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A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

notes after rereading tEoTW


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The problem I have with the swords-woman being Egeanin is that the dream clearly states the woman is wearing her sword on her back and Egeanin does not, she wears it across her front in the style of a sailor as noted by Karede's POV in KoD when he comes to the Bands camp.

I very much doubt she would change this, you just don't change something you have always done, trained to do and are used to doing, especially when it comes to weapons.

 

No, I think it will be Tylee, she's the only female Seanchan we have seen with a sword on her back and we already know she is already wavering on whether the Empire should actually be at war with these new lands instead of making allies.

 

I used to collect swords, and I learned that there are 3 reasons you wear your sword over your shoulder than at your hip. You are too short, you are riding a horse, or you are in full armor. I might not have included all reasons, but those are the three that I know of. Egeanin is of a height with bale (though I don't know how tall that is, but you can't tell) Egeanin doesn't like horses, she's a shipwoman, but she has worn armor, though not full armor.

That's very interesting. I confess, I know absolutely nothing about swords and will have to take your word on this. It does lead to something that I never considered, namely, that the fact that this woman wears the sword on her back might be an indication of her being very short (and that could point to Tuon). I did find another quote to how Egeanin wears her sword and it's again across her chest (KoD, Ch25):

 

Leilwin, with a curved sword hanging from a broad leather strap that slanted across her chest,...

 

I still find it somewhat hard to believe that it will be Tylee. True, she is more disposed to make friends with Randlanders but she is hardly an independent operator. I don't really see her disobeying orders for example. But, yes, the position of the sword on the back does give me pause... And it would be nice if we knew for sure that there are no other reasons beside those three to wear a sword on your back. But as I said, I'll take your word on this.

Edited by herid
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The problem I have with the swords-woman being Egeanin is that the dream clearly states the woman is wearing her sword on her back and Egeanin does not, she wears it across her front in the style of a sailor as noted by Karede's POV in KoD when he comes to the Bands camp.

I very much doubt she would change this, you just don't change something you have always done, trained to do and are used to doing, especially when it comes to weapons.

 

No, I think it will be Tylee, she's the only female Seanchan we have seen with a sword on her back and we already know she is already wavering on whether the Empire should actually be at war with these new lands instead of making allies.

 

I used to collect swords, and I learned that there are 3 reasons you wear your sword over your shoulder than at your hip. You are too short, you are riding a horse, or you are in full armor. I might not have included all reasons, but those are the three that I know of. Egeanin is of a height with bale (though I don't know how tall that is, but you can't tell) Egeanin doesn't like horses, she's a shipwoman, but she has worn armor, though not full armor.

That's very interesting. I confess, I know absolutely nothing about swords and will have to take your word on this. It does lead to something that I never considered, namely, that the fact that this woman wears the sword on her back might be an indication of her being very short (and that could point to Tuon). I did find another quote to how Egeanin wears her sword and it's again across her chest (KoD, Ch25):

 

Leilwin, with a curved sword hanging from a broad leather strap that slanted across her chest,...

 

I still find it somewhat hard to believe that it will be Tylee. True, she is more disposed to make friends with Randlanders but she is hardly an independent operator. I don't really see her disobeying orders for example. But, yes, the position of the sword on the back does give me pause... And it would be nice if we knew for sure that there are no other reasons beside those three to wear a sword on your back. But as I said, I'll take your word on this.

 

I was a big fat nerd, and I had money, and a brother who had more money to feed my interests. BIG FAT NERD! Catch me over on the shadowrun website. Or the D&D one. BIG FAT NERD!

 

Athletic one, but still, Nerd.

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I didn't really cover Egwene's dream all that thoroughly in that article because the article was about the sword, not about that. Tylee is another option. Before TOM the female Bloodknife was an option, but they killed her, alas.

 

As for why Tuon would help Egwene, I suspect it will have something to do with the 'binding' bit. We will see.

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Let the arm of the Lord of the Dawn shelter us from the Dark, and the great sword of justice defend us. Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time.

 

I guess this a reference to Hawkwing's sword Justice that Rand now carries?

Funny, I just reread the book and this stuck out to me as well. I figured the same as you.

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I still find it somewhat hard to believe that it will be Tylee. True, she is more disposed to make friends with Randlanders but she is hardly an independent operator. I don't really see her disobeying orders for example.

 

I believe that between the tGS Prologue and chpt 19, they tell us everything we need to know about Tylee, how she thinks and where her ambitions lay by how highly Galgan regards her.

Tuon goes into great detail how Galgan thinks and how he puts the good of the Empire ahead of his own ambitions and standing.

I don't think it's a stretch to believe Tylee shares Galgan's mentality and views.

 

Tylee is already stretching the bounds of her station as it is in this scene by as Tuon sees it:

It was a bold statement. Tuon leaned forward, lacquered nails clicking on the armrests of her chair. Many of the low Blood would be so in awe at meeting one of the Empress's household, much less the Highest Daughter, that they would not dare speak.

Yet this woman offered suggestions?

In direct opposition to Tuon's published will?

