[T+M Mafia] Chains of Blood: Crimson Tides - GAME OVER

[False Dragon]

WTF?

 

Thorum

[Hybrid]

 

Good luck.

[Toy and Minion]

Vote Count:

 

Limi (1): Talya

Thorum (1): False

[Little Miss]

When you fully revealed, I considered changing my mind about voting for you. Then you said your partner is Finder. Not only is it an incredibly scummy maneuver, it eliminates your partner from revealing in a last-ditch scenario which a Townie would definitely consider.

Vote Song

 

I've been back over things and the bit bolded is what I will mention. I actually think that the more she told the less likely it would be that she was scummy! Think about it, it would have been very hard indeed to pull off some kind of false finder claim, but to reveal her and someone else and both Finder roles...is a suicide mission. So actually what she revealled is quite pertinent to the town...it doesn't matter if she was the finder or not, but her death meant the death of the finder. So of course she should reveal. She didn't have much choice. But it wasn't as though we had time limits, so why vote for her, instead you could have discussed it more. There was no pressure, the only pressure here was on Song at this point!

 

 

I am going to unvote and vote Song.

 

Right now I am inclined to think that this was something you were almost hoping for, not to mention that even if you are town, you honestly aren't any help to them if you were willing to spill that much on your fellow masons

 

Here Limi, actually says that she might be town, well if you thought there was a possibility why did you make her L-1 because that role she had (and her partner was really valuable. Looks like you wanted her to go, and to say that it was her who was almost wanting it, More like you!

 

 

I have nothing to say that hasn't already been said, Song. Major boo-boo on your part, regardless of alignment.

 

UNVOTE

 

VOTE SONG

 

Again this "regardless of alignment" gets me. It there was any doubt then you shouldn't have voted, in fact you lynched her with that vote.

 

P.S. To whoever the finder actually is,

Please do not view me as I am innocent but read as guilty.

 

 

what was that all about Womby?? care to explain on that?

 

 

as to the Song situation. first off what you discribe is a lover/sibling relationship; why you wold mess up and call it a mason relationship is beyond me. you've been in enough games to know the difference. another thing is if you had to talk to your partner first before you addressed us, why isn't your partner defending you?? this seems odd and a reach by scum to scare votes off their lynch. especially the off handed way you say "oh btw i'm attached to the finder". so not only do you have the threat of lynch me lose another townie, but also now you want us to think your tied to the finder.

 

honestly, i've never seen a mod attach an important role like a finder to another player unless that finder is limited some how or theres a back up. the findr role is just too important to put it at risk like that, and the potential balance issues are way too great.

 

Song, you're a LLL.

 

I know Red you can be blinkered, but she said she was on a Mason team, that implies that she was in contact with that person, this makes it different from Lovers. how do you know what the Mod called their particular thing. She even said she had asked that person about what to say, again lovers usually DO NOT communicate off thread. So this part of you accusation stands out as an excuse to keep your vote on her. Actually because they are linked, she is as good as being the Finder as well as her own role. They might be two people but they die as one. Actually the Finder role is not in any more danger than a normal Finder. I would presume they were both Unnightkillable, or maybe the finder wasn't be she was, so that only meant she could go by lynch. If that is only way to get to them, best get them out of the way very quickly! Which is what happened here!

 

 

I figured that if Song was telling the truth or if we have a noob finder that I would get viewed tonight and I didn't want to have to miller claim after a guilty viewing. Furthermore, I really don't want a finder wasting a viewing on me when it could be used on scum.

 

And Song, mason implies town. If you really were neutral, I agree with Red that you should/would have said lover.

 

If you read the beginning the innocent help Daller and the guilty don't, when they die. So being neutral only means they would have no effect on him, probably because if they had an innocent slant, that would be two innocents that would go against Daller when they died! This made it fair and balanced!

 

 

I've given my idea to a few things that stood out to me, when I reread the last few pages. Out of those here, the top of my list are Limi and Meesh. What amazes me is the time between the first three Locke, Limi and Meesh, no one had much chance to get in there to save her!

