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TGS help me out here!


Monte
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Well, I'm a little behind everyone else, as I was reading some other books, but I went back and reread all 11 books so I could finally start "The Gathering Storm". I've only read the first 100 pages, and already I'm feeling huge waves of commiseration, and regret over the loss of Robert Jordan. There is nothing to be done for that though. I will say I am glad of Brandon Sanderson being willing to take on the monumental task of finally finishing this series up, and he himself in the foreword seemed to be asking for a little patience.

 

I give as much patience as I can, and I realize how hard of a job it was for Brandon, but you all who have read books 12 and 13, did you find as many inconsistencies as I am currently struggling to come to terms with? I can name a few examples. When Egwene is attending Elaida, Elaida directly calls her a wilder. I believe Nyneave was the only one thought to be a wilder, I don't recall Elaida, in previous thought processes involving Egwene, referring to her in her thoughts as one. And when Elaida contemplates a 4th oath of fealty to the Amyrlin Seat, Egwene's rage over it didn't seem understandable to me, considering she basically had other sisters basically do the same for her.

 

Very next segment, Aviendha was told to do a useless task...and said that she felt she was almost treated as a "despised one" (da'tsang), yet from earlier books with Egwene and Aviendha both training as apprentices, that type of thing seemed to be common.

 

In an earlier segment, Mesaana was begging to rescue Semhirage? From what I saw of Mesaana in the previous books, that did not seem to be something that she (or any Forsaken) would have done, alliance or not. Never mind that the whole sequence (the whole 100 pages of reading I've done, in fact) seems to lack all of the feel of undercurrents, and thinking beyond the conversation that was in front of you that all of the Jordan books possessed.

 

I'm sorry to rant, I know you guys all came to grips with this a long time ago...or think I'm entirely nuts, but I really want to read the next three books to find out the ending, but it seems I'm pulling my hair out in frustration here. It's sad, because Sanderson clearly is trying his absolute best, but the only way I think would have been for 100 fans to proofread the damn books before publishing to eradicate every inconceivable misstep, yet that would have prolonged the much anticipated ending even further.

 

So how did you guys come to terms with it, the whole grieving the loss of RJ thing? Or does it get better? I am only 100 pages into TGS. Please advise!

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Elaida’s face was as cold as her voice. “I did not want you to be brought forward tonight. Not because I feared what happened; no one could foresee that. But because of what you are. A wilder.” Egwene tried to protest, but Elaida kept on, as implacable as a mountain glacier. “Oh, I know you learned to channel under Aes Sedai teaching, but you are still a wilder. A wilder in spirit, a wilder in ways. You have vast potential, else you would never have survived in there tonight, but potential changes nothing. I do not believe you will ever be part of the White Tower, not in the way the rest of us are, no matter on which finger you wear your ring. It would have been better for you had you settled for learning enough to stay alive, and gone back to your sleepy village. Far better.”

 

I'm no fan of Sanderson either, but I wish we could pick out better examples. The other two are better, though Aviendha's at least is justified if somewhat clumsily done. As for the fourth Oath, yeah, join the club, though most of us ascribe it to Egwene's extraordinary aptitude for cognitive dissonance rather than an authorial screw-up. I agree with this:

seems to lack all of the feel of undercurrents, and thinking beyond the conversation that was in front of you that all of the Jordan books possessed.
Though I'm not sure I'd include the first three Jordan books in that category. Edited by moratcorlm
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Sorry mate, didn't have the book in front of me, if you want me to, I can go back through and pick out all the examples. There seemed to be one every 2 pages of someone thinking or saying something that, had RJ done it, I couldn't have seen them saying, but I was just going with a few top of mind examples mostly from Chapter 1 only, not the prologue. Seems a little arduous, but I'll do it if you want, but even without it, I'm guessing you get my point?

 

I guess I'm hoping you'll tell me there is good yet to come, or reassurances that it's still worth the grind of reading...that the frustrations slow a little as you get further in the book...or am I going to feel this way for the whole read? I definitely thank you for the quote though from Jordan that definitely helped a bit!

Edited by Monte
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Oh, I don't disagree. A lot of people like TGS, though, even if I don't, so perhaps you'll change your mind. Even if you don't... I did think TOM was considerably better in some ways, small consolation though that may be.

 

Appreciate it, and I'm more likely to agree with you on this, I feel. Some of the other Robert Jordan fans I've talked to (real life, not forums) didn't seem to even understand half of what was going on, and they loved TGS as well. I was worried about it going in...maybe part of it is just negative attitude, but to me, part of it is that I don't think the other fans I've talked to really paid enough attention to even be able to point out an inconsistency if they saw one? I'm gonna go get the book and see if I can find a better example.

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Without spoiling things too much: there are some good, important, and sometimes surprising turns to the plot. I thought some of those scenes were handled pretty well, a number the prose really bugged me, enough to interfere with my suspension of disbelief, and a few I just thought were badly done in more than one way. A lot of the depth of WOT is going to be gone, which constitutes a return in some ways to the first trilogy but disappointed me, at least.

 

Some people who liked the book will doubtless be around to talk some more about the good points.

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That'll be good, mate. I could easily go point by point about what I didn't like and go through and find the "inconsistencies", but they are more based on Jordan's style...what HE would have had characters thinking and doing...like I feel Masema was handled badly, for example, his thought process being centered on the tradegy of his losses rather than revenge, which makes more sense to Jordan's style. Also the opening scene...Was kind of surprised the opening sequence didn't carry on with the message Nynaeve spread in the borderlands about joining in with Lan. Was also surprised the Forsaken would have trollocs attack the Seanchan uselessly I didn't get that, that may get explained later.

