. I think the wolf bit was intended to be a red herring - without that, it would have been obvious to everyone that it was Rand. (It's still obvious to me, but I'm not everyone.)

 

Also, re: Aviendha's gateway: I've always thought that was just a plot hole. I enjoy reading plot hole theories - you know, the ones where people try to pretend it's not a plot hole - but usually they're just plot holes.

 

It's not even a plot hole. Aviendha's gateway is exactly explained in the mechanics of the story-when the girls (Nynaeve and Egwene) first show up at the Tower, they learn that one reason wilders aren't looked at kindly is that they've subconsciously discovered ways to weave things in a certain way that can't be unlearned-learning to make the same thing again results in weaving at less-than-full effectiveness. Aviendha stumbled onto how to make a gateway, with her own gesture, but couldn't remember it. Thus, when she learned the "kosher" method for making gateways, she doesn't do it as easily as Elayne or Egwene.

 

There's even a quote-might even be from ANS-where someone mentions that AS can name who taught certain weaves to AS by the gestures they use with them-they'll always use those gestures since that's how they learned the weave. There's also a conversation between Sorilea and Cadsuane about the Aes Sedai taken on as apprentices, and how they won't be able to learn how to use Wise One style weaves as effectively.

 

There's too many people who have jumped on this Aviendha Gateway Time Travel theory, and I NEVER picked up any hints of it from the books. It's pretty exclusive to the discussion forums.

[herid]

The main problem with assuming that anyone else is the Broken Wolf is the prophesied reaction to his death. No one else would cause that reaction. Usually I grant for the possibility of other theories but I don't think that it would be appropriate in this case. Rand is the Broken Wolf, whether it's a stretch to call him a wolf or not. I think the wolf bit was intended to be a red herring - without that, it would have been obvious to everyone that it was Rand. (It's still obvious to me, but I'm not everyone.)

 

Also, re: Aviendha's gateway: I've always thought that was just a plot hole. I enjoy reading plot hole theories - you know, the ones where people try to pretend it's not a plot hole - but usually they're just plot holes.

 

It's not even a plot hole. Aviendha's gateway is exactly explained in the mechanics of the story-when the girls (Nynaeve and Egwene) first show up at the Tower, they learn that one reason wilders aren't looked at kindly is that they've subconsciously discovered ways to weave things in a certain way that can't be unlearned-learning to make the same thing again results in weaving at less-than-full effectiveness. Aviendha stumbled onto how to make a gateway, with her own gesture, but couldn't remember it. Thus, when she learned the "kosher" method for making gateways, she doesn't do it as easily as Elayne or Egwene.

 

There's even a quote-might even be from ANS-where someone mentions that AS can name who taught certain weaves to AS by the gestures they use with them-they'll always use those gestures since that's how they learned the weave. There's also a conversation between Sorilea and Cadsuane about the Aes Sedai taken on as apprentices, and how they won't be able to learn how to use Wise One style weaves as effectively.

 

There's too many people who have jumped on this Aviendha Gateway Time Travel theory, and I NEVER picked up any hints of it from the books. It's pretty exclusive to the discussion forums.

Ah, that's a very reasonable explanation. You may be right on this. It's not that I subscribed to the time traveling theory exactly but I did think that since Aviendha weaves different weaves from the standard ones the results might be different as well.

[moratcorlm]

IMO, he's already toast. Taim has been looking for an excuse to kill him since Logain go to the BT. One of Logain's HANDPICKED supporters, who left the BT with him is back and was turned? He's pushing up daisies for sure.

How do you explain Min's viewings of Logain's great glory to come, then?

[yoniy0]

There's too many people who have jumped on this Aviendha Gateway Time Travel theory, and I NEVER picked up any hints of it from the books. It's pretty exclusive to the discussion forums.

Hmm, I've read an analysis on the old WoT FAQ once that indicated several oddities concerning time around that trip of the Wondergirls'. I wouldn't go so far as to claim it was compelling, but there was definitely something there. Coupled with RJ not laughing the theory away, well, who knows? I don't think this will ever become a major plot device, but it's curious.

[Terez]

The main problem with assuming that anyone else is the Broken Wolf is the prophesied reaction to his death. No one else would cause that reaction. Usually I grant for the possibility of other theories but I don't think that it would be appropriate in this case. Rand is the Broken Wolf, whether it's a stretch to call him a wolf or not. I think the wolf bit was intended to be a red herring - without that, it would have been obvious to everyone that it was Rand. (It's still obvious to me, but I'm not everyone.)

 

Also, re: Aviendha's gateway: I've always thought that was just a plot hole. I enjoy reading plot hole theories - you know, the ones where people try to pretend it's not a plot hole - but usually they're just plot holes.

 

It's not even a plot hole. Aviendha's gateway is exactly explained in the mechanics of the story-when the girls (Nynaeve and Egwene) first show up at the Tower, they learn that one reason wilders aren't looked at kindly is that they've subconsciously discovered ways to weave things in a certain way that can't be unlearned-learning to make the same thing again results in weaving at less-than-full effectiveness. Aviendha stumbled onto how to make a gateway, with her own gesture, but couldn't remember it. Thus, when she learned the "kosher" method for making gateways, she doesn't do it as easily as Elayne or Egwene.

Yes, we know that's why she has issues with gateways. The problem is the fact that it took them much longer to get around to using the Bowl than it took Mat to get trapped under that building, and we know the Seanchan attacked when they were using the Bowl. That's where the time travel thing comes from.

 

There's too many people who have jumped on this Aviendha Gateway Time Travel theory, and I NEVER picked up any hints of it from the books. It's pretty exclusive to the discussion forums.

Most things are.

[Entreri]

Few big issues have been resolved between books 8-13, that #14 battles will be too brief and I fear a lot will be off screen. Perhaps AmOL could be split in two.

 

I like that Avienhda time traveling gateway theory. It's fits with Nakomi (sp) being from the future and not some kind of TAR experience.

[Didgya]

This thread would be more interesting if people were coming up with amusing answers to the question instead of seriously talking about BT shenanigans.

 

"Logain is busy inventing the perfect margarita."

 

"Logain is taking dance lessons in Tarabon."

 

"Logain has been rehearsing for his Ghealdon Civil War Re-enactment with the 12th Boannda Infantry."

 

"Logain is touring with a group of players-ever since landing the role of Gaidal Cain, he couldn't be bothered to do anything else."

 

"Logain is smoking the Caralain Grass. If you know what I mean."

 

Ha ha,

Good one, thanks for reminding me that some people are more High minded readers

[Terez]

How about, Logain is spending his days trying out new kinks with Gabrelle (think of all the things they could do with the Power!) while Toveine does his laundry?

[griz]

I think Logain has been trying to figure out not only what is going on at the tower, but how to solve the problem. I think while the forces of light attempt to retake Caemelyn, Logain will have something for the black tower. Maybe they allowed their one friend to attempt to infiltrate directly so they could know for sure what was going on at the tower?

 

I think somebody else mentioned splitting this book into 2. I would have to agree. I'm not sure how we tie up the BT, Seanchan and other remaining plot threads and still have time to include many scenes that would make up a "last battle." They would then have to strike at SG, deal with Fain and have some aftermath scenes I would think. Sounds like a tall order for just one more book unless it's an encyclopedia. Just sayin.