 

so my vote will go on LIMI for now

 

 

Talya - if you deny that her half reveal and then full reveal in such a dramatic fashion to such outrageous terms didn't seem like a scummy last ditch effort then you haven't played mafia in a while.

 

I was honestly against her lynch because it formed in a stupid way over nothing, I ended up voting on her for reasons stated above after she kinda freaked out. She had a moment of panic and it came across as scummy.

 

Either way its easy for you to say you were righteous in this when you didn't vote and let her dig her own whole.

 

As to Locke and Meesh, I have no control over their votes. *shrugs*

[Locke]

My reasoning at the time was that claiming that her and her partner would die together and following it up with saying that her partner was Finder was scummy for two reasons: One, it painted a huge big red "X" across her back, and two, it prevented her partner from revealing, which to me would've seemed much more plausible. Also, the whole thing felt like it was being made up on the run, (starting with the half-reveal) and I didn't get giving the scum people so much information.

[Tigraine]

I wasn't here for Day 1 so I can say this as I had no option but to not be part of it.

 

Song stated that she was unNKable. She didn't give her "partners" name, maybe her partner wasn't unNKable. So there really wasn't a target on her back as far as the mafia went because the only way she could be killed was a lynch. I get that her reveal did seem off but I thought it was mafia 101 that when someone makes a claim like that then you take the time to look into it, not hurry up and lynch her. I'm really suspicious of those that were quick to jump on that bandwagon after that reveal. It seems like half of you didn't take the time to read everything and the other half just didn't care.

[WWWwombat]

False Dragon

[Aust]

You are a fan of voting without explanation, aren't you Wombat? Despite knowing full well that people will criticize you for that - you did that in Wes' last game as well - so why do it?

[WWWwombat]

Anything to get a reaction.

[False Dragon]

Plus I'm technically the new guy, and have the least to say in the matter, as my predecessor did not participate one iota.

 

Or maybe he's just not a fan of chats in dragon costumes.

[False Dragon]

I wasn't here for Day 1 so I can say this as I had no option but to not be part of it.

 

Song stated that she was unNKable. She didn't give her "partners" name, maybe her partner wasn't unNKable. So there really wasn't a target on her back as far as the mafia went because the only way she could be killed was a lynch. I get that her reveal did seem off but I thought it was mafia 101 that when someone makes a claim like that then you take the time to look into it, not hurry up and lynch her. I'm really suspicious of those that were quick to jump on that bandwagon after that reveal. It seems like half of you didn't take the time to read everything and the other half just didn't care.

 

100% Agree with this.

[Tigraine]

Wow! I'm shocked! Nobody ever agrees with me

[Thorum]

Well that was a rather exciting read.

 

For real? You guys lynched someone claiming a Finder-connection? Really? Wow. Hindsight's 20/20, though. Don't really know how I would have reacted since I'm seeing all this after the fact. But seriously. Wow.

 

Led, I understand those circumstances, and I feel for you. But...we only have what's on the thread to go by, so, it's a bit of a catch 22, if you get me. I think inactivity is used far too often for scum to hide, so it does you no favors, as I'm sure you know. Like I said, catch 22. My point is, I'm keeping my eye on you.

 

Limi did seem to flip flop on that one. It felt fairly legit, to me however.

 

Bear with me, this might sound strange (even though it's logical to me):

 

- Locke and Song are obviously related;

- We know they are;

- That's an advantage to all teams except the one with Locke and Song;

- We can only exploit that advantage by letting them both live through a few more days;

 

- aemon votes for Song. Making it 5-3 Song-Wombat. I don't see the lynchee not being one of them.

 

Which makes me first unvote, then vote for Wombat

 

First, I can understand this logic, mostly.

 

However, the "we know they are" part got me. Did we? How would we? And obviously we were wrong.

 

Reading this after knowing about Song and Nae, it feels more like a scum trying to push himself away from an innocent lynch.

 

I'm going to vote Thorum[/color].

 

You understand it. Glad to see at least SOMEone did.

 

Recheck the votecounts. I made them about equal in votes. It could have gone bothways.

 

And why would I not wanna vote for someone innocent had I been scum (which I aint, of course)?