 

Yep, I think it will be Mat, Tylee, Beslan and possibly Bethamin and Seta as well that finally changes Tuon's mind on a number of issues.

Edited by Finnssss
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I still find it somewhat hard to believe that it will be Tylee. True, she is more disposed to make friends with Randlanders but she is hardly an independent operator. I don't really see her disobeying orders for example.

 

I believe that between the tGS Prologue and chpt 19, they tell us everything we need to know about Tylee, how she thinks and where her ambitions lay by how highly Galgan regards her.

Tuon goes into great detail how Galgan thinks and how he puts the good of the Empire ahead of his own ambitions and standing.

I don't think it's a stretch to believe Tylee shares Galgan's mentality and views.

 

Tylee is already stretching the bounds of her station as it is in this scene by as Tuon sees it:

It was a bold statement. Tuon leaned forward, lacquered nails clicking on the armrests of her chair. Many of the low Blood would be so in awe at meeting one of the Empress's household, much less the Highest Daughter, that they would not dare speak.

Yet this woman offered suggestions?

In direct opposition to Tuon's published will?

 

Yep, I think it will be Mat, Tylee, Beslan and possibly Bethamin and Seta as well that finally changes Tuon's mind on a number of issues.

 

I looked up the description of Egeanin when she first introduced in TGH and there she does wear the sword on her back.

 

The first to climb up was one of the armored men, and Domon saw immediately why some of the villagers claimed the Seanchan themselves were monsters. The helmet looked very much like some monstrous insect’s head, with thin red plumes like feelers; the wearer seemed to be peering out through mandibles. It was painted and gilded to increase the effect, and the rest of the man’s armor was also worked with paint and gold. Overlapping plates in black and red outlined with gold covered his chest and ran down the outsides of his arms and the fronts of his thighs. Even the steel backs of his gauntlets were red and gold. Where he did not wear metal, his clothes were dark leather. The two-handed sword on his back, with its curved blade, was scabbarded and hilted in black-and-red leather.

 

Then the armored figure removed his helmet, and Domon stared. He was a woman.

 

Of course she is wearing armor in this scene but it does show that sometimes she wears the sword on her back. So I wouldn't rule her out based on the sword position. But Tylee is certainly a possibility.

 

Also, I have a hard time seeing Beslan playing a role in changing Tuon's mind. He seems to be converted into a loyal subject.

 

But I do agree about Mat, Bethamin and Seta. I think they will play a major role. Mainly, I think so because of the scene when they part ways and Mat sort of promises them that he will do so.

 

"Go with the Aes Sedai," Mat said. "I'll give you your own horses, so

you don't have to rely on them. Learn to channel. That'll be more use than dying. Maybe someday you two can convince Tuon of the truth. Help me find a way to fix this without causing the Empire to collapse."

The two women looked to him, more firm and confident, suddenly. "Yes, Highness," Bethamin said. "It is a good purpose for us to have. Thank you, Highness."

Seta actually got tears in her eyes! Light, what did they think he had just promised them?

 

While it's not an actual promise, Seta and Bethamin consider it one. That might be enough to bind Mat to it as he always keeps promises. Even if it's not a promise Mat always accomplishes what he sets out to do. I can't think of any endeavor in which he failed. he is just too lucky.

So the mere fact that he wants to do it IMO means that Tuon is doomed.

Edited by herid
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I still find it somewhat hard to believe that it will be Tylee. True, she is more disposed to make friends with Randlanders but she is hardly an independent operator. I don't really see her disobeying orders for example.

 

I believe that between the tGS Prologue and chpt 19, they tell us everything we need to know about Tylee, how she thinks and where her ambitions lay by how highly Galgan regards her.

Tuon goes into great detail how Galgan thinks and how he puts the good of the Empire ahead of his own ambitions and standing.

I don't think it's a stretch to believe Tylee shares Galgan's mentality and views.

 

Tylee is already stretching the bounds of her station as it is in this scene by as Tuon sees it:

It was a bold statement. Tuon leaned forward, lacquered nails clicking on the armrests of her chair. Many of the low Blood would be so in awe at meeting one of the Empress's household, much less the Highest Daughter, that they would not dare speak.

Yet this woman offered suggestions?

In direct opposition to Tuon's published will?

 

Yep, I think it will be Mat, Tylee, Beslan and possibly Bethamin and Seta as well that finally changes Tuon's mind on a number of issues.

 

I looked up the description of Egeanin when she first introduced in TGH and there she does wear the sword on her back.

 

The first to climb up was one of the armored men, and Domon saw immediately why some of the villagers claimed the Seanchan themselves were monsters. The helmet looked very much like some monstrous insect’s head, with thin red plumes like feelers; the wearer seemed to be peering out through mandibles. It was painted and gilded to increase the effect, and the rest of the man’s armor was also worked with paint and gold. Overlapping plates in black and red outlined with gold covered his chest and ran down the outsides of his arms and the fronts of his thighs. Even the steel backs of his gauntlets were red and gold. Where he did not wear metal, his clothes were dark leather. The two-handed sword on his back, with its curved blade, was scabbarded and hilted in black-and-red leather.

 

Then the armored figure removed his helmet, and Domon stared. He was a woman.

