DO's prison and Paaran Disen

[crm2442]

Was the giant white sphere (Can't remember the name) above Paaran Disen actually the DO's prison, or just a "focus" like the seals?

 

If it is actually his prison, two things:

 

1 Why did they build the greatest city in the world under it

2 Is Shayol Gul actually where Paraan Disen was? The Aiel in tSR where moving east, couldn't go north, then went south.

 

On the other hand, LTT went to Shayol Gul to seal the bore, not Paaran Disen.

[fikkie77]

The prison is outside the Pattern. The bore is located in Shayol Ghul because that's where the Pattern is at its thinnest. I don't remember whether Mierin and Beidomon were in Paaran Disen, but I would think they were in Shayol Gul (a lovely island). The destruction of the Collam Daan was a backlash of the boring into the prison, just like the tainting of Saidin was of the resealing.

 

Even if the prison would have been inside the sphere, the Aes Sedai reseachers couldn't have known. They didn't know there was a Dark One and didn't know that newlt found source was the True Power from the Dark One.

[Werthead]

Was the giant white sphere (Can't remember the name) above Paaran Disen actually the DO's prison, or just a "focus" like the seals?

 

If it is actually his prison, two things:

 

1 Why did they build the greatest city in the world under it

2 Is Shayol Gul actually where Paraan Disen was? The Aiel in tSR where moving east, couldn't go north, then went south.

 

On the other hand, LTT went to Shayol Gul to seal the bore, not Paaran Disen.

 

 

The white sphere was the Sharom, a special kind of labratory suspended above the ground by anti-gravity technology. The Sharom was attached to the Collam Daan, one of the finest universities in the world during the Age of Legends. This wasn't in Paaran Disen but was located in the university city of V'saine. The Sharom is where Beidomon and Mierin (Lanfear) ran their experiment that breached the Dark One's prison (located outside of time and space), as they had detected an undivided source of the Power and thought they could tap it (presumably the Dark One's prison or the True Power, or both). The backblast created the Bore, destroyed the Sharom and killed Beidomon, though Mierin survived. The resulting 'thinness' in the Pattern that allowed the Dark One to touch the world did not manifest in V'saine for some reason, but at a remote island which became Shayol Ghul.

 

Paaran Disen, the world capital, was a completely different city located some distance away. It was not destroyed until the Breaking of the World, though it suffered damage during the War of the Shadow.

[crm2442]

Ok thanks!

[Luckers]

One small addendum, Beidomon also survived the drilling of the bore, but couldn't deal with the guilt and commited suicide sometime during the Collapse.

[Aquarius]

How is it even possible that Beidomon and Lanfear could SENSE that there was something to tap here ? How could they sense something that was out of space and time ? I still don't get that part. Since they were scientists, I suppose it was the result of some experiment of theory, but what tipped them off ???

[Luckers]

They went looking for it because of the division between saidin and saidar. The point of the experiment was to find a power-source outside the wheel which could overcome the dicotomous relationship of saidin and saidar. They found it, they just didn't realise the power belonged to someone.

[dscott8]

How is it even possible that Beidomon and Lanfear could SENSE that there was something to tap here ? How could they sense something that was out of space and time ? I still don't get that part. Since they were scientists, I suppose it was the result of some experiment of theory, but what tipped them off ???

 

DARK ONE: Here's a couple of curious children! I'll dangle a pretty under their noses and maybe they'll break me out in the process of chasing it.

[fikkie77]

One small addendum, Beidomon also survived the drilling of the bore, but couldn't deal with the guilt and commited suicide sometime during the Collapse.

That's new to me, do you have a source?

[moratcorlm]

Week 12 Question: Who was Beidomon, who helped Lanfear with the project that lead to the drilling of the Bore? Did he figure in the later events at the end of the Age of Legends?

Robert Jordan Answers: Beidomon was a male Aes Sedai, and a research genius, who believed that they were onto something great. The drilling of the Bore itself caused great damage, and Beidomon, Lanfear and others involved were blamed for that. Once it became clear what had actually happened, the opprobrium increased, and Beidomon sought obscurity, finally committing suicide when he was unable to achieve it. Everyone knew his name, and what he had done. He had nowhere to hide.

Interview database: The Age of Legends

[Aquarius]

DARK ONE: Here's a couple of curious children! I'll dangle a pretty under their noses and maybe they'll break me out in the process of chasing it.

Sorry, but this doesn't answers my question (at least not in a way I understand). the DO is out of SPACE and TIME, out of the PATTERN out of the WHEEL. All these things are what makes all the universe as far as Mierin and Beidomon are concerned. "feeling" there's something else to tap means this "something else" has an interaction with space and time and the wheel ... There _should_ be no way at all for them to even guess at another power source somewhere, there shouldn't be any hint at all nowhere whatsoever. In their point of view absolutely nothing leads them to this in any way.

[Agitel]

DARK ONE: Here's a couple of curious children! I'll dangle a pretty under their noses and maybe they'll break me out in the process of chasing it.