 

Till then, partly in reprisal, partly because this reasoning makes little sense: Flase Dragon

 

This was typed before Wombat voted.

 

For referal, I have to leave to work:

I wasn't here for Day 1 so I can say this as I had no option but to not be part of it.

 

Song stated that she was unNKable. She didn't give her "partners" name, maybe her partner wasn't unNKable. So there really wasn't a target on her back as far as the mafia went because the only way she could be killed was a lynch. I get that her reveal did seem off but I thought it was mafia 101 that when someone makes a claim like that then you take the time to look into it, not hurry up and lynch her. I'm really suspicious of those that were quick to jump on that bandwagon after that reveal. It seems like half of you didn't take the time to read everything and the other half just didn't care.

[Thorum]

Looks like there's a problem with coloring...

 

False Dragon

[Talya]

Nothing like making an insult Limi, Playing little recently has nothing to do with it, YOU jumping on a claimed finder (because whatever you might say, that's what it was) stood out big time. Actually i was on her vote, early on to put a little pressure on,. not just her, but also to see what others did. I didn't even get chance to question her about her reveal, because you three had slammed her as dead within half an hour! now you may not all be working together, there is a good bet that one or more is scum! So don't even give me "if you didn't think that mafia tell" stuff, it's insulting! Which also makes you look even more guilty! You mDON'Y slam home a lynch on someone who has claimed Finder (and yes I know she didn't but her link did), you talk about it, something which you never gave chance. It looked like you didn't want anyone else to have the chance to change their vote.

 

She's only claimed just before all this as well. And as she said the only way to kill her would be to lynch her...something had to be done, didn't it? So you three did it!

[WWWwombat]

I don't like how you spun my post Talya. Song herself said she wasn't town, so I don't buy that she was a "neutral townie" or whatever you are trying to say. That being said, your points on the lynch are valid.

[Red2111]

I've been back over things and the bit bolded is what I will mention. I actually think that the more she told the less likely it would be that she was scummy! Think about it, it would have been very hard indeed to pull off some kind of false finder claim, but to reveal her and someone else and both Finder roles...is a suicide mission. So actually what she revealled is quite pertinent to the town...it doesn't matter if she was the finder or not, but her death meant the death of the finder. So of course she should reveal. She didn't have much choice. But it wasn't as though we had time limits, so why vote for her, instead you could have discussed it more. There was no pressure, the only pressure here was on Song at this point!

 

 

for me at least, it wasn't what she revieled but more of how she revieled it. if you look at her posts this is how it comes off as

 

"you guys don't want to lynch me"

 

"i'm a mason with a lover connection to another player and i'm a researcher. so lynch me and you lose another townie."

 

then in an off handed way she goes

 

"oh btw, my partner is the finder, so theres that."

 

"oh almost forgot, i'm also not NKable"

 

 

 

it's not word for word, but thats how it came off to me. like Locke said, it sounded like it was being made up on the spot. i agree the lynch went way too fast; i don't think anyone expected her to be hammered so quickly; and i agree it's good to discuss the claim rather than people hammer her like that; in hind sight i shoudl have pulled my vote off like i normally do when theres a reveal. but at the same time, Song wasn't comming off as anythign but scummy in the way she was handling pressure.

 

 

Here Limi, actually says that she might be town, well if you thought there was a possibility why did you make her L-1 because that role she had (and her partner was really valuable. Looks like you wanted her to go, and to say that it was her who was almost wanting it, More like you!

 

good points!!

 

 

Again this "regardless of alignment" gets me. It there was any doubt then you shouldn't have voted, in fact you lynched her with that vote.

 

another very good point.

 

 

I know Red you can be blinkered, but she said she was on a Mason team, that implies that she was in contact with that person, this makes it different from Lovers. how do you know what the Mod called their particular thing. She even said she had asked that person about what to say, again lovers usually DO NOT communicate off thread. So this part of you accusation stands out as an excuse to keep your vote on her. Actually because they are linked, she is as good as being the Finder as well as her own role. They might be two people but they die as one. Actually the Finder role is not in any more danger than a normal Finder. I would presume they were both Unnightkillable, or maybe the finder wasn't be she was, so that only meant she could go by lynch. If that is only way to get to them, best get them out of the way very quickly! Which is what happened here!