 

And why would Moridin ever send a live messenger, when in all the other books, other ways to send messages were employed? Especially given Moridin/Ishamael's use of zomara in the last book, KoD which clearly suggested he had little trust of servants that could actually remember messages. Was also saddened that Graendal, who is certainly always, always thinking never once thought about the lack of Cyndane or Aran'gar (Halima) being absent from the meeting. Jordan certainly would have thrown in the reason Graendal knew they weren't there, especially considering her alliance with Aran'gar. My thoughts about Mesaana were in the original post. Not necessarily inconsistencies, but just things that should have had more thought when Sanderson wrote the book.

 

In chapter 1, Rand flat out saying Egwene was Amyrlin and he was just a pawn to her. Yes, he may feel that way now, but in no other book would Jordan have had him say something like that without a detailed thought process.

 

Yeah I realize I am just nitpicking! As I said, Sanderson did his best and it was a tough task he was given with this one. As I said, it's just hard to come to terms with so far, but who knows once I get further in, maybe I'll get more used to the style.

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My advice to you is to just hang in there and finish the book first. Yes there are inconsistencies, yes there are stylistic differences and yes some characters act out of character. But overall these are minor things in the grand scheme of things. I too was perturbed early on in tGS but by the end of the book I had come to accept these things. :smile:

Edited by Medo Farstrider
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Well, I'm a little behind everyone else, as I was reading some other books, but I went back and reread all 11 books so I could finally start "The Gathering Storm". I've only read the first 100 pages, and already I'm feeling huge waves of commiseration, and regret over the loss of Robert Jordan. There is nothing to be done for that though. I will say I am glad of Brandon Sanderson being willing to take on the monumental task of finally finishing this series up, and he himself in the foreword seemed to be asking for a little patience.

 

I give as much patience as I can, and I realize how hard of a job it was for Brandon, but you all who have read books 12 and 13, did you find as many inconsistencies as I am currently struggling to come to terms with? I can name a few examples. When Egwene is attending Elaida, Elaida directly calls her a wilder. I believe Nyneave was the only one thought to be a wilder, I don't recall Elaida, in previous thought processes involving Egwene, referring to her in her thoughts as one. And when Elaida contemplates a 4th oath of fealty to the Amyrlin Seat, Egwene's rage over it didn't seem understandable to me, considering she basically had other sisters basically do the same for her.

 

Very next segment, Aviendha was told to do a useless task...and said that she felt she was almost treated as a "despised one" (da'tsang), yet from earlier books with Egwene and Aviendha both training as apprentices, that type of thing seemed to be common.

 

In an earlier segment, Mesaana was begging to rescue Semhirage? From what I saw of Mesaana in the previous books, that did not seem to be something that she (or any Forsaken) would have done, alliance or not. Never mind that the whole sequence (the whole 100 pages of reading I've done, in fact) seems to lack all of the feel of undercurrents, and thinking beyond the conversation that was in front of you that all of the Jordan books possessed.

 

I'm sorry to rant, I know you guys all came to grips with this a long time ago...or think I'm entirely nuts, but I really want to read the next three books to find out the ending, but it seems I'm pulling my hair out in frustration here. It's sad, because Sanderson clearly is trying his absolute best, but the only way I think would have been for 100 fans to proofread the damn books before publishing to eradicate every inconceivable misstep, yet that would have prolonged the much anticipated ending even further.

 

So how did you guys come to terms with it, the whole grieving the loss of RJ thing? Or does it get better? I am only 100 pages into TGS. Please advise!

 

I think the fact that RJs wish of the story being completed is in a way a small [cant think of the right word] and also the ammount of interraction between Brandon and the fans has done the whole situation a lot of justice without stepping over any lines, so to speak.

 

Two things on your above comments though. Regarding Elaida calling Egwene a Wilder, well. Elaida has been compromised, you have already seen this but it was in TGH. Fain corrupts, and I think something went on with Elaida to make her not her normal self. Not that thats an excuse for everything, but thats how I see it. All Im guna say is Elaida doesnt just say Egwene is a Wilder. Also, with Aviendhas pointless task, you will see. I cant say anything more than that on it, but you WILL see.

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on the 4th oath, there is a definite difference in blackmailing some sisters into doing what is "right" and requiring an oath on an oathrod. The first can be easily gotten out of by accepting the consequences of their actions - the second kills you if you avoid doing it - literally.

Especially since Eg has, at the point she extracts the oaths, accepted the Aiel ways of accepting consequences, I believe she internalizes it as meeting toh, or could easily do so if she thought about it.

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My advice, gloss over the minor inconsistencies (Mat being the hardest to come to grip with, he's much better in book 13) and enjoy the story, which for the first time in many books, actually progresses at a very quick rate.

 

This is because - and Brandon has confirmed this - 80% of Mat's scenes in TOM/Book 13 were written by Jordan, not Sanderson. ... I'm not trying to detract credit from Sanderson (I like him, and actually enjoyed TGS), but, I feel the truth on this particular subject should be known).

 

 

 

- Fish

Edited by The Fisher King
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lol thanks for all the level headed responses, I was worried you all were gonna take my head off for that negativity. Do what you gotta do to see what happens by the end of the series, at least we all know RJ wrote the full ending, however long it is, as well!

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