The Dragon Vs. The Amyrlin

[MasterAblar]

I think the one who has the best idea coming to this meeting is Darlin. From what I read I thought his stance was that they should discuss it before doing anything. In other words neither supporting or opposing Rand, just waiting for all the information before making his decision. In truth that should be how everyone stands at this meeting, and hopefully how they are standing (Perrin is an exception but he is ta'veren and a close friend to Rand). If they don't know everything how can they make an informed decision? So I am hoping that's what most of the different leaders stances on this matter are.

Egwene situation is different from the rest as she is the only one who Rand talked to about this. I can see why she would oppose the breaking of the seals right after meeting Rand. I would be more worried if she supported it right away. Its a gut reaction to oppose the breaking of the seals. Furthermore she is probably surprised by how Rand is acting. Rumors said that he was "temperamental, distrustful, arrogant" according to Siuan. At this point Egwene has nothing but rumors to go on so she should be pretty shocked by Rand acting all philosophical and. However nothing points to him being mad apart from him saying that the seals must be broken, which does sound rather mad without an explanation as to why. So her initial reaction is justified to me. What does disappoint me about her stance on this is that after:

-what Elayne and Nynaeve said to her in their "dream meeting"

-what the wise ones said just before that

-and what Nynaeve tells her (which should be just about everything she knows about Rand) after she returns to the White Tower

Egwene should be able to come to the conclusion that Rand has definitely changed somehow, and for the best. I don't expect her to guess what happened on Dragonmount but she should be able to guess that something has happened. So she should be able to think back on her meeting with Rand and seriously think about what he said, especially since he appeared to be completely truthful with her. At that meeting he told her, in answer to her question about which one he was (Lews Therin or Rand):

 

"I am both, Egwene. I remember him. Lews Therin. I can see his entire life, every desperate moment. I see it like a dream, but a clear dream. My own dream. It's part of me."

 

She at first dismisses this as madness but now that she knows that that is pretty unlikely after what she has been told about him from various people she trusts, she should think back on it a bit more. If he remembers Lews Therin's life, as impossible as that seems, it gives a good deal more credibility to what he says. She seems to have simply gotten into her head that he is wrong and nothing will change her mind on it. This could come from Two River stubborness, Aes Sedai arrogance, fear of breaking the seals, suspicion for men who can channel... She might simply have had other things on her mind though I should hope that this matter is pressing enough that she would be thinking about it quite a bit.

 

So my conclusion is that while she should not be supporting him (lack of information about what he intends to do), her stance could be a good deal more neutral than it is considering what she has been told.

[JohnathonOliva]

RAND all the way as far as i can see hes playing egwene like a harp and if she cant even come up with SOMETHING other than rand must not succeed then she definatly aint one to follow if things went her way all aes sedai would sit and twittle there thumbs and watch as the world starved and spend their time trying to make sure everyone listened to the big bad white tower at least rand has an idea

[Mandro]

I don't recall the exact question. It was an Indian guy, asking about whether Rand was based on some Indian deity, I don't recall which. I think the exact response, or at least very close, was, "There is some of that, certainly. Rand is in the tradition of Messiah figures broadly." Or something very close.

 

Are we really pretending that the interview database captures Jordan's every word? That's not true, and would be creepy if it was.

pretty much every hero is a messianic character. When the author uses direct references is what makes it interesting. I only see 3 direct markers. Oden, Thor and Tyr.

 

Then you are not reading closely enough. The stigmata is a pretty direct reference to Jesus.

 

I just want to add, that 90% of the forum favors rand over egwene.

 

We are all (well 90% of us) sexists :)

 

(yeah, I'm gonna milk that stupid joke for a little bit.)

 

How the hell did I overlook that? The branding of the palms, and the wound in his side "That is the one that will kill me." DUH! I was stuck in my own surprise at the completion of the norse trilogy.

 

Bad mandro! BAD!

[CoonDawg]

This whole argument over "plans" is, as many have said, how much time is left. That, I think, should be the argument.

 

I believe Elayne has to give birth before the end, since I would think she is going to participate, but from the stress the authors have been putting on the horrible state of everything, I would think it is only a matter of weeks. The other argument is judging by the current pace of the books. Even after Sanderson took over, only a small amount of time has passed over the last 2 books. Much of that, in fact, was catching everything else up to the main plot line. Can we really see 6-7 months pass in the final book without totally destroying any sense of fluidity?

 

I voted for Rand regardless, since Egwene has hardly presented a compelling argument (ie none) for her (nonexistent) plan, but if it really is a matter of weeks, then Rand is of course in the right. There is no time to plan, and something has to be done immediately. If, however, we still have months or even years, then Rand is still right, because he's simply forcing her to think up a plan for him. He's the bloody Dragon Reborn, why should he have to sweat the details? Let the self-proclaimed Servant to All allocate the resources.