 

every lover or sibling team i've played on or modded, the lovers/siblings have had their own QT board or have been able to contact eachother through PM's. this one reason i had so hard of a time beilieving the silent partner "mason" excuse.

 

yes Song is a very smart player; my line of thinking was she was smart enough to mix up the names of the roles on purpose to give more credability to her claim; especially since i was finding her reactions and the way she was revealing to be scummy in itself.

 

 

 

First, I can understand this logic, mostly.

 

However, the "we know they are" part got me. Did we? How would we? And obviously we were wrong.

 

Reading this after knowing about Song and Nae, it feels more like a scum trying to push himself away from an innocent lynch.

 

I'm going to vote Thorum.

 

good catch on that FD, tbh i didn't understand his whole logic at all.

 

 

 

My reasoning at the time was that claiming that her and her partner would die together and following it up with saying that her partner was Finder was scummy for two reasons: One, it painted a huge big red "X" across her back, and two, it prevented her partner from revealing, which to me would've seemed much more plausible. Also, the whole thing felt like it was being made up on the run, (starting with the half-reveal) and I didn't get giving the scum people so much information.

 

^^ i second this,. Locke you explian it better than i could have.

 

 

 

I wasn't here for Day 1 so I can say this as I had no option but to not be part of it.

 

Song stated that she was unNKable. She didn't give her "partners" name, maybe her partner wasn't unNKable. So there really wasn't a target on her back as far as the mafia went because the only way she could be killed was a lynch. I get that her reveal did seem off but I thought it was mafia 101 that when someone makes a claim like that then you take the time to look into it, not hurry up and lynch her. I'm really suspicious of those that were quick to jump on that bandwagon after that reveal. It seems like half of you didn't take the time to read everything and the other half just didn't care.

 

but this was the last thing she revealed Tigs. and it was put in as an offhanded bit of info. to me, had she put her entire reveal all together instead of stringing it over multpile posts and half revealed when there was no pressure to reveal, it woudl have given her more credit.

 

but instead, like Locke said, it felt like it was being made up as she went.

 

 

 

And why would I not wanna vote for someone innocent had I been scum (which I aint, of course)?

 

because scum don't like to put all their eggs in one basket, it's best to spread out the votes. you know this thorum, so this statement pings me.

 

 

 

Nothing like making an insult Limi, Playing little recently has nothing to do with it, YOU jumping on a claimed finder (because whatever you might say, that's what it was) stood out big time. Actually i was on her vote, early on to put a little pressure on,. not just her, but also to see what others did. I didn't even get chance to question her about her reveal, because you three had slammed her as dead within half an hour! now you may not all be working together, there is a good bet that one or more is scum! So don't even give me "if you didn't think that mafia tell" stuff, it's insulting! Which also makes you look even more guilty! You mDON'Y slam home a lynch on someone who has claimed Finder (and yes I know she didn't but her link did), you talk about it, something which you never gave chance. It looked like you didn't want anyone else to have the chance to change their vote.

 

She's only claimed just before all this as well. And as she said the only way to kill her would be to lynch her...something had to be done, didn't it? So you three did it!

 

agreed 100%

 

 

 

as it's looking now, i'm good witha vote on Thorum or Limi. both are scummy imo, but enlight of what happened yesturday, and that we don't have a deadline, i'm staying my vote untl more info presents itself.

[Toy and Minion]

Oh, but we do have a deadline. Day 1 was the exception. Deadline is sometime late Monday. I say sometime because I don't know what my work schedule is going to be like.

[Toy and Minion]

Vote Count:

 

False (2): Wombat, Thorum

 

Limi (1): Talya

Thorum (1): False

 

With 15 Alive It Takes 8 To Lynch

[Talya]

Red, any games where I remember Lovers in it, I have never known them to be able to communicate off thread. I certainly have never done it like that.

 

I'm not saying what she did was necessarily the best way, and I'm sure we have all done things that weren't quite the best way and if we could change we would. however. She claimed something and the jump on her was so fast...she went from claiming to lynch in a matter of hours...That is not right at all. And those last three are the top of the list for the moment. I can't believe they are all innocent. And no amount of excuses will, in my eyes make what they did as a reasonable thing to do.