 

Of course she is wearing armor in this scene but it does show that sometimes she wears the sword on her back. So I wouldn't rule her out based on the sword position. But Tylee is certainly a possibility.

 

Also, I have a hard time seeing Beslan playing a role in changing Tuon's mind. He seems to be converted into a loyal subject.

 

But I do agree about Mat, Bethamin and Seta. I think they will play a major role. Mainly, I think so because of the scene when they part ways and Mat sort of promises them that he will do so.

 

"Go with the Aes Sedai," Mat said. "I'll give you your own horses, so

you don't have to rely on them. Learn to channel. That'll be more use than dying. Maybe someday you two can convince Tuon of the truth. Help me find a way to fix this without causing the Empire to collapse."

The two women looked to him, more firm and confident, suddenly. "Yes, Highness," Bethamin said. "It is a good purpose for us to have. Thank you, Highness."

Seta actually got tears in her eyes! Light, what did they think he had just promised them?

 

While it's not an actual promise, Seta and Bethamin consider it one. That might be enough to bind Mat to it as he always keeps promises. Even if it's not a promise Mat always accomplishes what he sets out to do. I can't think of any endeavor in which he failed. he is just too lucky.

So the mere fact that he wants to do it IMO means that Tuon is doomed.

 

I think egannin is the good pick, I thought she wore a shortsword, but I might have let the ebou dar depictions take hold. Also no, she wears over shoulder while armoured? YAY me and my dorky questions as a 19 year old kid.

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Better question. Why is the blade of a false Dragon called Justice? Was the name supposed to be ironic in some fashion?

 

No. 'Justice' is what Hawkwing named it after he defeated Amalasm in a duel. He captured Amalasm and provided escort for the AS that took him back to TV. He claimed the False Dragon's sword as a symbol of that victory and named it 'Justice' because from the point he took it up it would only deliver justice. But the main point is that it was named Justice and carried as a symbol of having defeated a false Dragon. I would say that fairly few in Randland would even remember that Justice was originally Amalasm's Sword.

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Better question. Why is the blade of a false Dragon called Justice? Was the name supposed to be ironic in some fashion?

 

No. 'Justice' is what Hawkwing named it after he defeated Amalasm in a duel. He captured Amalasm and provided escort for the AS that took him back to TV. He claimed the False Dragon's sword as a symbol of that victory and named it 'Justice' because from the point he took it up it would only deliver justice. But the main point is that it was named Justice and carried as a symbol of having defeated a false Dragon. I would say that fairly few in Randland would even remember that Justice was originally Amalasm's Sword.

 

 

I thought said duel was only a legend and purportedly never took place. It is also illogical due to Amalasan being a strong channeler and capable of winning such a duel in an instant. He was simply captured by Aes Sedai hiding behind Hawkwings charge, who shielded him and then dragged him off to Tar Valon no? Also didn't Hawkwing according to BWB always fervently deny that a duel took place?

 

 

I honestly would be interested in learning more about Amalasan. He seems the only interesting false Dragon. He literally had more success in gathering followers and people fanatically following him than Rand did. Which is kind of pathetic for Rand. BWB makes him sound like quite the character;

 

 

From internal evidence, he was an educated man, with a considerable knowledge of the Prophecies of the Dragon, but strangely for someone who jarred the world to its foundations, almost nothing is known about him. In FY 939 he was young, somewhere in his twenties, with dark, deep-set eyes and a mesmerizing gaze. He had a compelling presence, and it is said that he never addressed a body of people but they were in his hands. And that is all that is known of a man who shook the pillars of heaven.

 

Early in Free Year 939, while the snows still fell, Amalasan named himself the Dragon Reborn in Darmovan. He raised a banner which showed the ancient symbol of the Aes Sedai on a field of blue and called those who followed him the Children of the Dragon....

 

...He took both Balasun and Elan Dapor in less than a year after first proclaiming himself the ruler of Darmovan....During the next three years his conquests continued at an increasing rate as tens of thousands from many nations flocked to his banner. By FY 943 he had added Kharendor, Dhowlan, Farashelle, Shiota, Nerevan, Esandara, Fergansea, and Moreina to his holdings. The Stone of Tear was under siege, resisting only because as many as thirty Aes Sedai had taken refuge there when the rest of Moreina fell. The presence of those Aes Sedai in Tear, which has a history of distrusting channelers dating back to its founding after the Breaking, is of some interest in itself....Talmour and Khodomar were in danger of falling into Amalasan’s hands, and fierce fighting had begun in Masenashar, Dal Calain, and Aldeshar itself. In many cities not under his control, rioting mobs declared that he was the Dragon Reborn....

 

Caught by surprise, Amalasan’s forces came very near collapse in the first half-hour. Amalasan could have rallied them and turned the battle his way - he had done as much before - but Hawkwing and his horsemen drove straight for Amalasan’s banner, with them the Aes Sedai, and Amalasan was taken. (Given his ability to channel, stories of a man-to-man duel between him and Hawkwing must be discarded; Hawkwing himself always denied it.) Once the news began to spread, Amalasan’s army did collapse.

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