Sorry, but this doesn't answers my question (at least not in a way I understand). the DO is out of SPACE and TIME, out of the PATTERN out of the WHEEL. All these things are what makes all the universe as far as Mierin and Beidomon are concerned. "feeling" there's something else to tap means this "something else" has an interaction with space and time and the wheel ... There _should_ be no way at all for them to even guess at another power source somewhere, there shouldn't be any hint at all nowhere whatsoever. In their point of view absolutely nothing leads them to this in any way.

 

Outside of space and time? I know he's outside the Pattern, but where've we heard anything about being outside of space and time? I mean, maybe, but we haven't heard that. And scientists in the Age of Legends could step outside of the Pattern into 'vacuoles', contained areas where the Pattern couldn't touch them, and where loads of research was done. Given their highly advanced scientific technology and use of (dare I use the word?) magic, they were able to come up with ways to search for such things and detect it? How specifically? I don't think we'll ever know, and it may be a point of wonder, but I don't think it's super surprising.

[Luckers]

DARK ONE: Here's a couple of curious children! I'll dangle a pretty under their noses and maybe they'll break me out in the process of chasing it.

Sorry, but this doesn't answers my question (at least not in a way I understand). the DO is out of SPACE and TIME, out of the PATTERN out of the WHEEL. All these things are what makes all the universe as far as Mierin and Beidomon are concerned. "feeling" there's something else to tap means this "something else" has an interaction with space and time and the wheel ... There _should_ be no way at all for them to even guess at another power source somewhere, there shouldn't be any hint at all nowhere whatsoever. In their point of view absolutely nothing leads them to this in any way.

 

 

Why should there be no way for them to sense things outside the Wheel? Yes, space and time define the functional existence of reality within the wheel, but that the Dark One exists shows there is... 'matter/reality/substance/whatever'... outside the wheel. That that 'matter/reality/substance/whatever' is not of the laws of physics within the Wheel doesn't mean it can't be detected by people within the wheel, it just means it won't obey the natural laws of the Wheel--which indeed it does not.

 

As for 'nothing to lead them'... There are physicist today looking for the existence of 'exotic particals'. It is the nature of science to look for the unknown. Seek and you shall find, and all that. They sought... and they found.

[Aquarius]

Why should there be no way for them to sense things outside the Wheel? Yes, space and time define the functional existence of reality within the wheel, but that the Dark One exists shows there is... 'matter/reality/substance/whatever'... outside the wheel. That that 'matter/reality/substance/whatever' is not of the laws of physics within the Wheel doesn't mean it can't be detected by people within the wheel, it just means it won't obey the natural laws of the Wheel--which indeed it does not.

 

As for 'nothing to lead them'... There are physicist today looking for the existence of 'exotic particals'. It is the nature of science to look for the unknown. Seek and you shall find, and all that. They sought... and they found.

I guess I'll have to accept that first paragraph as a valid, albeit unexplained anwser. It's the kind of plot twist that says "let's just let it be as is and move on".

 

The analogy with research is pretty much flawed in the sense that those who experiment have "something" to work with (while Mierin and Beidomon went out of their way to find something), and physics theorists build experiment (looking for exotic particles, as you call it) to validate/unvalidate models built uppon existing evidence/proven theory, they don't look in the dark. But I see your point and I guess it is also valid so I won't argue further.

[Luckers]

The analogy with research is pretty much flawed in the sense that those who experiment have "something" to work with (while Mierin and Beidomon went out of their way to find something), and physics theorists build experiment (looking for exotic particles, as you call it) to validate/unvalidate models built uppon existing evidence/proven theory, they don't look in the dark. But I see your point and I guess it is also valid so I won't argue further.

 

And how do you know Mierin and Beidomon did not build their theories on existing evidence? Both were accredited researchers, and the Age of Legends Aes Sedai knew of the existence of other realities within the Wheel--I don't see it being a huge deductive leap for them to be examining the possibility of things outside the Wheel either, ultimately leading to the line of study that led to the detection of the Dark One's power.

 

I'm also reminded here of the Michealson-Moreley experiment into the existence of the aether here. The aether was a theoretical medium for light to travel through in space. There was no evidence for its existence (indeed, ultimately it was proven not to exist) but researchers looked into it anyway based solely on the correlation that other waves like soundwaves needed a medium through which to travel. Light ultimately does not--and that's what I meant above when I said 'all it meant that the True Power was outside the Wheel was that it would not obey the natural laws'. The aether were outside the bounds of our knowledge, hypothesized only through the existence of other mediums, but that did not mean it could not be researched. The True Power is much the same. Hypothesized through the existence of other powers, examined by skilled researchers until answers were found.

 

I mean what Mierin and Beidomon did was literally the nature of theoretical research.

[Aquarius]

I mean what Mierin and Beidomon did was literally the nature of theoretical research.

Totally agree.

 

I just questioned how the hell could Mierin and Beidomon could ever come to hypthesize the existence of other powers because the set of natural laws (pettern, wheel, One power, ...) was supposed to be enough by itself. But researchers beeing what they are (oh my god, I almost turned into one a few years ago :) ) I accept that idea completely.