[aemonkristen]

What gets me is the complete 360 Limi made on the Song lynch. We were going at it most of the day and then she puts Song at L-1. Amittedly, there were very few people that believed the reveal, but she made a point of saying this (bolded is mine)

 

I am going to unvote and vote Song.

 

Right now I am inclined to think that this was something you were almost hoping for, not to mention that even if you are town, you honestly aren't any help to them if you were willing to spill that much on your fellow masons

 

I am interested in a couple of things here, first, why say "them" instead of "us"? Semantics, I know, but it stuck out to me. Secondly, if you believed she was town (they way I read this post you were unsure but leaning toward town on her) why didn't you wait or try to get people to unvote rather than putting her in a position to be hammered?

[Toy and Minion]

II

The Dance of Words

 

Fangs of ivory

Wings of ebony

Claws of the Earth

Talons of the Sky

Ever crying his question

To the Unfallen Moon

Ever keening her answer

To the heedless soil

Two lost souls

Bound for eternity

In the endless cycle

Love: their only sin

 

From The Wolf and the Hawk

by Starlan Kabeel, circa 1158 SR

 

The Asteri had made good on their word. Sidhe had passed them by and they would arrive at Alir that night. She was glad they had been asleep during the passing of Sidhe, for they had had to come too close to the island of Kyzet. She did not know if this trip could have handled Pirated on top of everything else.

 

The body of Esian Rinend had been found quickly that morning. Dallar had fallen once again into his drinking stupor, if he had been out of it. Anamira could not help but wonder at the sheer stupidity of man. But there was the growing concern of Assassins aboard the ship. She had been a soldier once, but she had given that life up for one of faith and service to the Three Gods, Anivesa, Agrime, and Ado. She did not know if she had it in her to be the leader of this voyage. That was what Dallar was supposed to do, the idiot.

 

She noticed her Adherent, Sorine had gathered a few listeners. The crew was searching for any kind of comfort after the three deaths that had transpired. Some had searched out the hand of faith.

 

Anamira had taken Sorine under her wing and the Adherent proved to be quite adept. She did have a streak of natural curiosity. Curiosity in the church was not a bad thing, but Sorine could carry it to the point of unorthodoxy. The Matron had sent her for punishment more than once. Still, with Anamira’s council, Sorine could become a Purveyor some day. Three above, she could see the child sitting among the Trinity.

 

“The Three Gods,” Sorine was saying, “Rule in a constant flux of cooperation and opposition with Ashvaen, with each other. Does anyone know the Forces?”

 

A man in the crown answered soflty, “Water, Air and Earth.”

 

“That is three of the Forces. What about the fourth?”

 

No one replied, looking confused.

 

“Anivesa, Agrime, Ado.” Sorine continued, “Earth, Water, Air.” She stood and held up her necklace. It was a smaller version of Anamira’s circlet. Three crescents forming a slightly clover-shaped circle. She pointed to the three crescents in turn. “The three are easily visible, the forth not so easily seen.” She poked her finger in through the center. “Fire. The core.”

 

The same man who answered before scratched his head. “If there are four Forces, why are there only three Gods?”

 

Sorine smiled and crouched down, laying a hand on the deck of the ship. “Ashvaen. Our world is the Fourth.”

 

“Why?”

 

Sorine looked confused by the question. “I…well…”

 

Anamira stepped in. “Because the Three created our world for that purpose. The purpose of balance.”

 

“Balance, you say?” Anamira turned to see Menden Atal striding forward. He had to be in his fifth decade, but his hair retained its golden shine. He smiled at her warmly. “The balance of what?”

 

“Everything.” She replied automatically.

 

He nodded, raising a finger to his chin. “Everything. Then answer this, Purveyor.” He raised his finger up to point in the sky “Where does the Unfallen Moon fall into this balance of yours?”

 

She looked up, despite herself. The Unfallen Moon hung up there like a pale reflection of the sun. Always there, never moving, even as you moved. Visible, as far as anyone knew, anywhere and everywhere. She looked back to the young old man. He wanted a dance of words. Very well.

 

“The Moon is the ultimate sign of the existence of the Three. Created to show man that they were among us, so that we may repent and save our souls from the chains of blood we have cast upon ourselves.”

 

“Why not reveal themselves to us face to face?” Menden mused.

 

“To test our faith.” She answered smoothly.

 

“Has faith not lost its meaning when Gods need to present such proof as the Unfallen Moon?”

 

“I…” she hesitated, trying to think.

 

“By reason, can we not see that if the Gods needed to present such a sign as the Unfallen Moon to man, would it not have been easier and more worthwhile to simply reveal themselves to us? And if not, then what was the true intention of the Unfallen Moon? Was it even created by the Gods?”

 

She struggled to find answers, but she had none.

 

The crowed began to mutter and disperse. Soon she was left alone with Menden and the Adherent. Menden had a beaming smile and bounces lightly on the balls of his feet. Turning to Sorine, “Adherent, leave with the blessings of the Three.” Sorine nodded, but eyed Menden thoughtfully before retreating.

 

“What was the meaning of this?” Anamira turned to him, flustered.

 

“Simply showing that faith has its limits, and can not be leaned upon as a crutch for things lost in the past.”

 

“What are you talking about?”

 

Menden’s smile changed, as if he knew a secret that was not so much a secret. Rather than answering her question, he turned to the nearby railing, leaning upon it and looking out into the sea. “Do not fret, Purveyor, I know the Three exist.”

 

That was a surprise. Anamira relaxed her shoulders and dropped her elbows onto the rail beside him. “I did not think you a follower of Saevor.”

 

He snorted in dismissal. “I’m not. I was never one for faith or religion. I know they exist because I have met them.”

 

“What?” Anamira did not think she could be startled further if the ship broke in half under her feet.

 

“Know ‘em and hate ‘em.” He gave her a wink before leaving her.

[WWWwombat]

unvote

 

Vote: Limi

 

I am also willing to vote meesh. Not sure about Locke atm.

[alannalynn]

Sorry, catching up... been distracted by evil weather and my internet was off since last night, I just got it back. I TRIED to get online with my phone earlier but I couldn't read anything. Evil evil DM.

 

First of all, I feel like the debate over Song's choice of words irritating. By discussing what you THOUGHT she meant, or what was wrong about her word choice, it just feels like you're trying to excuse yourself for voting her, or LEAVING her vote on her. In my opinion, just as bad as Thorum scolding everyone for voting her but in a different manner. Odd.

 

FD has a point about Thorum, it gave me a pause in my reread: how was is OBVIOUS that they were related, especially since, um, they weren't? Or perhaps you know who Locke is and would rather him be tied to Song than you? Curious indeed, you're one to watch for now.

 

Haha! Limi: "As to Locke and Meesh, I have no control over their votes" And YET, you followed Locke and voted after Song's reveal, did you not? One should very well be wary of voting even at the HINT of a finder. That coupled with your beginning of defense of Song, which thus turned into pushing for a reveal knocks you rather high up on my list for the moment.

 

And Red.... tl;dr, is there a cliffnotes version?

 

Conclusion: Limi, Locke, and Meesh are suspicious because of their last minute votes, which Talya has brought up SEVERAL times (along with her excuse for voting Song for activity), Thorum for his trying to link Locke to Song but I'm not really worried about that for now, so FOS Thorum. I'm more willing to vote Limi at the moment.

[Locke]

I wasn't here for Day 1 so I can say this as I had no option but to not be part of it.

 

Song stated that she was unNKable. She didn't give her "partners" name, maybe her partner wasn't unNKable. So there really wasn't a target on her back as far as the mafia went because the only way she could be killed was a lynch. I get that her reveal did seem off but I thought it was mafia 101 that when someone makes a claim like that then you take the time to look into it, not hurry up and lynch her. I'm really suspicious of those that were quick to jump on that bandwagon after that reveal. It seems like half of you didn't take the time to read everything and the other half just didn't care.

 

She didn't say she was unNKable until after the hammer.

 

Vote Limi